Right oil for my yz450f



35 replies to this topic
  • Rizzky

Posted February 01, 2015 - 12:19 AM

#1

I am a newbie and I know this is a bit of a touchy subject because people do ask "what is the best oil to run" to which the answer would be different from every person as it is based on personal preference, but i wont be asking what is the best brand as i have already narrowed that down for myself to either Motul or Amsoil. 

 

However i would like to know what is the best oil to run in my 2012 YZ450 for my conditions (not brand) here in Sydney Australia. The weather is anywhere from 70-95 deg F for the next 3-4 months and it doesn't generally get any colder than 50 deg F even in the winter. So based on some of my reading i am thinking that a 10W-40 would be best for me but i would love some advice if this is correct.

 

Now i dont know if this makes any difference but i am also running a hydrolic clutch. 

 

Something i am also unsure of is if i should run a fully synthetic, semi synthetic, or non-synthetic oil. 

 

Thank you



  • x_JT_x

Posted February 01, 2015 - 12:41 AM

#2

You can never fail in a yamaha bike if you run yamalube 10-40 or 20-50. 10-40 for that bike.

Everyone will have their own opinions, the oil that was designed for that motor will work well, and is what I choose to use. A second option is Rotella T-6, it's a full synthetic that can be had very cheaply. It's not the longest lasting but at the price you can change it often which is good since it will keep your motor clean. I myself run either yamalube or just some semi synthetic, I don't use full synth. I'm sure it lubes great but the stuff looks like water it's so thin cold..

  • grayracer513

Posted February 01, 2015 - 07:47 AM

#3

Either Amsoil MCV (20w-50) or MCF (10w-40) or the Motul is a good choice.  10w-40 is good up to 110℉, or down to about 20℉, so it really pretty much covers it, but I prefer 20w-50 when the temps stay up around 95℉ most of the time.

 

You should run a top tier MC specific full synthetic that is rated JASO MA/MA2, and API SG/SH or higher, or a high grade synthetic "Commercial" service oil (API "C*" that meets these standards).  If you can find one that's actually labeled for gear service (API GL1 or higher), even better.  Change it after not more than 8 hours run time.



  • Gunner354

Posted February 01, 2015 - 02:02 PM

#4

You can never fail in a yamaha bike if you run yamalube 10-40 or 20-50. 10-40 for that bike.

Everyone will have their own opinions, the oil that was designed for that motor will work well, and is what I choose to use. A second option is Rotella T-6, it's a full synthetic that can be had very cheaply. It's not the longest lasting but at the price you can change it often which is good since it will keep your motor clean. I myself run either yamalube or just some semi synthetic, I don't use full synth. I'm sure it lubes great but the stuff looks like water it's so thin cold..

Is the T6 a hybrid group III oil or a true synthetic group IV or group V. Know what you are buying by doing some research

  • x_JT_x

Posted February 01, 2015 - 05:32 PM

#5

Is the T6 a hybrid group III oil or a true synthetic group IV or group V. Know what you are buying by doing some research


Honestly have no clue which it is, but it is highly recommended as a motorcycle oil as it carries the JASO-MA rating without the normal JASO costs.

I personally run yamalube, as in my opinion it's the safest to run as the motor is designed around it.

  • mdsharon

Posted February 01, 2015 - 07:19 PM

#6

Any JASO-MA oil really, the motor is damn near bullet proof.



  • Rizzky

Posted February 01, 2015 - 08:00 PM

#7

The one which i am now looking at is a Motul 5W40 fully synthetic. 

 

As i am not too technical with this stuff i looked at the spec sheet and these are the standards;

 

PERFORMANCE

STANDARDS : API SL

APPROVAL : JASO MA under N°M033MOT085

 

Does this suffice? 



  • x_JT_x

Posted February 01, 2015 - 08:54 PM

#8

I may be incorrect, but I don't believe that motor should ever run on a 5-anything. If you can get that in 10-40 you should be good.

  • 1stSSPZ

Posted February 02, 2015 - 06:35 AM

#9

CLEAN oil...



  • North River

Posted February 02, 2015 - 04:45 PM

#10

I've seen oil analysis for Yamalube.It's nothing special. If it makes you feel good to run it by all means do.Just don't fall into the trap of thinking because it says Yamaha,it's the best for your bike. I've got almost $30k worth of Yamaha outboards on my boat. I don't even run Yamalube in them. They get Rotella 10w-30. All my bikes get Rotella 15w-40

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  • Rizzky

Posted February 03, 2015 - 01:45 PM

#11

I may be incorrect, but I don't believe that motor should ever run on a 5-anything. If you can get that in 10-40 you should be good.

Could you please advise why you think that i shouldn't run anything 5W? 



  • grayracer513

Posted February 03, 2015 - 02:39 PM

#12

He's not entirely correct, in the first place.  The labeling on multi-grade oils shows two viscosity numbers.  The first one, the one with the 'W', is the "winter" viscosity, which is not exactly what that is, either.  What it means is that when the oil is at 70 degrees, it has the same viscosity as an SAE 5 weight engine oil.  The second, higher number is the comparative viscosity at 200 degrees, so at that temp, a 5W-40 flows and pours the same as a single grade 40 weight would.  So does a 10w-40 and so does a 20w-40.  At operating temperature, there is no difference.  So he's mostly wrong.

 

The advantage of multi-grade oils is that they flow much more readily when cold, which can be very important on cold starts, particularly in really cold weather, although a 10w-40 will work perfectly well in temps down, to around 20-25 degrees F.  

 

But what is a factor has to do with how multi-grade oils are made.  The oil actually starts at the lightest grade indicated, so when making a 5w-40, the blender starts with a base oil stock that is SAE 5wt at 70 degrees.  A straight parafin base petroleum oil at this weight would actaully be a 5w-5 in practice, much too thin to use, so additives known as Viscosity Index Improvers (VII's) are used.  These are long chain polymers that become bulkier when heated, thickening the oil so that the result is that heat does not thin out the lubricant as much as it ordinarily would.  Enough VII's are added to get the desired result, in this case, a 5wt oil at 70 that is as thick as a normal 40 wt when heated, labeled as 5w-40.

 

The problem comes when the oil is used in a transmission.  The gearbox imparts a very heavy shearing force to the oil, and works to physically shred the large molecules of the polymer additives so they no longer prevent the thinning of the oil with heat, and you can end up running a oil that is really a 5w-20 in a surprisingly short time (as little as 2 hours run time) if the oil was an inexpensively blended lube intended only for use in engines.  The better oils use more expensive, but much tougher, polymers that were created for use in multi-grade gear oils, and the really good oils made today will last 4 to 5 times longer without falling below their rated weights. 

 

Most true synthetic base stocks (primarily poly-alpha olefins and esters) have a naturally higher viscosity index than natural pertoleum oils do, so a good PAO oil that is 5 weight cold may act like a 10 or 20 weight at 200 even without modification, but it is nonetheless true that the lower the "winter" oil weight, the more the oil will depend on the addition of VII's to make it a 40 wt at 200, and that means that it will be more subject to viscosity loss due to additive degradation from shear.  A 5w-X, then, is more likely to fall out of grade early than the same type and quality of a 10w-X.  So he's partly right, in some cases.



  • BMcEL

Posted February 03, 2015 - 04:15 PM

#13



The problem comes when the oil is used in a transmission.  The gearbox imparts a very heavy shearing force to the oil, and works to physically shred the large molecules of the polymer additives so they no longer prevent the thinning of the oil with heat, and you can end up running a oil that is really a 5w-20 in a surprisingly short time (as little as 2 hours run time) if the oil was an inexpensively blended lube intended only for use in engines.  The better oils use more expensive, but much tougher, polymers that were created for use in multi-grade gear oils, and the really good oils made today will last 4 to 5 times longer without falling below their rated weights. 

 

I'm not sure which 5w-40 you're referencing but Rotella T6 5w-40 resists shearing very well...almost as well as Rotella T 15w-40 and better than both Yamalube 10w-40 and and SuperTech (Quaker State?) 15w-40. Below are results after two hours of hard off-road use in a 450.

 

RotellaUOA_zpsffa8f1ea.png

 

I'm getting ready to send a sample off to Blackstone of the T6 in my motarded '08 YZ450F that has about 350 miles on it and will continue sending samples until I find an ideal change interval. I expect to be able get around 1000 miles or more on a change. Note that this is primarily street use so the average engine/transmission load is significantly less, however it is also worth noting that the T6 I drain out of my shared-case FZ-09 (also street use) is still in very good shape after 2000 miles. If it can withstand the shearing forces of that engine that well, it is perfectly fine for dirt bikes with relatively short OCIs.

 

Once my UOA budget recovers from the '08 samples, I will start sending samples from my '14 YZ450F (off-road use only) and expect to reach 4-5 hours between changes with room to spare.

 

Frequent changes are good insurance if you don't know what's going on inside the motor, but if you establish change intervals based on fact with UOAs rather than tradition or urban legend, you will generally double your numbers. The savings alone will more than pay for the UOAs, not to mention the saved trips to your nearest oil dump.

 

I'm not against changing oil prematurely, but I'm also not the type to order footlong subs and only eat a quarter of them every time.



  • grayracer513

Posted February 03, 2015 - 04:29 PM

#14

UOA's are the basis for my OCI's, too, as well as oil choice, along with specific lab test info.  I change mine usually after more than 3 hours, but something less than 8.  I've had UOA's for both Amsoil MCF and Mobil 1 Racing 4T with 10 on them that came back in grade, and the interior of my 300 hour engine verifies the choice.

 

But you are correct that it's the only way to know for certain. 

 

But it is also true that the ability to do what your UOA's demonstrate was not always a capability that any of the Rotella products had, and that was true of really most engine oils 10 as little as years ago.  During those times, up to perhaps 4 years ago, I've seen one sample after another of Rotella with 2-4 hours on it that came back with cSt numbers below 10.  It was always a good oil apart from that shortcoming, but that was why I wouldn't use it.  Things have changed since then.  Not sure of when, but they have.  A lot of other blenders have been catching on to the need for an upgrade in that regard, and it makes me wonder if there hasn't been some advance in VII's that's brought the price down, or if it was all market pressure driven.



  • x_JT_x

Posted February 03, 2015 - 05:21 PM

#15

I was actually going off a thread I read where gray had said basically what he just said, so that's The answer. I do heavy research before buying oils. I'm currently looking for a nice replacement for the yamalube in my wr450. I've got about 12 hours on the yamalube and it's looking great and shifting just like it did new. I will probably change it after one more ride, but I will say this oil gives an excellent shifting and clutch feel.

  • BMcEL

Posted February 03, 2015 - 07:32 PM

#16

I was actually going off a thread I read where gray had said basically what he just said, so that's The answer. I do heavy research before buying oils. I'm currently looking for a nice replacement for the yamalube in my wr450. I've got about 12 hours on the yamalube and it's looking great and shifting just like it did new. I will probably change it after one more ride, but I will say this oil gives an excellent shifting and clutch feel.

 

What's the answer? I don't get it...what Gray said was that older 5w oils used to shear to a lower viscosity very quickly and acknowledged that that is no longer the case with newer oils like T6 (as proven by the oil analysis I posted above and many, many other UOAs of T6). This completely contradicts your comment about not using "5-anything" in a YZ450F.

 

Any oil can be sheared down quicker than normal under certain circumstances. I've noticed significantly shorter oil life when riding at the dunes, for example. T6 holds up almost as well as the best of them (and for a fraction of the cost). If you want the best of the best, it's not T6. If you want the best bang for your buck, that's T6.

 

A strong 5w-40 like T6 will outperform 10w-40 and 15w-40 in almost every scenario. They are the same weight at operating temp but T6 will flow significantly better while the engine is cold.

 

I don't want to get too far into the oil debate but T6 is an awesome oil and I use it in everything but my truck (only because it calls for 0w-20 :jawdrop: ).


Edited by BMcEL, February 03, 2015 - 07:34 PM.


  • x_JT_x

Posted February 03, 2015 - 07:53 PM

#17

What's the answer? I don't get it...what Gray said was that older 5w oils used to shear to a lower viscosity very quickly and acknowledged that that is no longer the case with newer oils like T6 (as proven by the oil analysis I posted above and many, many other UOAs of T6). This completely contradicts your comment about not using "5-anything" in a YZ450F.

Any oil can be sheared down quicker than normal under certain circumstances. I've noticed significantly shorter oil life when riding at the dunes, for example. T6 holds up almost as well as the best of them (and for a fraction of the cost). If you want the best of the best, it's not T6. If you want the best bang for your buck, that's T6.

A strong 5w-40 like T6 will outperform 10w-40 and 15w-40 in almost every scenario. They are the same weight at operating temp but T6 will flow significantly better while the engine is cold.

I don't want to get too far into the oil debate but T6 is an awesome oil and I use it in everything but my truck (only because it calls for 0w-20 :jawdrop: ).


*Edit*
Nevermind, I guess I read his post wrong.

Edited by x_JT_x, February 04, 2015 - 08:37 AM.


  • BMcEL

Posted February 03, 2015 - 08:10 PM

#18

It does not contradict it. My info was from multiple years old threads, and it's still better to run 10w40.

T6 is a oil blended cheaply, so like gray said it will shear down to very light weight quickly. Yes it is JASO MA rated, but it's not designed for transmissions. There are plenty of oils with the same price that would hold up better. Off the top of my head, I think the delo 15-40 is supposed to be good for motorcycles (though maybe just the crf450)


And keep in mind I said I may be wrong in my first post.. Gray knows what he is talking about. If he says it's good then it's good.

 

I don't think we're reading the same thread...did you miss the UOA I posted above? T6 holds up very well and I have done numerous UOAs to confirm that. If you look at the Yamalube 10w-40 results on the UOA above compared to T6, the T6 outperformed it by a long shot under the same operating conditions.

 

Gray can comment on your interpretation of his posts, but I don't think you read the same ones I did.



  • grayracer513

Posted February 04, 2015 - 07:52 AM

#19

 
...what Gray said was that older 5w oils used to shear to a lower viscosity very quickly and acknowledged that that is no longer the case with newer oils like T6 (...

 

Not what I said.

 

T6 is a oil blended cheaply, so like gray said it will shear down to very light weight quickly. Yes it is JASO MA rated, but it's not designed for transmissions. There are plenty of oils with the same price that would hold up better. Off the top of my head, I think the delo 15-40 is supposed to be good for motorcycles (though maybe just the crf450)


And keep in mind I said I may be wrong in my first post.. Gray knows what he is talking about. If he says it's good then it's good.

 

If you believe that I know what I'm talking about, you should pay more attention and try not to distort what I say to fit your own agenda.  I have said in the past that Rotella will fall out of grade quickly for the reasons stated, and in the past, that was true and verifiable.  However, if you are going to form opinions based on fact, your opinions have to be adjusted as the underlying facts change.  The current rendition of T6 does much better, based on the analyses I've seen in the past two years (although I would like to see a sample with more time on it), so my opinion of it has changed.  I still won't use it, but it's serviceable if changed frequently.  

 

As for Delo, there is no reason whatsoever to assume that it's more suitable for use in motorcycles than Rotella or anything else. 

 

Frankly, I don't see much point in debating the matter with either of you, but I would appreciate it if neither of you would miscategorize what I have said about the subject.  



  • BMcEL

Posted February 04, 2015 - 08:14 AM

#20

 

It was always a good oil apart from that shortcoming, but that was why I wouldn't use it.  Things have changed since then.  Not sure of when, but they have. 

 

Not what I said.

 

Maybe I'm losing my mind but it sounded like that's exactly what you said...regardless, I have UOAs that show T6 holds up very well in a high-shear environment and will continue using it. I'm not the type to waste money on high-dollar oils for minimal performance improvement over something like T6. To each their own.







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