How much better will the 2016 WR be ?

Yamaha WR450F

101 replies to this topic
  • eddieR1wr450

Posted October 13, 2015 - 11:26 AM

#21

I already sold my 08 , and talk to my dealer sales rep he will be calling me the moment they arrived , cant wait 



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 13, 2015 - 11:33 AM

#22

If that's true, that's a significant amount of weight.   Heck, even 10 lbs means a lot.

 

But that being said, one thing I used to LOVE about my old steel framed WR was stability.    It just didn't move much beneath me.  I picked a line and it stayed there until I made a deliberate choice to change lines or turn.   Its mentally relaxing to ride that way.

 

Taking away too much weight makes it less planted.   The KTM 450 I had was never as planted as a WR.

 

I'm not entirely sure its good to look at the scale alone.       At least not for me.  

 

Stability is in the set up.

My 350 XCFW was rock solid stabil in the ruts, whoops, etc.  It was NOT  that way stock. It took $950 worth of suspension work.

...but it still flexed, and would not hold a line from power on to power off, no matter what. I would take corners, every corner, with the clutch in. Meh.

It was like trying to catch a greased pig, when on soft terrrain....

 

My current WR is amazing. It handles better than anything else I've ever ridden....but it's heavy in the slow forest whoops......



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 13, 2015 - 11:12 PM

#23

Stability is in the set up.

My 350 XCFW was rock solid stabil in the ruts, whoops, etc.  It was NOT  that way stock. It took $950 worth of suspension work.

...but it still flexed, and would not hold a line from power on to power off, no matter what. I would take corners, every corner, with the clutch in. Meh.

It was like trying to catch a greased pig, when on soft terrrain....

 

FYI, the 2016 KTM350 XCF is 30% stiffer torsionally but 20% less stiff longitudinally.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 14, 2015 - 04:59 AM

#24

FYI, the 2016 KTM350 XCF is 30% stiffer torsionally but 20% less stiff longitudinally.

 

What is your point



  • KennyMc

Posted October 14, 2015 - 05:43 AM

#25

What is your point

It's 10% stiffer torsionallylongitudinally ;)



Will you never learn :D

Edited by KennyMc, October 14, 2015 - 05:44 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 14, 2015 - 07:43 AM

#26

What is your point

 

Just providing information relevant to the conversation.  Is that a sin these days ?



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 14, 2015 - 07:49 AM

#27

Compared to the previous WR450F, the new model runs with higher 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears, while 1st and 5th remain the same.
   The WR is supposed to be the more woodsy bike of the line, right ?  The YZFX is the GNCC/ desert racer ?   If that is the case, I think this regearing is a mistake. 1st, 2nd, 3rd on the current WR are too far apart.  I much prefer 1st, 2nd, 3rd from the YZ in the woods.  On the WR, 2nd is really the only useful hill climbing gear.   Unless the hill is short, 1st doesn't provide enough momentum and 3rd is too fast unless the hill has a super smooth/easy run up.  On a YZ, 3rd is quite a bit more usable.  Even in level woods, I find myself going back and forth between 2nd and 3rd a lot.  2nd too slow, 3rd too fast.

 

If the WR is the woods weapon, I think it needs 6 speeds or at least a close 1st, 2nd, 3rd and a wide 4th and 5th.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 14, 2015 - 08:42 AM

#28

Wouldn't you want the 450FX as opposed to the WR? Since you have basically made your WR into an FX before they were available.

 

I'm not sure which bike I would start with.  I don't see a lot of difference between the WR and the FX.  One could be made into the other easily enough.  I might even start with a plain old YZ, if we can get my friend's 2015 YZ450F kick starting better, though if the FX had tamer power and more flywheel weight, that would be hard to ignore.

 

FYI, the new 2016 KTM FI bodies have separate circuits for starting and idling.  I wonder if the new Yamahas will have that.

 

I'm trying to plan my next bike purchase.   I'm wondering if I want to run 2 bikes (450F and 250F) or if I'd be happier with a KTM 350 XC-F.  Costs a bit more to own and run 2 bikes, but it is a bit more versatile too.  And they only wear out half as fast.  But being Yamahas, they will never wear out.

 

Having said all that, I'm having a blast on my WR450F special.  It is still a bit heavy in the really tight woods, but I seem to be able to keep up and then some, its stone reliable and it is mostly all set up and its paid for.  If the reverse engine bikes are a lot more nimble in the tight stuff (less reciprocating mass, more mass centralization) then I'll probably upgrade.  Otherwise, probably not.

 

I recently spent part of a ride on a Sherco 300.  It turns like a dream.  It carves singletrack.   And the engine has some grunt to it.   But it is no 450 for power going up even moderate hills.  Not sure I am ready to give up 450 style power.  My search for the ultimate woods bike continues.



  • Spiritwalker2222

Posted October 14, 2015 - 09:08 AM

#29

I recently spent part of a ride on a Sherco 300.  It turns like a dream.  It carves singletrack.   And the engine has some grunt to it.   But it is no 450 for power going up even moderate hills.  Not sure I am ready to give up 450 style power.  My search for the ultimate woods bike continues.

Were you on the 300 2 stroke or 4 stroke? I've ridden both, and recall liking the 4 strokes nimble light feel. Didn't have a lot of juice but seemed OK. Didn't spend too much time on the 2 stroke and didn't want to, it had stock ergos which is no good for me. But what I do recall is the suspension on both bikes being horrible. That might be fixable if the bikes were setup for me, but I don't know.



  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted October 14, 2015 - 09:49 AM

#30

Im still going to look at a 15 or 16 exc450...

 

 

Looking is okay as long as you don't buy it!

 

Its good to have choices.  I don't knock the newer KTM's.  I think they are probably great bikes.   But I like having choices.   

 

KTM, Yamaha and Beta's all seem to be good choices for 450's these days.    Each has something unique to bring to the table.



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  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 14, 2015 - 09:53 AM

#31

Were you on the 300 2 stroke or 4 stroke? I've ridden both, and recall liking the 4 strokes nimble light feel. Didn't have a lot of juice but seemed OK. Didn't spend too much time on the 2 stroke and didn't want to, it had stock ergos which is no good for me. But what I do recall is the suspension on both bikes being horrible. That might be fixable if the bikes were setup for me, but I don't know.

 

I was on a 2015 4T, SEFR, I think.  

 

Funny you comment about the suspension.  The owner had it revalved by the local shop ($$$) and it was tolerable when I was riding it.  Both ends were harsh on trail junk.  I was riding it pretty aggressively and my back was actually a bit sore the next day.   When my friend got off my WR he immediately commented about how much better the suspension was on it than the Sherco.

 

I found the 300 Sherco to have a very light nimble feel.   At first I thought the bike was smaller, but it isn't.  Its wheelbase is actually longer than our WRs.   I think it must have a pretty steep head angle and not much flywheel weight.

 

BTW, those Sherco 300s weigh a lot more than the specs say they do.

 

My time on the Sherco 300 has me thinking about a lighter 4T bike.  Something along the lines of a YZ250FX.  If only it was a 300 or a 350.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, October 14, 2015 - 09:57 AM.


  • Just_a_trail_rider

Posted October 14, 2015 - 09:54 AM

#32

Just providing information relevant to the conversation.  Is that a sin these days ?

No... that's good.  But I'm not an engineer.     Tell me how I would notice the additional stiffness on the trail?        

 

Does that help it hold  a straight line better and feel more planted?  I assume that the weight of a wr450, while not preferred for racing, might be good for holding a straight line on  non-racing type rides.    



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 14, 2015 - 10:04 AM

#33

No... that's good.  But I'm not an engineer.     Tell me how I would notice the additional stiffness on the trail?        

 

Dunno.

 

 

 

 I assume that the weight of a wr450, while not preferred for racing, might be good for holding a straight line on  non-racing type rides.    

 

Riding a WR450 is like riding a gyroscope.  It just wants to keep going straight.  You spend your energy making it turn.

 

Riding a light 2T is like riding a 10 speed.  It is hoping all over the place and you spend your energy trying to make it stay straight.

 

2 totally different riding experiences.  In tight woods with lots of turns I'm using more energy than the guys on the 2Ts.  It takes more planning and effort to go fast on the 450.   But in nasty, technical conditions a 450 is way more stable and has way more traction.     
 

 



  • Caveman_clay

Posted October 14, 2015 - 10:39 AM

#34

You might be right

The new YZ450F forks are call SFF.


Pretty sure they're sss

  • OUTERLIMITS

Posted October 14, 2015 - 12:14 PM

#35

 

If the WR is the woods weapon, I think it needs 6 speeds or at least a close 1st, 2nd, 3rd and a wide 4th and 5th.

 

 This is the way I would have gone.  Don't have a use for a 6-speed, but relatively close 1-3 and then 4-5 spaced out a bit.  Who knows though, they did it for a reason.  It may work out great on the WR/FX.  Remember, whole new hampster powering that treadmill this year.  This bike should have more juice than the older WRs.



  • vlxjim

Posted October 14, 2015 - 01:38 PM

#36

http://www.yamahamot.../models/wr450f#

img.jpg?id=30111&w=840

 

 

  • Innovative YZ450F-Based Engine Design
    All-new for 2016—with a revolutionary rearward slanted, liquid-cooled, DOHC 4-stroke powerplant with four titanium valves based on the 2016 YZ450F™, a wide ratio five-speed transmission and WR-specific modifications—the new WR450F™ is an “out-of-the-box” enduro machine. (California Green Sticker compliant with a forestry service-approved spark arrestor.)
  • New Electric Starter System
    New, main switch-free electrical system provides push-of-the-button electric starting convenience, Just push the starter button and go – no need to power on a main switch or insert a key.
  • Bilateral Beam Aluminum Frame
    The WR450F features a YZ-bred aluminum Bilateral Beam frame - engineered from castings, forgings and extrusions - with engine mounts optimized for chassis rigidity characteristics needed in enduro riding conditions.
  • Industry Leading KYB® Suspension
    Industry leading, fully adjustable YZ450F-based KYB® spring-type forks with speed-sensitive damping and KYB® shock delivers precise, best-in-class, fade-free handling.
  • Enduro-Ready WR450F Features
    WR450F-specifc details include a new wide-ratio five-speed transmission, temperature regulating radiator fan, an optimized clutch, sealed O-ring chain, skid plate, kick start, and a standard side-stand.
  • New 270mm Front Brake
    270mm front disc brake offers outstanding machine control and performance, with exceptional stopping power and controllability.
  • Enduro Lighting and Instruments
    Headlight, LED taillight and a complete LCD enduro race computer are ready for long race days.
  • Enduro Tires and Wheels
    Enduro-specific tires and an 18-inch rear wheel.

 

  • Enduro-Tuned YZ450F Power
    YZ450F-style 449cc liquid-cooled DOHC four-stroke with four titanium valves and forward intake and rearward exhaust shares the YZ450F’s piston and cam profiles, with WR450F-specific silencer and ECU tuning built for enduro racing.
  • Advanced Fuel Injection
    Fuel injection system delivers precise throttle response and smooth power delivery at all altitudes and temperatures, featuring a high-performance 44mm throttle body. The air filter is easily accessed without tools and is positioned high in front of the bike, away from dirt roost from the rear tire and further away from water and mud.
  • Compact Engine Layout
    Dry-sump lubrication system carries the oil reservoir inside the engine cases, for excellent mass centralization and no exposed oil lines that can be damaged.
  • YZ-F-Derived Cooling System
    Large-capacity YZ450F radiators provide maximum cooling efficiency with great strength, and come standard with a cooling fan for additional airflow under demanding race conditions.
  • Enduro-Ready Wide Ratio Gearing
    Wide-ratio five-speed transmission and enduro-spec multiplate clutch—ideal for the rigors of tight woods racing.
  • Wraparound Rear Positioned Exhaust Layout
    Lightweight exhaust system maximizes engine power while centralizing the mass of the exhaust system, thanks to the innovative wrap-around design.
  • California Green Sticker Compliant and Forestry Approved Muffler
    An aluminum mechanical muffler with USFS-approved spark arrestor keeps things light and doesn’t require routine servicing.
  • New Electric Starter System
    Electric starter provides effortless, convenient restarts, while new main switch-free electrical system makes starting and riding away even easier than before.

 

  • Bilateral Beam Aluminum Frame
    YZ450F-based frame offers a compact size while optimizing mass centralization. With its extensively tested assembly of aluminum forgings and extrusions complete with model-specific engine mounting, the WR450F frame retains legendary Yamaha handling and response.
  • Compact and Lightweight Chassis
    Compact YZ450F-based chassis provides a lightweight feeling with advanced suspension systems for plush and responsive performance for the most demanding rider.
  • Legendary KYB® YZ450F Front Fork
    Industry leading, fully adjustable YZ450F-based KYB® spring-type fork with speed-sensitive damping and Kashima Coat™ has been specifically tested and tuned for enduro racing and delivers precise, fade-free handling. Fork protectors provide excellent tube protection.
  • Revised Shock Tuning
    The KYB® shock provides 12.5 inches of wheel travel with adjusters for high- and low-speed compression damping, rebound and spring preload—and features a large piggyback reservoir for excellent damping and fade resistance.
  • New 270mm Front Brake
    Large diameter 270mm front brake system is the same disc fitted to the 2016 YZ450F, for exceptional stopping power and braking control.
  • Enduro-Specific Tires and Wheels
    18-inch enduro-specific rear wheel and tire provides added comfort on rough trails as well as reducing the possibility of pinch flats.

 

  • Distance-ready WR Ergonomics
    YZ-family derived bodywork and seat look and feel excellent on long rides, with ultra-wide footpegs, four-position, rubber-mounted adjustable bar clamps and a tapered aluminum handlebar for great on-the-trail comfort.
  • Real World Tough Features
    All this, including: tool-less access air box, 18-inch rear wheel, plastic skid plate, tapered aluminum handlebars, wave-type brake rotors, electric start, on-the-fly clutch adjuster, O-ring chain and aluminum side stand. This machine is ready for tight trails, woods, or desert fun.
  • Enduro Computer
    Multi-mode enduro meter now includes engine warning and fuel level warning lights. Standard mode displays speed, two trip meters and clock functions, while race mode features average speed, race time and trip functionality.
  • Embedded Graphics
    Yamaha’s unique embedded graphics are built into the bodywork for extended durability, resisting both peeling and damage.
  • img.jpg?id=30112&w=840

Edited by vlxjim, October 14, 2015 - 01:41 PM.


  • jetrep

Posted October 14, 2015 - 02:57 PM

#37

I had a 2012 WR450F.  It was a good bike but had some issues.  It didn't always start nearly as easily as it should halve.  The clutch was super stiff.  That didn't bother me too much since I installed a Rekluse ZSP.  Suspension was great.  Bike was great in more open riding but in the tight woods I would sometimes get flame outs.  Probably my fault but not an issue I've had on other bikes.  Gearing wasn't ideal for higher speeds.  It would do 90 something miles an hour but even at 50 the engine was revving too much.  When the woods got tight the bike would start to feel heavy.  Mileage was pretty poor.  Worse than expected for injection.  It was the same as a friend's 05 WR450F

 

I picked up a KTM 350 XCFW and never missed the Yamaha one bit.  It sounds like they may have addressed pretty much all my issues with this new design.



  • JKoz

Posted October 14, 2015 - 06:08 PM

#38

I've been trying to decide what bike to do this time around.This thread has a bunch of helpful info.

Had a 2006 WR450 and that was a decent bike after a ton of mods. Still heavy in the tight single tracks but I didn't mind it too much, then switched to a 250SX and decided on going back to a 4 stroke so I ended up buying a 2011 Husaberg 390FE which was an awesome trail bike. Sold that 1 1/2 years ago when we moved......fast forward to today and I'm ready for a bike again.

 

I'm trying to decide between the 16 WR450 and a Husquavarna 501S. The 501S is nice for having a plate and not dealing with the hassle but that's not the end of the world. I assume all these models will need the minor mods to open them up since I don't have the California issues.

Riding break down will be 30% woods riding with the guys (maybe a few enduro's), 30% woods riding with my kids, 5% dual sport, 35% with a Timbersled long track conversion.



  • stevethe

Posted October 14, 2015 - 06:19 PM

#39

I've been trying to decide what bike to do this time around.This thread has a bunch of helpful info.
Had a 2006 WR450 and that was a decent bike after a ton of mods. Still heavy in the tight single tracks but I didn't mind it too much, then switched to a 250SX and decided on going back to a 4 stroke so I ended up buying a 2011 Husaberg 390FE which was an awesome trail bike. Sold that 1 1/2 years ago when we moved......fast forward to today and I'm ready for a bike again.
 
I'm trying to decide between the 16 WR450 and a Husquavarna 501S. The 501S is nice for having a plate and not dealing with the hassle but that's not the end of the world. I assume all these models will need the minor mods to open them up since I don't have the California issues.
Riding break down will be 30% woods riding with the guys (maybe a few enduro's), 30% woods riding with my kids, 5% dual sport, 35% with a Timbersled long track conversion.


You will need a competition ECU a performance muffler or pipe a remap and likely open the air box if it's muffled. That stuff doesn't bother me at all. I believe the new backwards motors will rip. Hopefully it may have the power of my built WR450.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 15, 2015 - 07:17 AM

#40

 

I picked up a KTM 350 XCFW and never missed the Yamaha one bit.  It sounds like they may have addressed pretty much all my issues with this new design.

 

I'm trying to decide if I would like a KTM 350 XCF.   I'm wondering about long term durability.  I put 75 to 100 hours on a season.  How often will I need to rebuild it ?  These Yamahas are stone reliable.







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