Right oil for my yz450f



35 replies to this topic
  • x_JT_x

Posted February 04, 2015 - 08:40 AM

#21

Maybe I'm losing my mind but it sounded like that's exactly what you said...regardless, I have UOAs that show T6 holds up very well in a high-shear environment and will continue using it. I'm not the type to waste money on high-dollar oils for minimal performance improvement over something like T6. To each their own.


How recent were the UOAs done? I'd love to make the switch to a budget full synthetic if it will hold up well. I just don't like the idea of constantly changing my oil. Each ride I do is probably 4 hours so if I could get two or three rides between changes on t6 that would be great.

  • grayracer513

Posted February 04, 2015 - 09:23 AM

#22

I doubt you actually spend 4 hours with the engine running, but some do, so that might be you, too.  Even with the two best oils I know of and use, I don't go more than 8 hours unless it's a very long multi-day trip with no racing involved.  Oil's too cheap at any price currently charged, and there's only 1 quart needed.

 

 

Maybe I'm losing my mind but it sounded like that's exactly what you said...regardless, I have UOAs that show T6 holds up very well in a high-shear environment and will continue using it. I'm not the type to waste money on high-dollar oils for minimal performance improvement over something like T6. To each their own.

 

 

Your paraphrase:

 

...what Gray said was that older 5w oils used to shear to a lower viscosity very quickly and acknowledged that that is no longer the case with newer oils

 

What I said:

 

 

... it is nonetheless true that the lower the "winter" oil weight, the more the oil will depend on the addition of VII's to make it a 40 wt at 200, and that means that it will be more subject to viscosity loss due to additive degradation from shear.  A 5w-X, then, is more likely to fall out of grade early than the same type and quality of a 10w-X. 

 

Nothing there about older vs. newer, because it's still true in a general sense.  Actual oil performance depends on the additive package of the specific oil.



  • x_JT_x

Posted February 04, 2015 - 09:43 AM

#23

This is true, I don't spend the whole time with it on. In a WR you should get 2x the service intervals with 2x the oil, right?

Edit
Wrong! Wr takes 1.2 not 2x

Edited by x_JT_x, February 04, 2015 - 10:37 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted February 04, 2015 - 10:04 AM

#24

The WR doesn't have twice the oil capacity as a YZF; it's the same.



  • BMcEL

Posted February 04, 2015 - 10:35 AM

#25

grayracer513, on 03 Feb 2015 - 4:29 PM, said:

It was always a good oil apart from that shortcoming, but that was why I wouldn't use it.  Things have changed since then.  Not sure of when, but they have.

 

grayracer513, on 04 Feb 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Nothing there about older vs. newer...

 

"Things have changed since then. Not sure of when, but they have." Nothing there about older vs. newer? I guess I am losing my mind.



  • x_JT_x

Posted February 04, 2015 - 10:36 AM

#26

Good lord I'm mixing up bikes. Don't take any thing I've said seriously.

Too many bikes to remember how much it takes apparently..

Would you say trail riding will get more, or less life out of oil?

And do you follow the "once you go synthetic you can't switch back" "rule"? I don't like the idea of being stuck with synth but I would like to run it for awhile.

  • BMcEL

Posted February 04, 2015 - 10:38 AM

#27

How recent were the UOAs done? I'd love to make the switch to a budget full synthetic if it will hold up well. I just don't like the idea of constantly changing my oil. Each ride I do is probably 4 hours so if I could get two or three rides between changes on t6 that would be great.

 

I don't like sharing my UOAs very often because people take them out of context. If you want to know what's going on inside your motor, do your own UOAs. They are relatively cheap and have many more benefits than just keeping an eye on oil life...establishing a UOA history for an engine can alert you to things like bearing failure before they happen. 

 

If you don't like constantly changing your oil, you shouldn't be running Yamalube 10w-40. It was the worst performer out of the four oils on the UOA I posted earlier.

 

Pick whichever oil you want to run, run it for whatever your normal 4 hour ride is, and send off a sample for analysis. That is the only way to know how your oil is holding up, everything else is just guesswork. Riding conditions have a very large affect on oil life...I could push T6 to probably 20 hours or more on my motard setup but the same oil in the same bike reaches the same wear level in just 3-4 hours on the dunes. The phrase "your mileage may vary" comes to mind.



  • BMcEL

Posted February 04, 2015 - 10:41 AM

#28

And do you follow the "once you go synthetic you can't switch back" "rule"?

 

No.



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  • grayracer513

Posted February 04, 2015 - 10:53 AM

#29


"Things have changed since then. Not sure of when, but they have." Nothing there about older vs. newer? I guess I am losing my mind.

 

That statement refers specifically to Rotella, not to older vs. newer 5w-X oils in general.

 

 

... do you follow the "once you go synthetic you can't switch back" "rule"?

 

That's not a rule, it's BS.  Comes from a complete misunderstanding of what the differences between synthetic and natural petroleum products really are.



  • Rizzky

Posted February 04, 2015 - 02:10 PM

#30

Thanks for all the feedback but i have somehow gotten lost between all of the back and forth on UOA talk, haha.

 

So just wanted to summarize; 

 

I can run either a 5W-40 or a 10W-40 in a motul fully synthetic and that would be fine, correct? 

 

Also, i will not be doing any motocross racing as such and i dont believe i will be riding the bike anywhere near its capability for at least a year or so. having said that, how often should i be changing the oil? my thoughts are for every 5-7 hours, agree? 

 

Thanks



  • grayracer513

Posted February 04, 2015 - 02:47 PM

#31

Should be alright, but the only way to know is with a UOA.  Change it every third ride day.



  • North River

Posted February 04, 2015 - 07:19 PM

#32

For you guys interested,check out Bobistheoilguy.com

 

They're into motor oil like this place is into riding.



  • Wiz636

Posted February 05, 2015 - 11:25 PM

#33

You should run a top tier MC specific full synthetic that is rated JASO MA/MA2, and API SG/SH or higher, or a high grade synthetic "Commercial" service oil (API "C*" that meets these standards).  If you can find one that's actually labeled for gear service (API GL1 or higher), even better.  Change it after not more than 8 hours run time.

 

I am not an oil expert and just want to understand what means what.

 

If I understand it correctly the JASO MA/MA2 standard means that it is suitable for use with a wet clutch, i.e. does not contain friction modifiers that would cause slippage?

 

I did a quick search and it looks like both the API SG & SH standards are now labeled as 'obsolete' and are for 1993 and older and 1996 and older engines respectively and have been replaced with the SL/SJ standard. I assume these refer to automobile engines and perhaps this has something to do with emmissions?  Is this not a relevant issue for our dirt bike engines?

 

Lastly, it seems as though our biggest concern with an oil is it's ability to withstand the shearing forces that it is subjected to in the transmission, correct? Aside from the API GL1 certification (which seems rare in a motor oil) is there anyway for us to know how well an oil will hold up to those forces other than sending used oil to be tested after the fact?



  • Zackdocks

Posted February 06, 2015 - 07:45 AM

#34

Has anyone tried the new amsoil dirt line? Seems like a bit of a marketing gimmick to me

  • grayracer513

Posted February 06, 2015 - 08:02 AM

#35

JASO MA/MA2 does mean that the oil is compatible with wet clutches.

 

API SG/SH is indeed obsolete as an automotive standard, but its replacement by SJ oils is one of the things that set off the JASO MA thing in the first place.  EPA wanted phosphorus removed from car oils because it monkeyed with the catalytic converter.  Problem with that is that the best anti-wear, or barrier lubricants were phosphorus based.  The first MA oils were loaded with it, and not labeled as SJ.  Since then, other compounds have been found to substitute for the old ones, so an oil labeled SJ/SL these days is OK in that regard.

 

Unfortunately, only Amsoil out of everyone I have looked at labels their oil as GL1 capable.  Others actually are, like Mobil 1 Racing 4T and V-Twin, but without you or someone else testing, there is no way to know.

 

I have not used nor studied the new Amsoil dirt bike line, but what it appears is that they have taken some sort of step to help the clutch work more consistently over a wide range of temperature.  I'm sure it's up to the job, I just don't know if there's really any more to it that MCF.



  • Zackdocks

Posted February 06, 2015 - 11:01 AM

#36

Thanks Gray. Thats what interested me in it, I notice an inconsistent clutch feel on my yz while riding trails and would like to take steps to make it more consistent





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