09 YZ450 clutch


27 replies to this topic
  • emexcee380

Posted September 29, 2015 - 03:08 AM

#1

Greeting Yama-dudes,

 

My son has an 09 YZ450F with a nagging clutch problem. Specifically, it doesn't seem to 

disengage enough such that whenever he pulls in the clutch and brakes hard into a corner

it nearly always stalls.  Here's what we know:

 

- New clutch cable and lever

- Relatively new (un-notched) Barnett basket and hub

- Relatively new Tusk fibers

- He runs full-synthetic oil for max lubricity (and the clutch doesn't slip)

- The clutch actuator is not grooved and seems to work normally

- New OEM clutch push rod

- When we pull the clutch cover we can see the pressure plate lift approx. 2 mm

- The tranny shifts fine

 

Can any Yamaha guys shed any more light on this nagging problem.  It's beginning to look

like the solution might be a $750 Rekluse auto clutch.  Certainly all YZ450F's don't have this

problem.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

emexcee380



  • UncleLuke

Posted September 29, 2015 - 04:29 AM

#2

IMO it's the cheap Tusk clutch plates

 

I tried them side to side with OEM and EBC and I'll never cheap out again on clutch plates



  • stevethe

Posted September 29, 2015 - 06:03 AM

#3

Don't do a Rekluse due to having warped metal plates. Just change your metal plates and it should be good. Even better would be to buy a Hinson kit with all plates and springs. Then throw away the springs as they are too stiff. I am using the Hinson in my WR450 and they disengage better than stock plates = fixed. Whatever you do don't buy Chinese clutch plates.


Edited by stevethe, September 29, 2015 - 06:04 AM.


  • emexcee380

Posted September 29, 2015 - 06:03 AM

#4

IMO it's the cheap Tusk clutch plates

 

I tried them side to side with OEM and EBC and I'll never cheap out again on clutch plates

UncleLuke,

 

I've had great luck with Tusk clutch plates (and all Tusk products for that matter...) on my KTMs.  I respectfully

disagree that it's a fault of them.  The problem seems like the clutch plates are sticking together.  We haven't

replaced the steel plates (because they weren't warped) but if the raised "nubbins" on the plates are worn down

completely maybe they are wringing together like flat, polished pieces tend to do and sticking.   Hmmmm.....



  • UncleLuke

Posted September 29, 2015 - 06:15 AM

#5

Two bikes, KX and YZ and nothing but trouble from the $55 Tusk clutch kit. It is cheap for a reason.

 

Slipping, chattering, and dragging. Overall inconsistent feel as it wears. Never really "broke in"

 

I guarantee it is the Tusk plate kit. Do you have other plates to can try to troubleshoot the problem with? Sold the KX and tossed the YZ clutch in the trash, 09 YZ450F just like yours



  • stevethe

Posted September 29, 2015 - 06:35 AM

#6

UncleLuke,

 

I've had great luck with Tusk clutch plates (and all Tusk products for that matter...) on my KTMs.  I respectfully

disagree that it's a fault of them.  The problem seems like the clutch plates are sticking together.  We haven't

replaced the steel plates (because they weren't warped) but if the raised "nubbins" on the plates are worn down

completely maybe they are wringing together like flat, polished pieces tend to do and sticking.   Hmmmm.....

 

You may have used them on one bike with good luck. However I would never use them on a YZ or WR. With all new factory plates the Yamaha's are only okay. The Hinson are the best I found and I have three WR450's. One is used by my son and he miss adjusted the clutch wrong with no slack and we put brand new stock plates in it. Mine was beat since 07 first clutch and I used Hinson. The Hinson are far better for disengagement and that's all I will use next time.



  • grayracer513

Posted September 29, 2015 - 06:35 AM

#7

Here's one of the problems: 

 

 

- It's got relatively new Tusk fibers

 

Sorry, but they're notorious....

 

The steels are probably also a factor, and should be checked for flatness, dishing, etc.  But, the criteria for your clutch releasing "properly" is whether or not neutral can be selected at a standstill.  If you can do that, the clutch is "normal".  

 

What is more likely causing your stalling is your carb setup, your idle mixture in particular.  The idle should be set up on the lean side.  If you have it richened up to improve your off-idle throttle response, or to eliminate any and all decel popping ever, that can very easily be what's causing the whole thing. 

 

When the bike idles too rich, it drops from a loaded state to idle too rapidly, and will often drop well below idle before recovering.  This causes the bike to drop entirely past idle and die in many cases when the throttle is quickly closed.  A leaner idling engine will fall back to idle more gradually, and not be so prone to dip below that speed. 



  • emexcee380

Posted September 29, 2015 - 07:51 AM

#8

Don't do a Rekluse due to having warped metal plates. Just change your metal plates and it should be good. Even better would be to buy a Hinson kit with all plates and springs. Then throw away the springs as they are too stiff. I am using the Hinson in my WR450 and they disengage better than stock plates = fixed. Whatever you do don't buy Chinese clutch plates.

Stevethe,

 

Thanks for your response. The metal plates aren't warped, but they may be worn.  That's the only item he hasn't replaced.

 

A Hinson set-up would be great, but it's cost-prohibitive for a youngster.  The springs are relatively new (Tusk) but that didn't

help either.

 

Metal plates are next..

 

Thanks,



  • grayracer513

Posted September 29, 2015 - 08:04 AM

#9

Tusk springs are another problem (poor uniformity).

 

Another cute trick I found out when I was sent the wrong plate kit once is that the '08 - '09 YFZ450R Quad clutch plate set releases generally better than the OEM for a YZ450F, and so far, I don't have a problem with it at all.  The friction plates are two of the same original 5TA-16321-00-00, one for the innermost and one for the outermost plates, where they run on aluminum parts, but the middle 6 (or 7, in a nine plate clutch) are 5VY-16321-00-00 plates, originally made for the R1.  I use these in a YZ450 with a Rekluse, and when it's moderately warm, it actually will start in gear some of the time.

 

Then again, Hinson plates are an excellent choice, as said. 



  • UncleLuke

Posted September 29, 2015 - 09:04 AM

#10

I'll ask again:

 

 

 Do you have other plates to can try to troubleshoot the problem with? 



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  • jimbopitts

Posted September 29, 2015 - 09:10 AM

#11

Im using a tusk clutch in my 06 and it works flawless.

  • stevethe

Posted September 29, 2015 - 11:20 AM

#12

Hinson clutch pack $167. = Cheap
http://www.motoparth...CFQGoaQodKU8FKg

  • grayracer513

Posted September 29, 2015 - 02:33 PM

#13

In my case, the kit came from a sponsor, and I told him in the first place that I didn't need the kit because I couldn't use the steels or the springs (Rekluse Z-Start Pro).  For the price, it didn't matter :smirk:



  • stevethe

Posted September 29, 2015 - 06:54 PM

#14

Im using a tusk clutch in my 06 and it works flawless.


Flawless to me means posting a video of your bike starting in gear real easy. :@)

  • jimbopitts

Posted September 29, 2015 - 07:04 PM

#15

Flawless to me means posting a video of your bike starting in gear real easy. :@)

My 06 YZ450, and my 96 KX500 both have tusk clutches and springs. The both start in gear with no problem. Im not accusing you of not having issues with yours, just letting everyone know i haven't had an issue with them since tusk was accused of being a bad product. I see a lot of posts of people bashing products and they haven't even used them.

  • Gunner354

Posted September 29, 2015 - 08:46 PM

#16

Greeting Yama-dudes,

My son has an 09 YZ450F with a nagging clutch problem. Specifically, it doesn't seem to
disengage enough such that whenever he pulls in the clutch and brakes hard into a corner
it nearly always stalls. Here's what we know:

- New clutch cable and lever
- Relatively new (un-notched) Barnett basket and hub
- Relatively new Tusk fibers
- He runs full-synthetic oil for max lubricity (and the clutch doesn't slip)
- The clutch actuator is not grooved and seems to work normally
- New OEM clutch push rod
- When we pull the clutch cover we can see the pressure plate lift approx. 2 mm
- The tranny shifts fine

Can any Yamaha guys shed any more light on this nagging problem. It's beginning to look
like the solution might be a $750 Rekluse auto clutch. Certainly all YZ450F's don't have this
problem.

Thanks in advance,

emexcee380

What weight of oil are you using? I've had problems in the past with 20-50.

  • emexcee380

Posted September 30, 2015 - 03:02 AM

#17

Thanks for all the responses !

 

Grayracer513 your idea that the problem might be caused by a rich idle mixture seemed intriguing.

Especially in light of all the clutch components being replaced.  I forgot to mention it's got new springs

(TUSK !!!) as well.  (Sorry, I've had too much good luck with Tusk products to be able to wrap my

mind around them being the problem. Especially since the problem existed with OEM stuff initially.)

 

So last night we tweaked on the (Tusk) fuel screw to lean out the idle mixture.  It was set at 2.5 turns

out and idled okay at that setting.  We warmed the bike up and found the effective range where the

idle changed to be from 1.5 to 3 turns out.  We set it at the leaner setting (1.5) and did some initial

slam-on-the-rear-brake-with-clutch-in  stops and the stalling seemed to be improved.  More testing 

will be needed to confirm, but this could be the solution.

 

More info as it develops.....

 

(Sorry about the Tusk jabs....it's all in good humor !)

 

emexcee380


Edited by emexcee380, September 30, 2015 - 07:50 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted September 30, 2015 - 11:23 AM

#18

I see a lot of posts of people bashing products and they haven't even used them.

 

Just so we all understand, I'm not in that category.



  • stevethe

Posted September 30, 2015 - 08:16 PM

#19

My 06 YZ450, and my 96 KX500 both have tusk clutches and springs. The both start in gear with no problem. Im not accusing you of not having issues with yours, just letting everyone know i haven't had an issue with them since tusk was accused of being a bad product. I see a lot of posts of people bashing products and they haven't even used them.


I'm generally not much in the category of basher. However when it comes to clutch plates and brake pads I only try to use stock or better. Yamaha plates as new don't disengage perfectly.
Lots of people read posts to learn or get a good feeling for products the Tusk line is just not one of the ones I believe most people would be happy with for a Yamaha clutch pack.
Hinson is well known for quality and I think the price charged for a simple clutch pack is well worth it. Considering a clutch can last at least five years or more it's worth getting the best.

  • jimbopitts

Posted October 01, 2015 - 09:13 AM

#20

I agree, its good to share what works and what doesn't. I was just throwing out it out there that ive had a tusk clutch and springs in my yz for awhile now with no problems





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