Welding Kick Start Lever



18 replies to this topic
  • YZ_Abuser

Posted March 01, 2002 - 10:28 PM

#1

Do we have any professional welders out there in TT land? Osheen maybe?

I would like to know if it's possible to shorten the stock kick start lever and weld it back together and maintain durability and strength? It's fairly beefy near the pivot end. If a guy cut out 1"-1.5" in a thick spot and welded it back together you would have a lever the same length as a Pro-Tec or BBR without the $120 cost.
While I was at it I'd have them add somemore material to the pad that hits the foot peg. Any suggestions on doing this? Where to cut, angles, welding rod type, ECT?

I'd love to have a new Pro-Tec lever but $120 is $120. I believe if it's done properly you can make the weld just as strong as new. Welders, what do you think?

  • gasbro225

Posted March 02, 2002 - 12:39 PM

#2

all you might have to worry about is annealing (softening) the metal. the material is probably 4041 or 4043 aluminum but 6061 will work.

  • crazyadam

Posted March 03, 2002 - 05:58 AM

#3

If I wanted to shorten the lever....
I'd cut it in the thick part, them drill out a hole 1" on each side to put a rod (steel, or whatever) thru. then heli-arc weld it.
I knocked the top pipe off the left rad. with my knee, and had it reattached by a skilled welder. and that is some THIN aluminum :) !
There is a little weld puddle, but it was better than buying a new one.
I think the starter should be strong enough if its reinforced.
And, yes I could do this in my shop, but so can lots of other people, at any machine shop.

  • lawdog

Posted March 04, 2002 - 02:24 AM

#4

Why cut and weld, a YZ 250 kick starter will bolt right on, and is much shorter. Good luck Dave

  • YZ_Abuser

Posted March 04, 2002 - 08:21 AM

#5

Originally posted by lawdog:
Why cut and weld, a YZ 250 kick starter will bolt right on, and is much shorter. Good luck Dave


Lawdog

Tell me more. What year YZ 250 lever? Have you done this? I'd suspect that a OEM lever isn't much cheaper than a Pro-Tec or BBR lever. I have a '99 YZ 250, do you know if the '99 and whatever year you are talking about interchange?

Thanks

  • YZ_Abuser

Posted March 04, 2002 - 11:54 AM

#6

Lawdog

I tried swapping my 99 YZ 250 with the 250F. No dice. The 250F has a smaller shaft coming out of the engine case. Are you saying it's a direct swap? I called the dealer and they say the '99 shaft is now updated to the '02 piece. I see no way that this could be a bolt on affair. Maybe if you took the kick lever of the knuckle and swapped them around it may work. Maybe. Any and all info is welcome.
Thanks

  • lawdog

Posted March 05, 2002 - 04:06 AM

#7

Yes I have tried to putthe YZ 250kickstarter ona YZF 426, and it fits. I'm a quad rider, and when you put a 426 motor in the quad,thekick starter hits the fender. I purchased a pro-tec and it's way too long. I can't remember the year but the part number is... 4JW-15620-00-00 $93.50. If you are still apprehensive,since I am a quad guy, e-mail me your address and I'll send you one FREE. Later Dave

  • YZ_Abuser

Posted March 05, 2002 - 04:10 PM

#8

Lawdog

My email address is in the signature line. mln@intplsrv.net Email me and we can work something out. I'm a former quad guy, Honda 250R, so I don't throw stones. Was the Pro-Tec for a 250F or 426F?

Thanks

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: YZ Abuser ]

  • YZ_Abuser

Posted March 08, 2002 - 11:05 AM

#9

lawdog

Are you still there?

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • John_Lorenz

Posted March 08, 2002 - 12:05 PM

#10

No-way No-way No-way,

This is a no-no-no-NOOOOOOOO
I have been welding for years. In any case of weld the strongest point is the weld itself, all other areas around it are the weakest point, Ask a DR about a broken Bone were the strenght and weakness is after the break is heald. I woul do this instead, start by going to Yamaha and comparing the differant Kick starters on other machines, i.e. yz490, 250 tt500 and so on, Manufactures are tight wads and will not retool for things like Kick starter shafts and so on. You will most liklyt find a K.S. that fits and is what you want form another bike.

Never never wled a part on a bike, I can see it now your out in the desseart and your bike needs to be started you reach for the K.S. and give on good boot, it snaps driving the blunt edge right into you boot and ankle, your bleeding profusly and can not get it to stop, ya pack sand, your shirt a dead rabbit into the gapping hole

Ya get the pic
Making friends everwhere I go !

  • Weezer_#_1

Posted March 12, 2002 - 07:40 PM

#11

It is possible to cut and weld your kickstarter back together. The main concern is to get good penetration. So use a TIG welder and you should be fine.
There is a guy in the 250F section that has done his with no problems so far.
I am about to do it to mine as well.
Will keep you posted.

  • yamie_rider

Posted March 17, 2002 - 08:45 AM

#12

I think you need speacial wire when welding aluminum. Something to do with the oxides the metal produces.

  • Mike_909

Posted March 17, 2002 - 09:11 PM

#13

I owned an Aluminum welding business for 5 years and have welded aluminum for 14. I have welded about all you can weld on a dirtbike during that time. The #1 reason I would not recommend welding your kickstarter is because it's cast Aluminum. Regular aluminum is fully weldable if prepped correctly. Cast is different. It will never be as strong as it was before you cut it and it will literally be brittle and easy to break once welded. I have done many cast projects and the only remote chance you would have to get the strength you need is to do as another said and drill thru both ends (as big a hole as possible) but don't use solid rod. Get Stainless steel threaded rod and tap both ends about 1" each. Use a "bottoming tap". Cut the threaded rod to 2-1/8" Then turn both ends to screw it together and stop it at about 1/8" gap to have area to fill when welding. Make sure to bevel the ends at 45 deg before you screw them together. Now you can have it welded and probably have the strength you'll need to be confident in it. Tell whoever welds it to use 5356 alloy aluminum rod. And use a heliarc/Tig welder.

  • John_Lorenz

Posted March 18, 2002 - 09:27 AM

#14

Yippie Mike_909

From One Welder to another I endorse this whole hartedly

  • couch

Posted March 18, 2002 - 02:37 PM

#15

Mike_909, are you suggesting stainless rod for the welding process, or the strength increase over mild steel? I would imagine the steel and aluminum would not mix well while welding.

I have a similar type project in mind, and you have given me inspiration. THANKS

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted March 18, 2002 - 02:42 PM

#16

did anybody consider that while the shaft coming out of the engine may differ, the steel nuckles are differnt and not the aluminum kicker? By the way, I know what its like to break a kicker in a bad place. Broke the kicker on my CR500 in the bottom of a giant bowl in Glamis. At least it was only 90 degrees so it was really fun getting it outa the bowl. I ended up using a kicker from a 250 and it fit. Good luck

  • z4me

Posted March 19, 2002 - 02:21 PM

#17

couch -

My friend had his kickstarter shortened on his KX250 as Mike_909 is recommending. The idea is to drill and tap the cut ends of the kick lever, then screw them together using a threaded stainless rod. Then with them screwed almost together, but leaving a little room to get good penetration from the welder - then heliarc/TIG weld it.

The stainless rod acts sort of like a splint.

The kickstart lever held up better than the KX did :)

[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: z4me ]

  • Weld-it

Posted March 19, 2002 - 03:05 PM

#18

Egahole,
Your comment " in any case of weld the strongest point of the weld is the weld itself,all other areas around it are the weakest point "
doesn't hold up in aluminum welding. The weld
itself is the weakest in aluminum welding the filler
rod dictates the ultimate strength. If you have any experience in testing Al. welds you would see this proved over and over again.Yes, that
statement holds true in most steel applications.
Also the recommendation of 5356 for the filler rod is not a good choice due to the melting point required to melt this particular alloy and its magnesium content, 4145 or 4008
and 4010 are specifically made for welding cast Al. due to the low melting point and the Silicone
and Ti content to counter in impurities in the casting itself and improve the wetting action. Most of the time the reasoning behind a cast weld repair breaks is due to the welder using to much heat in during the welding process which affects the heat affected zone and brings up most of the impurities out of the casting into the weld puddle thus creating a weaker / contaminated weld. This is the primary
reason to use the alloys above they will melt at 980 degrees where most aluminum castings will melt at 1080 degrees so you get a good fusion without excessive heat and impurities. A good place to find information is www.Alcotec.com on any aluminum welding alloys. Also as a side note 5356 alloy when applied to heat over 150 degrees promotes cracking in the weld itself.
Yes, I have welded the pads up on a few YZ-F
kickstarters, I haven't had anyone want one shortened though. I do like the idea with drilling and tapping the pieces but I wouldn't be afraid
of cutting and welding back without it. But ultimately its your decision, just adding a few
thoughts.
Weld-it

  • couch

Posted March 19, 2002 - 04:53 PM

#19

Z, yes I understand the rod is kind of a splint, I guess I didn't ask the question very well. I'll try again. LOL

Would you chose stainless rod over mild steel because of the interaction mild steel might have while welding aluminum over it, or are you choosing stainless simply because it is tougher than mild steel?





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