Easy task gone wrong


8 replies to this topic
  • eng208

Posted April 08, 2015 - 11:17 AM

#1

Had a bad day today. Decided to install my Scott stainless oil filter since my oil is due to be changed soon anyway. When I removed the lower filter cover bolt, the threads were boogered. This is the second time I have taken it out and the first time I have noticed the issue. I pulled a tap and die and fixed them but decided to install a ball bearing like Gray posted in the prevention thread. My threads were not messed up to bad so I figured the hardest part was going to be finding a ball bearing. After about an hour of searching, I finally found something in the shop with a bearing the right size and retrieved it. After meticulously covering all of the holes and sticking a q tip in the drain hole, I drilled a hole that would allow the ball to countersink with out falling through and staked it. All was well, until I removed the q tip. The stick came out, leaving the cotton in the threaded hole with no way to get to the back side. I tried screws, drill bits,  and finally an EZ out. I got about half of it with the other half no where to be found. I flushed the bottom end with a whole can of brake cleaner but never got any cotton to come out of the drain. I buttoned it back up and disconnected the spark plug until I can figure out what to do. 

Any suggestions?



  • FloRider

Posted April 08, 2015 - 11:37 AM

#2

Could try pushing in a straightened fishing hook, the barbs might do the trick. Or see if you can pressure up the hole behind the cotton with compressed air.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 08, 2015 - 11:38 AM

#3

You could actually leave it there.  Odds are that it will stay put, and even if it doesn't, a wad consisting of half the tip of a Q-Tip isn't going to be able to cause any trouble before it gets thoroughly shredded.  If you're determined to retrieve it, you'll need to drain the oil and coolant and pull the right side case cover.  You may have even pushed it all the way through and out into the primary gear case already. 



  • eng208

Posted April 08, 2015 - 12:06 PM

#4

You could actually leave it there.  Odds are that it will stay put, and even if it doesn't, a wad consisting of half the tip of a Q-Tip isn't going to be able to cause any trouble before it gets thoroughly shredded.  If you're determined to retrieve it, you'll need to drain the oil and coolant and pull the right side case cover.  You may have even pushed it all the way through and out into the primary gear case already. 

It is.  The threads are clean. It had to go through into the primary case. I flushed with brake cleaner but the cotton never came out of the drain hole. I was thinking about filling the case with some oil and then draining it. I poured out the old oil that I put a little cotton in to see how it would react and it flowed with the oil. My thought behind that is the viscous fluid may carry the cotton out the drain. I know it is not captive in the bolt hole. I really don't want to have to remove the case cover. That means replacing gaskets, creating potential for leaks, and not to mention something else going wrong. 

My concern is the cotton getting sucked up by the oil pump and clogging it or blocking a passage to starve my fresh motor of oil and turning it into a worthless hunk of junk.

Please continue with some suggestions. I'm heading to school now. I think I'll still be in college when I start drawing Social Security. LOL 



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  • eng208

Posted April 08, 2015 - 06:09 PM

#5

I filled the bottom end with oil and drained two times. Never did see the little ball of cotton come out. Still not ready to take the side cover off quite yet. Not going to be able to ride for a couple of weeks anyway so I will think about this for a while. Still open to suggestions. Gray, you don't think this little ball of fiber will cause a problem in the oil system if it gets sucked up? I interested in hearing anything.



  • grayracer513

Posted April 08, 2015 - 09:25 PM

#6

I think the biggest hazard would be the probably remote possibility of the swab running between the oil pump drive gears at one point or other.  It’s not very likely unless it happens to you.  The cotton wad would have to be solid enough to break the gears in that case, and I’m not sure it would be.  Take one and wet it with your engine oil and/or any grease you were using on it and see what it does when you squeeze it.  I’ve used them to dab grease before, and they don’t hold up to that very well at all.  Yours may well just fall apart.  You’re sure you didn’t lose any of the stick?

So then, there’s fibers in the oil.  Oil has to flow into the primary case, then drain down and out to the central sump area, where it gets picked up by the scavenging pump, then returned to the tank to be pumped back through again.  The scavenging, or return pump, has at least twice the physical volume of the feed pump that delivers oil to the crank, cams and transmission.  It also has nothing to push against except the open oil passage back to the tank, so it moves oil out of the sump faster than it gets there when things are working right. The screen on the oil pickup stops anything larger than about 2-3mm, and is 2 inches across, so a cotton swab couldn’t clog it or bypass it whole.  Fibers that passed through the screen would be easily fed through the pump.  

Then, the feed pump would pick them up and pump them directly into your new filter, before they ever get into anything important.  I’ve seen engines digest much worse.

But….



  • eng208

Posted April 09, 2015 - 12:05 PM

#7

If I decide to remove the cover on the right side, which gaskets will I need? Thanks Gray. I think I'll be too worried about it if I don't see where it went.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 09, 2015 - 01:06 PM

#8

The round clutch cover can stay in place. You'll need the crankcase cover/crankcase  gasket.  It would be a good idea to replace the crank shaft oil seal, and the impeller shaft seals at the same time.  They're pretty cheap, and it could  save you a job later.

 

What year/model?  You never said.



  • eng208

Posted April 09, 2015 - 01:23 PM

#9

It is an 03 with about 10 honest hours. It was sold as 20 hours, but the seller actually says it is about half that and it shows. You can look at my earlier post that has pictures. The case covers and frame barely had any marks on them. I have since installed an hour meter and was in process of doing this mod. Thanks again for all of your help. I know I keep stating that, but it seems you really know these 450s and it is rassuring knowing that. I will get the gaskets and seals ordered later on tonight. Is there anything I need to check or tend to while I am in there?







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