TPS Question


28 replies to this topic
  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 16, 2015 - 10:24 PM

#21

You guys are a crackup, actually.

Naturally I take that as a compliment.

 

You know those three marks on your stock flywheel that are separated by 5 degrees each?  ;)

Hmm, you lost me here. 

I remember the flywheel more like have a looong, strip spanning 45° crank degrees, that is presumed

to create some pulse 45° before TDC and the reverse pulse at 0° TDC inside the pickup coil.

 

The former is only relevant when the engine is actually running, eabling the CDI to caclulate any position

between 45° BTDC and TDC as desired time to ignite.

 

The latter being the hardcoded ignition timing for "not yet really running" engine speeds, e.g. during starting.

 

Igniting at 0° BTDC guarantees, that the engine cannot kick back, even when kicked with ridiculously low effort.

 

the '03 flywheel looked looked roughly like this:

$_12.JPG

 

but it's a very long time ago that I was down there.

(On my late XT600 I made frequent visits to the coils to solder them back together, never been down there on my WRs)


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 17, 2015 - 04:31 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted June 17, 2015 - 06:45 AM

#22

The timing marks.  There's the TDC mark and another pair 5 and 10 degrees farther forward that are the ignition timing marks for strobe checks at idle.  The base idle timing is about 8 degrees.  Your comment regarding the aftermarket ignition seems to suggest you thought Yamaha set it at 0; they don't.



  • beairmo

Posted June 18, 2015 - 05:30 AM

#23

OMG... Talk about Deju Vu! We have beat this subject into the ground, dug it up and beat it some more.

 

Listen to everything Kranie say. Plus use the search for Dynatek ignition and you will find a lot of threads on the subject. Should pin it.

 

I have spent the better part of my life the last few years trying to eliminate the surge on my O9. Replaced the TPS then entire carb. Then went to the Dynatek ignition. When you get into the software on the Dynatek it will all make perfect sense. The only input to the ECU controlling the MAP is the TPS. It doesn't know anything about engine RPM's, temperature, crank angle, rider weight, hair color, penis length, etc. The best thing about the Dynatek is that you can do a calibration of the TPS making it work as best as it can.

 

You can unplug the TPS, but you will be experiencing a severe loss of power in mid to high RPMs. Worse than leaving bike corked IMHO.

 

In retrospect, just ride the WR450 in the dirt and you will never experience the surge. That bike was not designed for the street and trying to make it smooth will make you want to sell it. But in the dirt it dominates. 

 

Anyone want to buy a couple gently used TPS's and try to fix the surge?



  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 18, 2015 - 05:48 AM

#24

A for effort, but F for attention:

 

The only input to the ECU controlling the MAP is the TPS.

The OP asked about a 2006 WR surging.

The non-EFI CDI controls ignition advance only, and they do not control "MAP".

 

 

It doesn't know anything about engine RPM's, temperature, crank angle, rider weight, hair color, penis length, etc.

The Dynatek ECU as well as any OEM WR ECU does know about engine rpm, it has to.

If you look at the 3D graph for the yamaha 3D map, you'll see rpm as one controlling input axis.

If you look at the 2D TPS-graphs of the Dynatek 3D map, you'll see rpm as input value on the X-axis.

 

Both CDIs calculate ignition advance from current engine rpm AND tps value

(2 input coords, that is why it's called an ingnition map.

 were the advance dependend olny on one value it'd be called ignition curve)


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 18, 2015 - 06:16 AM.


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  • stevethe

Posted June 18, 2015 - 06:06 AM

#25

OMG... Talk about Deju Vu! We have beat this subject into the ground, dug it up and beat it some more.

 

Listen to everything Kranie say. Plus use the search for Dynatek ignition and you will find a lot of threads on the subject. Should pin it.

 

I have spent the better part of my life the last few years trying to eliminate the surge on my O9. Replaced the TPS then entire carb. Then went to the Dynatek ignition. When you get into the software on the Dynatek it will all make perfect sense. The only input to the ECU controlling the MAP is the TPS. It doesn't know anything about engine RPM's, temperature, crank angle, rider weight, hair color, penis length, etc. The best thing about the Dynatek is that you can do a calibration of the TPS making it work as best as it can.

 

You can unplug the TPS, but you will be experiencing a severe loss of power in mid to high RPMs. Worse than leaving bike corked IMHO.

 

In retrospect, just ride the WR450 in the dirt and you will never experience the surge. That bike was not designed for the street and trying to make it smooth will make you want to sell it. But in the dirt it dominates. 

 

Anyone want to buy a couple gently used TPS's and try to fix the surge?

 

Well they are dual sport street bikes in other countries and they make a pretty smooth street bike with the addition of the Dynatek IMO. But yes you will not remove the studder without a Dynatek tuned to the torque map.

In the early days I even tried a Vortex x10 Ignition on the torque map and it still had the studder on the street. It was suppose to work but did not on my supermoto bike. However I put it on my dirt WR450 and no studder even on the most aggressive 06 YZ450 map. Go figure. :ride:



  • grayracer513

Posted June 18, 2015 - 06:48 AM

#26

The only input to the ECU controlling the MAP is the TPS. It doesn't know anything about engine RPM's...

 
 
Steve.  Answer one question: If the ECU is unaware of the RPM of the engine, how is the advance altered as RPM increases, either at a steady throttle, or with the TPS disconnected?
 



  • bobpara

Posted June 18, 2015 - 11:29 AM

#27

I ordered a new ignition from Dynatek per  Karannie's suggestion

.....Any idea where the ignition module I am replacing is located?



  • grayracer513

Posted June 18, 2015 - 01:58 PM

#28

Left side subframe, behind the airbox (#11)

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

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  • bobpara

Posted June 22, 2015 - 12:32 PM

#29

Krannie: I got the Dynatek Unit per your suggestion and in the instructions were the ignition curves exactly like you show

It seems to run good with #4 or #2 map, the other two I get a bit of a stammer 

.....i cant tell a difference between #4 & #2.....theoretically #2 is more power

I have nice 'fat' jetting (not lean stock) so map #2 should be able to take advantage of the advance

.....Do you see similar?


But that 'stammer' at constant throttle position did definitely go away!






 
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