WR450F'12 chicken shed DynoRuns


13 replies to this topic
  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 09, 2015 - 04:49 PM

#1

Finally I've got todays DynoRuns onto my PC.

I did some runs with my '12 with Yamaha racing header and muffler

(that means it is the open power version, no O2 sensor, racing ECU)

 

- stock (WR cam),  with pea shooter end cap

- YZ exhaust cam, pea shooter end cap

- YZ cam, 20mm end cap, no spark arrestor

- YZ cam, 20mm end cap, no spark arrestor, no airbox snorkel

- and the best run of my '03, WR cam, no airbox lid, stock non-US muffler

 

The results are so so, maybe it's the intake cam, maybe the dyno (12 years of no maintennance)

the '03 with WR(!) cam won hands down.

What did I learn:

1. the pea shouter has to go

2. the YZ cam did not much

3. dumping the intak snorkel did quite some good

A pity that I didn't reverse the runs in first dumping the pea shooter and then going to YZ cam.

Hard to believe that the YZ cam does nothing as long as the pea shooter it not removed.

 

Attached are the hp and torque as separate diagrams, to prevent cluttering.

 

WR450F_12_Dyno_power.JPG

That is the power comparison

 

WR450F_12_Dyno_torque.JPG

even more impressive the torque differences.


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 09, 2015 - 04:54 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted June 09, 2015 - 05:46 PM

#2

Well all you have to do to the 2012 model is pull a rabbit out of your hat and get 5 more HP. Then you will be equal to a carb'd version of a YZ'd WR450 that's been opened up.

Edited by stevethe, June 09, 2015 - 05:47 PM.


  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 09, 2015 - 06:03 PM

#3

Well all you have to do to the 2012 model is pull a rabbit out of your hat and get 5 more HP. Then you will be equal to a carb'd version of a YZ'd WR450 that's been opened up.

Somehow sad that this great all 'lectronics, MAP-sensor-knows-it-all, high-tech cable-harness-mess

is not as good/efficient as an old carbureted engine, which even hadn't been jetted/optimized properly.

 

Thaking into account that in '03 one got whole 30-something kW power listed in the european licensing docs,

and today I've go ~10kW in my papers, the old days really were the better ones.


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 09, 2015 - 06:04 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted June 09, 2015 - 06:12 PM

#4

Somehow sad that this great all 'lectronics, MAP-sensor-knows-it-all, high-tech cable-harness-mess
is not as good/efficient as an old carbureted engine, which even hadn't been jetted/optimized properly.
 
Thaking into account that in '03 one got whole 30-something kW power listed in the european licensing docs,
and today I've go ~10kW in my papers, the old days really were the better ones.


Umm a 07-11 WR450 pumping out 48+ RWHP on a current dyno jet is usually optimized and jetted quite well.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted June 09, 2015 - 06:53 PM

#5

Finally I've got todays DynoRuns onto my PC.

I did some runs with my '12 with Yamaha racing header and muffler

(that means it is the open power version, no O2 sensor, racing ECU)

 

- stock (WR cam),  with pea shooter end cap

- YZ exhaust cam, pea shooter end cap

- YZ cam, 20mm end cap, no spark arrestor

- YZ cam, 20mm end cap, no spark arrestor, no airbox snorkel

- and the best run of my '03, WR cam, no airbox lid, stock non-US muffler

 

The results are so so, maybe it's the intake cam, maybe the dyno (12 years of no maintennance)

the '03 with WR(!) cam won hands down.

What did I learn:

1. the pea shouter has to go

2. the YZ cam did not much

3. dumping the intak snorkel did quite some good

A pity that I didn't reverse the runs in first dumping the pea shooter and then going to YZ cam.

Hard to believe that the YZ cam does nothing as long as the pea shooter it not removed.

 

Attached are the hp and torque as separate diagrams, to prevent cluttering.

 

attachicon.gifWR450F_12_Dyno_power.JPG

That is the power comparison

 

attachicon.gifWR450F_12_Dyno_torque.JPG

even more impressive the torque differences.

 

 

 

 

The YZ EX cam is a mild improvement, as has be mentioned in hundreds of posts already.

 

Until you re-map the GYTR ECR for best a/f ratio, you will not see any improvements other that cooler running.

Especially the ignition curve.

 

No one ever said that FI is a performance increase by itself. It's just an electronic carb. 

 

Your overwhelming need to find answers is comendeble, but your methods leave out so many variables, it borders on meaningless.



  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 09, 2015 - 10:16 PM

#6

Umm a 07-11 WR450 pumping out 48+ RWHP on a current dyno jet is usually optimized and jetted quite well.

You got me wrong, I didn't question that, I was just referring to my '03,

who created that torque curve back in 2003, sitting above all the '12 curves in my comparison.

 

All I did back then was distilling some main jet, needle type and needle clip position from reading a bus load of mostly

american jetting recommendations of which none was using the european/oceanian exhaust we european were presented.

 

No one knows what power my bike would have produced if I had had the time and opportunity to really dial her in on a

dyno with a/f ratio measurement, and provided with 100 Keihin needles and a weeks time.


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 09, 2015 - 11:12 PM.


  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 09, 2015 - 10:38 PM

#7

, but your methods leave out so many variables, it borders on meaningless.

That is why I named the thread "chicken shed DynoRuns". It was around 1998 that Rich Rohrich called all the dyno run backed claims chicken shed runs,

because they typically miss a controlled environment of air temp/pressure, and especially coolant water temp, not to mention suitable or at least identical rear wheel tyre. 

The results people were producing were bordering on randomness or at least they were not comparable among different bikes let alonge dynojet stands.

 

In so far not much has changed: With people changing many varaibles at once, and most of them having to pay for dyno runs,

and none of them being able to afford exhaustive amounts of runs (see my issue with not being able to test all combinations of the small amount of things I could change)

deducting any causality between "hp change" and "variable modification" is very like snake oil propaganda.  

 

History repeats itself.  That's where the term chicken shed dyno was coined

https://groups.googl...2k/UhzyCZtUp5MJ

And here is where the retarding of WR cams started: https://groups.googl...s4/v4q1TcYckQoJ

Initially the rags reported it backwards: https://groups.googl...tQ/_HS8yo6yx1kJ


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 09, 2015 - 11:15 PM.


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  • chu

Posted June 10, 2015 - 03:54 AM

#8

The intake cam still has about 1mm less lift than a YZ cam.  Gotta get more air in to get more air out.



  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 10, 2015 - 06:59 AM

#9

The intake cam still has about 1mm less lift than a YZ cam.  Gotta get more air in to get more air out.

1mm? Damn! :lame:  

 

Is there any TT approved compilation of verified cam data of WRs and YZs?

 

I seem to recall that for the WR  and YZ model years 03,04 and 05

the intake cam were in fact identical (5TA-12170-00-00).

 

Where can I find the changes starting with '06 and onwards?


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 10, 2015 - 07:01 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted June 16, 2015 - 11:02 PM

#10

I think its meaningless to add a cam to a FI WR450F without addressing exhaust first. 

 

Removing the pea shooter might make the stock exhaust loud, but I'm not sure it flows as well as an FMF or other aftermarket pipe.  For kicks I pulled the pea shooter from my exhaust and rode it briefly before installing my FMF muffler.  The increased exhaust note probably skews one's perception, but I thought my engine ran better with the FMF than with the pea shooter removed.

 

Much to the chagrin of many here, I compiled a spreadsheet of cam data last summer.  Search my posts.

 

You have to remember that the FI 450F head has high port volume whereas previous heads have much lower port volumes.   That will affect how various cams work in it, or so I'm told.  Too much overlap or duration is going to cause issues.

 

I'm running an 08 exhaust cam and FMF muffler on my WR450F..  It really wakes it up.  Less exhaust braking, wider powerband, smoother low end, more low end torque.  Its a dramatic improvement for woods riding.

 

Used cams are inexpensive, easily changed and easily resold.  If you are looking for an optimum setup and have access to a dyno, its worth testing a few.  I would, but I'm too happy with how my engine runs to be motivated to search for more performance.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, June 16, 2015 - 11:06 PM.


  • foggy3061

Posted June 17, 2015 - 12:26 AM

#11

 

Where can I find the changes starting with '06 and onwards?

 

You could compare the cam part numbers from the Yamaha part catalogues and cam dimensions from the Yamaha workshop manuals (all available as free download from Yamaha).



  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 17, 2015 - 12:56 AM

#12

from the Yamaha workshop manuals (all available as free download from Yamaha).

What is the link to WR workshop manuals downalod? 

I only have seen many links to owner's manual download.


Edited by WRF-Rowdy, June 17, 2015 - 12:57 AM.


  • foggy3061

Posted June 17, 2015 - 01:01 AM

#13

The 2012 onward FI only seem to have owners manual available to download but the non FI bikes have full workshop manuals (which have a few of the cam dimensions) available:

http://www.yamaha-mo...uals/index.aspx

Parts catalogues here:

http://www.yamaha-mo...oss&mode=WR450F

  • WRF-Rowdy

Posted June 17, 2015 - 04:28 AM

#14

The 2012 onward FI only seem to have owners manual available to download but the non FI bikes have full workshop manuals (which have a few of the cam dimensions) available:

http://www.yamaha-mo...uals/index.aspx

And right you are! :thumbsup:     I've only checked for the pdf of my 2012 WR but

that is the first model year where they do not publish the service manual anymore.

 

I got me all YZ450 and WR450 service manuals for '03, :devil:

who knows when some IP &%$#@! might decide to take them offline.






 
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