2013 yz450f suspension and mods


20 replies to this topic
  • mxracer384

Posted October 25, 2015 - 03:14 PM

#1

I am currently trying to set up my bike for Hare Scrambles. I have been looking into rekluse exp 3.0 and fly wheel weights and suspension settings or mods. Does anyone have any setups or expierence with this? my front end seems to be stiff and pushing through corners but I have been slowly softening the front end up.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 25, 2015 - 03:41 PM

#2

I am currently trying to set up my bike for Hare Scrambles. I have been looking into rekluse exp 3.0 and fly wheel weights and suspension settings or mods. Does anyone have any setups or expierence with this? my front end seems to be stiff and pushing through corners but I have been slowly softening the front end up.

 

Set your sag 100/25 first, to see if you have correct spring rates

If you have not serviced your suspension oil, you should.

If it is stiff feeling, it's probably too soft, and you are blowing throught the stroke and getting in to the bottom valving.



  • 15thumper

Posted October 25, 2015 - 04:23 PM

#3

The 13 is one of the worst yz450 for front end push, they are known for it since 2010, all you can do is get a good tire as just your weight forward, experiment with fork height and sag, the bridgestone 403 and maxxis it are great tires for front push also Dunlop mx32

  • Wiz636

Posted October 25, 2015 - 05:29 PM

#4

The 13 is one of the worst yz450 for front end push, they are known for it since 2010, all you can do is get a good tire as just your weight forward, experiment with fork height and sag, the bridgestone 403 and maxxis it are great tires for front push also Dunlop mx32

 

That's not at all true. It may not be as sharp as the '14 and newer but it will turn circles around the '08-'09, and is infinitely better than the '06-'07. As a matter of fact I would go so far as to say that the '13 has NO problem with front end push at all when set up right. And you shouldn't recommend tires unless you know what type of terrain somebody is riding on.

 

mxracer384, are you experiencing the push when sitting or standing? Or both? What is your current sag? Like Krannie said, set your sag to 100 and raise your forks up in the clamps 5mm...that will make the bike steer per sharp, probably even tend to oversteer. I run my sag at 110 with the forks at stock height and it corners on rails.

 

What kind of terrain will you be riding on? What is your honest skill level? (A, B, C)



  • 15thumper

Posted October 25, 2015 - 06:26 PM

#5

Just my ooinion, and just about any magazine who tests the 450's every year, and as far as tires go I've tried just about all of them so I speak from experience and I've owned all the bikes you referenced so just speaking what I've experienced I guess any tire except kenda would be great

  • mikedabike

Posted October 25, 2015 - 08:38 PM

#6

The 10-13 is notoriously hard to set up.  But if you put in the time you will be rewarded.  I had to take some compression out in the front to get it to settle down.  I run 100-105mm sag and forks 5-10mm up in the clamps.  Stock oil level and valving with springs for my weight.  Compression and rebound both 15 clicks out for off road.  Just a few clicks makes a huge difference on these bikes.



  • grayracer513

Posted October 26, 2015 - 07:20 AM

#7

Just my ooinion, and just about any magazine who tests the 450's every year, and as far as tires go I've tried just about all of them so I speak from experience and I've owned all the bikes you referenced so just speaking what I've experienced I guess any tire except kenda would be great

 

Well, I don't suggest you try the MX32 at any of the SoCal white clay/blue groove tracks.  You'll find out what it's like to have an almost complete lack of front end bite.  That's Wiz's point: the terrain matters.

 

As to pushing the front, none of the EFI bikes push like an '07, and the '06 was worse than that.  Still, I have watched my son circulating an MX course on his '06 while the guy on the RMZ (you know, "the bike that corners better than anything"?) washed the front end and dumped it trying to keep up.  They don't ride themselves, someone has to take control.

 

Off roading normally requires overall softer suspension than MX, and the '13 does come with forks on the stiff side, even for MX.  The usual basic first step is to back out the compression to anywhere from 14-18 out and start there.  Same with the shock, back the high speed all the way off, and the low speed out about 12-18.  Reduce rebound to about 10-12 out at both ends and start working from there if it bottoms too much as you increase speed. 



  • mxracer384

Posted October 26, 2015 - 08:20 AM

#8

Well I raced a hare scramble about 4 weeks ago in Arkansas, which was in some hard packed and some soft powder dirt. So the settings I have on my bike right now are:  I have my forks at 5mm up in the triple and I am running 100 mm of sag.  I was running mostly all all factory settings because my bike has only 9 hours on it.  The only things I changed was: I set the sag, raised the forks in the triple clamp and I went about 2 clicks soft for compression both front and rear.  The rear feels spot on maybe slow the rebound just a tad but the front feels super stiff. And that's where I was pushing through the corners.  And my arms were taking a pounding.  But I am a experienced C class rider and I am in pretty good shape.  I was spoiled before because I had a yz250 2 smoker with FC complete re-valve up front and that was like butter on the trails.  Thanks for your help.  I have another Hare Scramble coming up on the 15th of November so I am trying to get my bike dialed in.



  • Wiz636

Posted October 27, 2015 - 06:33 AM

#9

What do you weigh?

 

A front end that is too stiff will definitely cause a push. Don't be afraid to back the comp all the way out and work your way in from there as Grayracer mentioned.  If you have the tools/skills you can also drop the oil level in your outer fork chamber. I settled on 325cc in my '13.  I have to be a little bit careful on big hits but I don't feel roots, rocks, or chatter.

 

And 15Thumper, I only run Kenda tires.  Oddly enough, I have settled on the Kenda Parker DT as my general purpose front tire. I have ran it in Baja and in mud fest races here in Washington with great results.



  • mxracer384

Posted October 27, 2015 - 07:18 AM

#10

I weigh 195 without gear. What is the stock oil level? I a very well versed mechanic just looking for some good ideas and settings. I am going to try backing out the comp all the way and adding till I am comfortable on it.

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  • grayracer513

Posted October 27, 2015 - 08:05 AM

#11

"Standard" oil level for the outer chamber is 350 cc.  Dropping it to 320-325 does make it noticeably more plush, particularly in the mid stroke.



  • 15thumper

Posted October 27, 2015 - 08:22 AM

#12

I know you do wiz, I'm just messing with you

  • mxracer384

Posted October 27, 2015 - 01:44 PM

#13

So should I dump out 25cc of oil?  Can i just take the plug out of the top and pour out 25cc?  Or is it more complicated than that?



  • grayracer513

Posted October 27, 2015 - 03:11 PM

#14

If you were absolutely certain that it has 350cc in it right now, you could. 

 

But you aren't.  Drain the outers completely and refill them. 



  • Wiz636

Posted October 27, 2015 - 06:05 PM

#15

I know you do wiz, I'm just messing with you

 

Uh oh, it appears I am at a disadvantage here!   :jawdrop:  PM me your name?

 

mxracer384 I weigh 195 as well and run stock springs, I think you will like how the fork responds for off roading with 325 cc in the outers.



  • mxracer384

Posted October 30, 2015 - 04:51 AM

#16

So I have not got to the oil yet but I dropped it to the 1 click on the comp and it felt pretty good.  Now I did not get to trail test it. But I disturbed all my neighbors buy riding up the road and hitting all the bumps and curbs in my yard.  I am going to order all the cap wrenches to change the oil within the next week so I can adjust the oil and see how that works.  I am hoping I can make it buttery smooth with out sending it out to revalve just yet.  Any one out there use the pro circuit link for the rear suspension?  Is that all just hype and bling or is it real function.  My bike is totally on function because I don't have extra money to buy pretty parts.



  • mxracer384

Posted November 13, 2015 - 06:11 AM

#17

So I got to trail test my bike and here is where its at.  Front compression is 5 clicks from min soft( so like 17 from max I think?).  But they still feel a little harsh and stiff in the dampening department( maybe the oil level will fix this?).  The rear I have at 2 turns on the high speed from max Comp.  And I am 8 clicks from max low speed compression.  and I lowered the forks to 5.5mm showing on the forks now.  If feels way better now but I am thinking of dropping to 10 on the low speed.  With the drastic difference in compression up front is it possible that I need to drop to a .46 spring up front?  I have heard that the aftermarket springs are a lot better and softer in the beginning of the stroke( for the forks)?



  • grayracer513

Posted November 13, 2015 - 08:30 AM

#18

What you heard about springs isn't true.  For one thing, genuine KYB springs are generally higher in quality than aftermarket springs. They tend to compreress into a straighter stack in the fork, which means they are quieter, and produce less wear against the interior of the fork tube, whch keeps the oil cleaner.  They cost only about 10-15% more than typical aftermarket springs.

 

Springs are listed by "rate", which tells you how much they compress under a given load.  For example, a spring rated .50 kg/mm will compress 1 mm for each .50 kilogram of weight applied.  The pair together support 1.0 kg per each mm of compression.  In pounds per inch, that's 55.9 lb/inch.  When the spring is installed in the fork, it's preloaded, and for the sake of this discussion, we'll say there's an inch of preload, which means that the springs are already applying 55.9 pounds of pressure to extend the fork, and the fork will carry that much weight before the springs compress any additional at all.  Now we'll take a 250 pound bike with 50/50 weight distribution and set that on top of it to load the fork with 125 pounds.  SInce the first 55.9 is accounted for already with the preload, the remaining 69.1 pounds will further compress the springs an additional 1.25".  A 200 pound rider gets on, and about 40% of that goes to the front, so 80 more pounds and another 1.5" of compression. 

 

That's where the spring starts working.  The next inch will require 55.9 more pounds, and the same for each inch after that, regardless of how far or how little it's compressed at the time.  In smooth low speed (referring to the stroke speed of the suspension, not the bike) things like G-outs on a jump face, the spring could manage things almost all on its own without any help from oil damping.  If you hit 2.5 G's, you'll have 512 pounds on the springs instead of 205, so the front will compress 8 more inches. 

 

But thinking back to the days when you used to jump off the toilet onto the bathroom scale so you could watch yourself weigh 400 pounds, you know that there is an inertia efect that that adds into the force the forks have to take up when you hit bumps at speed or land a jump.  If you stiffen your knees and do that, the landing is harsh, and the scale goes nuts.  If you leave your legs bent and totlally relaxed, the landing is much softer until your butt hits the floor.  That's essentially the difference between a too stiff and a too soft spring, and that's where damping comes into the picture. 

 

A spring absorbs energy form impacts by temporarily storing it.  It's ability to do that is fixed and linear, and it returns the energy once the force that stored it has passed. Damping absorbs energy by converting it to work and heat, and non of it is returned when the force is removed.  Oddly, it can often create a plusher ride to use a stiffer spring and reduced compression damping.  If a spring is too soft, it can cause the damping to have to be increased to the point of feeling harsh in order to deal with the big stuff like high speed hits and landings.  A stiffer spring will allow less restrictive damping, and so may feel plusher in heavy compression, but may not comply with the little trail trash and washboard kind of things as well.  So it's a kind of balancing act between springs and damping.  When it's a choice between two springs and you aren't sure, it's generally safer to go with the stiffer one.



  • mxracer384

Posted November 18, 2015 - 04:52 PM

#19

 

Great info!!  Very Helpful.  So I raced the Hare Scramble last weekend and I felt very comfortable on the bike and almost fast HA HA HA!!  What I did notice was I felt like the bike was leaning forward.  Like the stinkbug stance.  Is there a way to fix this without changing the setup that I have created?  Would a lowering link help?  I have heard a few people talk of this but I am hesitant to buy something and be like "oh that part sucks.... now I have a 180$ part that I don't want"  I also read people using like 110 mm of sag and maybe raising the forks back up in the triple.  Any experience on this? 

 


Edited by mxracer384, November 18, 2015 - 04:59 PM.


  • Rogerson Motorsports

Posted November 24, 2015 - 06:49 PM

#20

Have you messed with the engine tuning at all? I am lighter than you so it may have been more of an issue for me than it will be or was for you. I found that the abruptness in the lower part of the rpm range often made the front end light which contributed the vagueness in the front end.

 

I have a 12 and on mine I have put in the proper spring rate for my weight (according to Race Tech), backed high and low speed compression off, backed compression off on the forks a couple clicks also, raised forks 5mm and a run a little less sag than most, I also have the radiator lowering kit and engine relocation kit. Between these mods and some tuning I seem to have a combination that works, at least for me anyways...I race mx though so all this might be irrelevant. Also some people have said that putting on an exhaust lessens the hit down low and as an added bonus gives a little boost up top, which these bikes need because they sign off a little early in my opinion. I can't say if putting my exhaust helped the hit down low on my bike because I tuned the bike right after putting the exhaust on.







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