Anyone pick up a 450FX yet?



951 replies to this topic
  • blbills

Posted March 08, 2016 - 07:11 PM


Anyone have some good power tune setups to tame this beast? Just got the tuner and an going to try the "smooth linear/slippery condition" to start out with.

  • SurvivorMan

Posted March 09, 2016 - 04:34 PM


This may belong in the suspension forum, but thought I'd ask some fellow 450FX owners... I'm 6'3" 260 lbs. Running a 6.3 shock spring and 5.2 fork springs with stock valving. I'm in Missouri which has tight, rocky, rooty single track. Since my springs are a lot stiffer than stock, what would y'all suggest as good clicker starting points? I'm pretty happy with it now, but want to experiment a little with a new suggested baseline, then adjust from there. The forks work great when I hit a single rock, but when I hit multiple rocks, they feel harsher, even if the rocks are the same size. Also, when in mid corner and exiting the corner, if I hit rocks, the front end becomes upset and almost wants to washout if I don't stab my foot. The tire will basically want to "hop" to the outside of the corner.

 

As for the shock, it feels pretty good as well but similar to the fork, it's not as plush when hitting multiple rocks. It also wants to kick straight up pretty good when hitting a log.

 

 

Also, what sag do you recommend? I think my spring may be a bit light as I'm at 110/26 although it feels pretty darn good in the corners and overall balance. I do have to put more weight then normal on the front when climbing hills or it'll want to somewhat loop out unless I feather the clutch.

 

I'm in the same boat...6'3" at 230 lb, looking for proper spring sizes and then setting up the clickers.  Like Greyracer says, the rebound is always the first setting to play with once the heavy guys put their big springs in.  go 4 clicks out on rebound, then go to 4 clicks in from stock to feel the difference and then fine tune from there.

I'm looking at getting a set of 50's for the fork springs and then a 6.5 for the shock spring...so that being said, I think you are under sprung on the shock.  Remember, your shock spring plays a huge role in how the forks work, so my best advice would be to go to a 6.7 shock spring first and see where that puts you.

 

Anyone have luck finding an aluminum skid plate and radiator braces?



  • jwilson32

Posted March 09, 2016 - 05:26 PM


Thanks for the feed fellas, great info. I ended up ordering some springs from Diverse Suspension. Very helpful and informative. I went with a 6.8 and 5.4 springs. I'm going to try them with the stock valving then maybe try my hand at a revalve or send it off.

As for a skid plate, they have one on the GYTR website or I'd think one for the YZ450F would work?... Not sure though. Unibiker has awesome rad guards!

  • jwilson32

Posted March 09, 2016 - 05:29 PM


Unabiker that is... :)

  • cubera

Posted March 09, 2016 - 09:20 PM


So the 450FX is now broken-in and running strong. I'm using the hard pack linear mapping and it works great. I like this mapping because it suits my preferred style of lower revs short shifting momentum riding and does not tire me out as quickly. Power is massive and very linear pulling the 14/48 gearing nicely. I don't know how fast it will go but it seems 100MPH is in reach.

 

An OEM fan is on and an FMF Hex w/sparky. Fork springs are now .50 from the stock .44 and the rear spring is up from 5.4 to 6.0. Sag is 106mm. I'm 240# and might need to go up on the spring rates a tad but maybe not. Valving is Precision Concepts. More seat time is needed on these boingers before I decide. For sure this set-up is vastly improved from stock but not as good as my YZ250X (yet).

 

The bike off the showroom floor is very harsh and not well suited to rocky desert terrain. The motor is flawless, however, with useable power everywhere mated to a wide ratio box that is flawless. It is beyond perfect. Clutch works great sans some typical moaning because of the judder. Pull is one finger and it is smooth as silk all the way through and it does not fade.

 

This machine is quite nimble for a 450F. The starter is perfect. It will easily start in gear (it has a Shorai also). Once the 2.5 gallon IMS goes on it it'll be race-able in a wide variety of venues including MX.

 

The YZ450FX is typical Yamaha fit and finish. It is a stunningly gorgeous piece of art and technology. Maintenance is very easy. I'm expecting industry leading reliability and durability like just about any Japanese dirt bike aficionado has grown accustomed to.

 

Aftermarket items are available and OEM parts should be easy to find since most interchange with the YZ450F.

 

It is very much like an overgrown 250FX but not quite a nimble. It feels more substantial and better planted than the 250FX to me and, of course, the YZ450FX motor is simply heavenly. It will spoil you very quickly. I have the tuner and will play with mapping a little....maybe.

 

If I had to complain it would be the stock suspension is not suited to desert terrain. A ride buddy of mine has a 450FX also and will say the same thing. Suspension needs a re-work for rides in the Arizona desert. Another problem is the 2 gallon fuel tank. It'll do 50 miles of trail but another 1/2 gallon changes the pit strategy considerably for the better.

 

In summary.....buy one and ride the piss out of it. You won't be sorry.


Edited by cubera, March 10, 2016 - 07:02 AM.


  • Monk

Posted March 09, 2016 - 09:23 PM


So the 450FX is now broken-in and running strong. I'm using the hard pack linear mapping and it works great. I like this mapping because it suits my preferred style of lower revs short shifting momentum riding and does not tire me out as quickly. Power is massive and very linear pulling the 14/48 gearing nicely. I don't know how fast it will go but it seems 100MPH is in reach.

An OEM fan is on and an FMF Hex w/sparky. Fork springs are now .50 from the stock .44 and the rear spring is up from 5.4 to 6.0. Sag is 106mm. I'm 240# and might need to go up on the spring rates a tad but maybe not. Valving is Precision Concepts. More seat time is needed on these boingers before I decide. For sure this set-up is vastly improved from stock but not as good as my YZ250X (yet).

The bike off the showroom floor is very harsh and not well suited to rocky desert terrain. The motor is flawless, however, with useable power everywhere mated to a wide ratio box that is flawless. It is beyond perfect. Clutch works great sans some typical moaning because of the judder. Pull is one finger and it is smooth as silk all the way through and it does not fade.

This machine is quite nimble for a 450F The starter is perfect. It will easily start in gear (it has a Shorai also). Once the 2.5 gallon IMS goes on it it'll be race-able in a wide variety of venues including MX.

The YZ450FX is typical Yamaha fit and finish. It is a stunningly gorgeous piece of art and technology. Maintenance is very easy. I'm expecting industry leading reliability and durability like just about any Japanese dirt bike aficionado has grown accustomed to.

Aftermarket items are available and OEM parts should be easy to find since most interchange with the YZ450F.

It is very much like an overgrown 250FX but not quite a nimble. It feels more substantial and better planted than the 250FX to me and, of course, the YZ450FX motor is simply heavenly. It will spoil you very quickly. I have the tuner and will play with mapping a little....maybe.

If I had to complain it would be the stock suspension is not suited to desert terrain. A ride buddy of mine has a 450FX also and will say the same thing. Suspension needs a re-work for rides in the Arizona desert. Another problem is the 2 gallon fuel tank. It'll do 50 miles of trail but another 1/2 gallon changes the pit strategy considerably for the better.

In summary.....buy one and ride the piss out of it. You won't be sorry.


Sounds like your spring rates are too soft...

  • RMK800

Posted March 09, 2016 - 09:34 PM


Your right on with the suspension. Make sure you get your sag right and especially your static sag. Here is what I found out. I weight around 185, probably around 195 with gear. When I set my sag to 105 my static sag was set to 18mm. I kept it like this, but the bike seemed firm and was not working as well. Plus the rear seemed high. I knew I was messing up the pre-load/rebound on the shock. So I went from the stock 5.6 and found a fairly cheap 2015 YZ450 5.8 spring. I put this on. After I was done, I got perfect numbers 105 and 30m static sag. Atleast that is what I have read where you want your numbers. One thing i noticed right away is the bike seemed lower in the rear, I wasn't putting that pre-load on the spring. I felt like the bike was lowered a half inch or so. I also moved my forks 4mm up in the triples. After riding it with this setting, I couldn't believe how much better the bike felt. It was day and night. I finally understood the negative impacts of having to much pre-load on a shock is and making sure you get the right spring for your weight. Get your numbers right and you'll love this suspension.

Edited by RMK800, March 09, 2016 - 09:54 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted March 09, 2016 - 10:13 PM


Cubera, how does the power compare to a FI WR450F ? (2012-2015) and a stock 2014 YZ450F ?  Somewhere in between ?

 

How much less nimble is it in tight conditions compared to the 250FX ?  A little ?  A lot ? Does it like to fall over in turns ?  Is it top heavy ?  How does it turn compared to other Yamaha bikes ?



  • cowboyona426

Posted March 10, 2016 - 06:48 AM


Once the 2.5 gallon IMS goes on it it'll be race-able in a wide variety of venues including MX.

 

Please post up some pics when you get the tank on.


Edited by cowboyona426, March 10, 2016 - 06:49 AM.


  • cubera

Posted March 10, 2016 - 07:08 AM


Sounds like your spring rates are too soft...

 

I'm right on the edge of under-sprung no doubt. I prefer lighter springs over heavier in most situations and once I get some of my lard ass reduced it might work out OK. Having said that, this suspension comes off the 250FX and is working pretty great for now. When it goes in for service I might re-spring and re-valve but the jury is still out. I ride lots of hours on teeth chattering rocky ugly stuff and the suspension has to work right in these conditions......don't need supercross suspension:)



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  • cubera

Posted March 10, 2016 - 07:10 AM


Please post up some pics when you get the tank on.

 

I won't get the tank for a few weeks. Imagine the stock tank in natural color without the front part of the seat over the fill cap (that will come off). There you will see a dry break fill.



  • Monk

Posted March 10, 2016 - 07:25 AM


I won't get the tank for a few weeks. Imagine the stock tank in natural color without the front part of the seat over the fill cap (that will come off). There you will see a dry break fill.


I wonder if it comes back any farther though...

  • cubera

Posted March 10, 2016 - 07:30 AM


Cubera, how does the power compare to a FI WR450F ? (2012-2015) and a stock 2014 YZ450F ?  Somewhere in between ?

 

How much less nimble is it in tight conditions compared to the 250FX ?  A little ?  A lot ? Does it like to fall over in turns ?  Is it top heavy ?  How does it turn compared to other Yamaha bikes ?

 

Good questions....you're making me scratch my head in thinking how to answer them. As you know, I absolutely loved the motor on the 2013 WR450F but without YZ cams it would never be a hard hitting motocross engine. Nonetheless it has to be one of the all time best 450F enduro motors ever produced. It will be sad to see the 2012-2015 line replaced. Good news is that everything good about it is retained in the 450FX. The 450FX also has everything good from the 2014 YZ450F gen 4 motors. It will run just like a YZ450F because that's what it is. It is very tunable from hard hitting explosive scary fast to mellow and linear. It is hard to stall, has power everywhere, no lags or early sign off, or flame outs. It is very predictable the way I'm running it with the linear torque hard pack mapping.

 

It feels better planted and more stable to me than the 250FX. It is more sluggish in tight turns and tends to push or wash out a little easier in tight turns. I'm thinking much of this is correctable with technique and suspension. It feels very light for its reported #264 curb. If I were doing tight one track more I would prefer the 250FX. At speed in the open desert the 450FX rules. Each of these bikes will spoil you in different ways.

 

So I've had the opportunity to spend about 40 hours on the 250FX, 40 hours on the 250X, and now about 10 hours on the 450FX. I wish I could keep them all.



  • cubera

Posted March 10, 2016 - 07:33 AM


I wonder if it comes back any farther though...

 

Back towards the battery? Not much room there. I don' where the extra volume is found but I'm thinking it is probably a little lower and wider.



  • Not sponsored

Posted March 10, 2016 - 07:39 AM


Your right on with the suspension. Make sure you get your sag right and especially your static sag. Here is what I found out. I weight around 185, probably around 195 with gear. When I set my sag to 105 my static sag was set to 18mm. I kept it like this, but the bike seemed firm and was not working as well. Plus the rear seemed high. I knew I was messing up the pre-load/rebound on the shock. So I went from the stock 5.6 and found a fairly cheap 2015 YZ450 5.8 spring. I put this on. After I was done, I got perfect numbers 105 and 30m static sag. Atleast that is what I have read where you want your numbers. One thing i noticed right away is the bike seemed lower in the rear, I wasn't putting that pre-load on the spring. I felt like the bike was lowered a half inch or so. I also moved my forks 4mm up in the triples. After riding it with this setting, I couldn't believe how much better the bike felt. It was day and night. I finally understood the negative impacts of having to much pre-load on a shock is and making sure you get the right spring for your weight. Get your numbers right and you'll love this suspension.

Rmk, your saying you have more static sag with a stiffer spring? Opposit of what I would have thought, I'm about your size 185-190, I had sag set at 100 because I read that somewhere that's what worked best on the 450f, couldn't find anything on the fx. The bike works great in sand whoops but a bit stiff in rocks & roots, lowering in would be helpful in the technical, I'm 6' and am on my toes on flat ground.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted March 10, 2016 - 08:03 AM




Good questions....you're making me scratch my head in thinking how to answer them. As you know, I absolutely loved the motor on the 2013 WR450F but without YZ cams it would never be a hard hitting motocross engine. Nonetheless it has to be one of the all time best 450F enduro motors ever produced.  It will be sad to see the 2012-2015 line replaced.

 

I can't believe you said that because that is how I feel about the 2012-2015 WR engine too.  Especially after you replace the exhaust cam and tone down the engine braking.  For big guys (> 200 pounds) I think it is the hot ticket.  At least until the FX came out.  Power everywhere, super controllable.  I agree it isn't a motocross engine, but on slick trails and loose climbs you don't want a motocross engine.  It reminds me of the character of the old mildly tuned big 2 stroke enduro engines - PE400, IT 465, but without the plug fouling, detonation, etc.  Super torquey, super linear, super controllable.

 

Good news is that everything good about it is retained in the 450FX. The 450FX also has everything good from the 2014 YZ450F get 4 motors. It will run just like a YZ450F because that's what it is. It is very tunable from hard hitting explosive scary fast to mellow and linear. It is hard to stall, has power everywhere, no lags or early sign off, or flame outs. It is very predictable the way I'm running it with the linear torque hard pack mapping.

 

I'm really glad to hear that.   If you told me that it can have all the controllability of the FI WR engine with a bit more on top, it would be absolutely perfect.

 

It feels better planted and more stable to me than the 250FX. It is more sluggish in tight turns and tends to push or wash out a little easier in tight turns. I'm thinking much of this is correctable with technique and suspension. It feels very light for its reported #264 curb.

 

Very interesting.

 

If I were doing tight one track more I would prefer the 250FX.

 

You say that, but I bet you'd pick the 450FX over the 250FX.   I love both my WR and my 250FX, but I would be lying if I said I didn't miss the 450 power when riding the 250.  It is super nice having a choice.

 

I like that you aren't saying the 450FX is a brute or uncontrollable.  I think Yamaha has done an outstanding job on it.  If they didn't get the engine tuning right people would be writing it off as strictly a pro or desert bike.  I'm not hearing that.  I think I have to get one of these.

 

 

So I've had the opportunity to spend about 40 hours on the 250FX, 40 hours on the 250X, and now about 10 hours on the 450FX. I wish I could keep them all.

 

I'm waiting for my son to grow into bigger bikes so that I can justify another one.  So much good clean fun, this sport is.

 

BTW, this is my much spoken of WR.  It took a ton of work to make it a good mount in tight singletrack.  It sounds like the FX is all my WR is and a bit more.

 

P3080007.JPG

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, March 10, 2016 - 08:06 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted March 10, 2016 - 08:19 AM


I'm right on the edge of under-sprung no doubt. I prefer lighter springs over heavier in most situations and once I get some of my lard ass reduced it might work out OK. Having said that, this suspension comes off the 250FX and is working pretty great for now. When it goes in for service I might re-spring and re-valve but the jury is still out. I ride lots of hours on teeth chattering rocky ugly stuff and the suspension has to work right in these conditions......don't need supercross suspension:)

 

I ride in a lot of the same conditions, though at slower speeds than you'd see in the desert.  

 

The best combination I've found is to go high on the spring rate and back the high speed damping way off.  The bike stays up in the stroke, it steers well but it really handles trail trash well.  

 

The Racetech calculator says I should have a 5.9 or maybe a 6.0 in the back of my WR.   I'm running a 6.4.  I revalved the shock and softened up the stack at high speed.  I reworked the compression adjuster stack and then backed off the high speed adjuster a bit too.  It will bottom softly on anything more than 3 feet of air, but it is smooth on trail trash at speed.  Some of my friends say it is the best suspension they have ridden.  The rear is better than the stock 250FX suspension.



  • grayracer513

Posted March 10, 2016 - 08:26 AM


Rmk, your saying you have more static sag with a stiffer spring? Opposit of what I would have thought,

 

If a softer spring and a stiffer spring are set to the same rider/race/loaded sag, the stiffer spring will have more static sag than the softer, because it will require less preload to support the rider at the same height as the softer one does.



  • cowboyona426

Posted March 10, 2016 - 09:15 AM


I won't get the tank for a few weeks. Imagine the stock tank in natural color without the front part of the seat over the fill cap (that will come off). There you will see a dry break fill.

 

I saw a pic on Facebook of a magazine test bike, I think it was Dirt Rider, and the tank they used actually eliminated the stock rad shrouds and those were part of the tank.  Not much to my liking so I was hoping there was a more sleek option out there.  2.5 gallons would be perfect for me.

Now to email the wife again to negotiate more so I can put a 450FX in the garage...



  • Not sponsored

Posted March 10, 2016 - 09:22 AM


If a softer spring and a stiffer spring are set to the same rider/race/loaded sag, the stiffer spring will have more static sag than the softer, because it will require less preload to support the rider at the same height as the softer one does.

I guess that makes sense, do you know off hand what weight range the stock springs for? 165-175?





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