YZ450FX IS ON IT'S WAY

Yamaha YZ450F

214 replies to this topic
  • DMC707

Posted June 27, 2015 - 01:11 PM

#21

It all boils down to geometry.  Swap in a set of 22mm triple clamps and crank up the preload on the back end, maybe drop the TCs and its an entirely different beast.  KTMs run 20 and 22mm TCs, for the most part anyway.   Most Yamahas are 25mm.

 

Not quite that easy 

 

It was an accepted problem on that generation of Yamaha with no solution (i tried everything and so did many others )  - Some of the grumblings on the AMA SX/MX side of things is that is why the Yammy's werent widely accepted bikes for the privateers either for years     - until of course, the 2014 dropped with 60 hp stock --- for an AMA pro, not having to spend 10,000 bucks on the motor out of the box erases some of the pain of a "neutral handling" machine   ---  now all the locals seem to want a taste of the blue machine

 

     I gotta admit, i'm very intrigued -- and for my style of racing, i like the 250 FX too---------   if there are some easy fixes to help the current generation machines stick a rut and hold its line in the turns, i may be all in



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted June 27, 2015 - 01:25 PM

#22

It all boils down to geometry.  Swap in a set of 22mm triple clamps and crank up the preload on the back end, maybe drop the TCs and its an entirely different beast.  KTMs run 20 and 22mm TCs, for the most part anyway.   Most Yamahas are 25mm.

 

It absolutely positively does NOT boil down to just the triple tree offset.

 

You  cannot compare a KTM to a Yamaha by fork offset.

 

The frames are completely different and the information is not transferable.



  • stevethe

Posted June 27, 2015 - 01:40 PM

#23

I might wait for the backward motor six speed WR450. That is if it's not a turd with weight and HP.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted June 27, 2015 - 04:27 PM

#24

If 10 or 12 pounds is all that is separating the WR from the YZFX and weight doesn't really matter anyway, why not put your WR on a diet ?

 

- remove the kick stand

- lithium battery

- non O Ring chain

- aluminum rear sprocket

- YZ foot pegs

- remove the skid plate

- remove a few pieces of non essential hardware, ie the light that that YZFX doesn't come with

 

and you are pretty much there.  Suspension is mostly the same.  People generally change the suspension anyway.  Geometry will be close.  Engine will be close.

 

The only advantage I see to the YZ450FX is that it might have 6 speeds and its closer to an off road racing bike than a WR or YZ.  With the mix and match Yamaha parts system, you can make any of these bikes into any of the others without too much difficulty.

 

I'm sure the rear engine YZFX is going to have better mass centralization and feel a bit lighter, but is it going to be that much of a difference ?   To warrant getting a new bike ?

 

FYI, the KTM 450 EXC weighs 245 pounds with no fuel.  Throw in 2 gallons of fuel and you are approaching 260 pounds wet.



  • stevethe

Posted June 27, 2015 - 04:29 PM

#25

Just as a precursor to the 450fx a buddy of mine just bought the 250fx and said it's awesome to any comparison of his CRF250x. The latter is for sale now.

Edited by stevethe, June 27, 2015 - 05:01 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted June 27, 2015 - 04:33 PM

#26

If 10 or 12 pounds is all that is separating the WR from the YZFX and weight doesn't really matter anyway, why not put your WR on a diet ?
 
- remove the kick stand
- lithium battery
- non O Ring chain
- aluminum rear sprocket
- YZ foot pegs
- remove the skid plate
- remove a few pieces of non essential hardware, ie the light that that YZFX doesn't come with
 
and you are pretty much there.  Suspension is mostly the same.  People generally change the suspension anyway.  Geometry will be close.  Engine will be close.
 
The only advantage I see to the YZ450FX is that it might have 6 speeds and its closer to an off road racing bike than a WR or YZ.  With the mix and match Yamaha parts system, you can make any of these bikes into any of the others without too much difficulty.
 
I'm sure the rear engine YZFX is going to have better mass centralization and feel a bit lighter, but is it going to be that much of a difference ?   To warrant getting a new bike ?
 
FYI, the KTM 450 EXC weighs 245 pounds with no fuel.  Throw in 2 gallons of fuel and you are approaching 260 pounds wet.


The backwards motor bike's won't be comparable to the WR forward motor bikes. Even if you removed the starter motor and put it in your back pocket for more rearward centralization.

  • Monk

Posted June 27, 2015 - 04:44 PM

#27

No matter what the subject, you have to find a way to work in the weight of your stripped no e-start WR, don't you.

Try this on for size:

The 2015 YZ250FX is 16lbs heavier than the YZ250F

Therefore, the WET WEIGHT of 245 for the 2015 YZ450F, plus 16 lbs, would be about 261 for the FX.

Guess what a KTM 450 XCF weighs wet? 253lbs. So it's less than 8lbs heavier than a KTM. Most of that additional is in the kickstand and crank and transmission.

WHO CARES


Dropping the addition weight would be relatively easy too. Between the kickstand, battery and exhaust you could lose 10+ pounds.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted June 27, 2015 - 05:00 PM

#28

Just as a precursor to the 450fx a buddy of mine just bought the 250fx and said it's awesome to any comparison to his CRF250x. The latter is for sale now.

 

Everything is awesome compared to a CRF250X !



  • jmd426

Posted June 27, 2015 - 06:03 PM

#29

:banghead:



  • mch

Posted June 27, 2015 - 06:24 PM

#30

If 10 or 12 pounds is all that is separating the WR from the YZFX and weight doesn't really matter anyway, why not put your WR on a diet ?

 

- remove the kick stand

- lithium battery

- non O Ring chain

- aluminum rear sprocket

- YZ foot pegs

- remove the skid plate

- remove a few pieces of non essential hardware, ie the light that that YZFX doesn't come with

 

and you are pretty much there.  Suspension is mostly the same.  People generally change the suspension anyway.  Geometry will be close.  Engine will be close.

 

The only advantage I see to the YZ450FX is that it might have 6 speeds and its closer to an off road racing bike than a WR or YZ.  With the mix and match Yamaha parts system, you can make any of these bikes into any of the others without too much difficulty.

 

I'm sure the rear engine YZFX is going to have better mass centralization and feel a bit lighter, but is it going to be that much of a difference ?   To warrant getting a new bike ?

 

FYI, the KTM 450 EXC weighs 245 pounds with no fuel.  Throw in 2 gallons of fuel and you are approaching 260 pounds wet.

 

I can't speak for all, but I bought the WR mainly for the FI, electric start, and kickstand.  If the last two features weren't important, I would have rather just bought a YZ.  There is no reason that the Japanese can't manufacturer an electric start bike that is competitive and doesn't weigh a ton. 



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  • Krannie McKranface

Posted June 27, 2015 - 08:37 PM

#31

They can, they won't, they haven't, and it doesn't matter.

 

I don't want a tiny little KTM POS or I would buy one (and I did, and it sucks).

 

All this comparing is STUPID. 

 

Ride ride ride.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted June 27, 2015 - 11:44 PM

#32

This is a forum where we discuss things.  Its interesting.

 

If I'm so far off base, please tell me what the YZ450FX is going to have that I can't build with off the shelf parts starting with a WR or YZ.  I'll give you the 6 speed transmission.  And it has the reverse engine with electric start.  What else does it have ?

 

Also don't forget that we are projecting a 260 pound bike without a skid plate or headlight.  By the time you add them, you are up to 264 pounds, a mere 9 pounds less than the present WR450F.

 

I love Yamaha bikes, but Yamaha needs to go back to the drawing board and start making things lighter.



  • chu

Posted June 28, 2015 - 02:48 AM

#33

You could go on the KTM board and ask them to make the bikes as reliable as Yamaha and drop the price a couple thousand dollars.



  • patrick2wd

Posted June 28, 2015 - 03:00 AM

#34

In the EU we (can) get the YZ's with a plate,

but, as it doesnt has an electric starter (which I need due to a ruptured achillesheel)

 

otherwise I'd allready have a '13 YZ, with plate lights and the lot..

but I'd put my money on a six-speed/ reversed cilinder WR!
:thumbsup:

 

hence the waiting... :banghead:


Edited by patrick2wd, June 28, 2015 - 04:47 AM.


  • Monk

Posted June 28, 2015 - 06:28 AM

#35

As a reference, I raced a stripped down current WR, I own the latest YZ450F, they feel nothing alike...

  • Summit

Posted June 28, 2015 - 06:33 AM

#36

The 450fx will be a great bike and I'm 99% sure I'll get one. It's not going to be a featherweight but I'm confident it will be a great upgrade to my 05 wr, which by the way has been an absolute awesome bike. I recently got the opportunity to ride my buddies "featherweight" brand new 300xcw which I was sure that I would come away really wanting one...I really wanted to like it. Ya it felt a little lighter I guess but I hated it and I rode it on some gnarly stuff...I know, how can you not like the ultimate woods bike....but when I got back on my bike I was all smiles, I'll take the little extra weight any time and I'm 60 years old. There's just nothing like a well tuned 450....and I've heard a million times how the 300 is just as torquey and rode 3 of them now and they're not, period. So my point is, I'm going to be on a 450 and a little weight penalty is OK for some of us. I'm not interested in stripping down a wr a fiddling around and I need elec. start, kickstand and 6 speed. And...Yamaha reliability.

  • stevethe

Posted June 28, 2015 - 07:09 AM

#37

The 450fx will be a great bike and I'm 99% sure I'll get one. It's not going to be a featherweight but I'm confident it will be a great upgrade to my 05 wr, which by the way has been an absolute awesome bike. I recently got the opportunity to ride my buddies "featherweight" brand new 300xcw which I was sure that I would come away really wanting one...I really wanted to like it. Ya it felt a little lighter I guess but I hated it and I rode it on some gnarly stuff...I know, how can you not like the ultimate woods bike....but when I got back on my bike I was all smiles, I'll take the little extra weight any time and I'm 60 years old. There's just nothing like a well tuned 450....and I've heard a million times how the 300 is just as torquey and rode 3 of them now and they're not, period. So my point is, I'm going to be on a 450 and a little weight penalty is OK for some of us. I'm not interested in stripping down a wr a fiddling around and I need elec. start, kickstand and 6 speed. And...Yamaha reliability.

 

The 300 T2 definitely do not have the bottom end of a 450. They also don't cruse on roads that well. However other than that they make great bikes.



  • RMK800

Posted June 28, 2015 - 08:14 AM

#38

The 300 T2 definitely do not have the bottom end of a 450. They also don't cruse on roads that well. However other than that they make great bikes.


I just ride my buddies 300 2T in a 50 mile single track loop we really like. I wanted to do the entire ride to see how I would like it. Loop has everything from steep long hills to technical rock sections. It's not for me. That freaking motor feels like it's constantly being wound up fast and it's winds down just as fast. I know the 4 stroke does a bit of the same, but it's different. I hated having to always blip the clutch to wind it back up. Also when standing I can feel my boots vibrating and after the ride I had some serious hand/arm pump, never had that on my WR. Suspension is very average. I would rather deal with the extra weight.

  • stevethe

Posted June 28, 2015 - 08:20 AM

#39

I just ride my buddies 300 2T in a 50 mile single track loop we really like. I wanted to do the entire ride to see how I would like it. Loop has everything from steep long hills to technical rock sections. It's not for me. That freaking motor feels like it's constantly being wound up fast and it's winds down just as fast. I know the 4 stroke does a bit of the same, but it's different. I hated having to always blip the clutch to wind it back up. Also when standing I can feel my boots vibrating and after the ride I had some serious hand/arm pump, never had that on my WR. Suspension is very average. I would rather deal with the extra weight.


My son tried a new KTM 300 six days enduro in one of our very technical hill climbs called the Dog Trap and it wasn't pretty. He rips up it on his WR450. They lack off idle performance which is not measured on a Dyno.

  • tomerb

Posted June 28, 2015 - 08:46 AM

#40

Hope they look like this..........Only with lights, kickstand and electric start.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 2016 yellow Yamaha.jpg






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