My Rebel X Rally / Desert bike build thread



62 replies to this topic
  • iggs

Posted January 29, 2015 - 08:44 AM

#1

In the next couple of weeks as the parts arrive I'm going to be building up a Rebel X kit onto the new WR450F that is currently passing through Dubai customs. Its in preparation for the Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge at the end of March.

 

I'm a n00b to the offroad bike thing. I started riding on the sand in April after deciding that I wanted to participate in the Challenge.

 

I've really enjoyed racking up the hours on my 2014 Gas Gas 450 over the summer. Even though I was travelling for a few weeks for work during the summer I still managed to average 30hrs a week racking up nearly 200hrs on the bike.

 

This came to a bit of an abrupt halt when I did something stupid and broke my ankle quite badly (2 operations, 14 pins and 2 plates)

 

I managed to get back on the bike again just before Xmas and I'm starting to feel like I'm nearly back on track.

 

My plan is to build up the WR from the crate stock then get it registered. If the kit is here then I'll build it up straight away. If not I'll put it together in more or less the form it will go back to post ADDC for general riding use here.

 

For general riding use I have a box full of bits sitting near me behind the sofa:

 

- FMF Hex Powercore Slip on

- Scotts with SUB mount

- Low rise pro taper bars to keep the position reasonably stock

- IMS 3 gallon tank

 

I think I've also decided to push the button on a Rekluse too but I'm still procrastinating about which one (any advice gratefully received)

 

Because of my lack of experience I've got loads of questions washing around in my head. I've been reading internet articles relentlessly. I've got quite a bit of experience mountain biking which lots of stuff relates to. I also use to ride a CBR600 (North Wales and various track days) when I was back in the UK. I have always done most of my own maintained on both leg powered and petrol powered bikes. I'm slow but can work it out in the end and i like knowing how things work.

 

I've been lucky enough to link up with James West and his crew. I'll be part of their team for the challenge and they are also guiding me through my learning / race preparation process.

 

Lots of the questions I'm currently looking into are to do with suspension set up. I'm working out the factors needed to get an ok base setting for both the Rally version of the bike and also the more standard desert configuration.

 

So I weigh about 80kg. I still need to weigh myself in riding kit. I'm guessing around the 85kg mark with water and boots.

 

To give you an idea of my riding and typical riding conditions here is a bit of chest mounted go pro footage from an early morning in the summer

 

 

With the IMS tank will I need to change up the springs on the front?

 

With the Rally bike we will of course need to beef up the springs all round. Full it carries 28 litres so thats an extra 20kg for starters. Then there is the additional weight of the tanks themselves, the nav tower and the bashplate with its tool box and 3 litres of water. If you hand to take a punt on the rating of the springs needed front and back what do you reckon they'll be. I have no idea how to work this out at the moment so any pointers on the calculations involved would be really appreciated

 

Hopefully I'll be able to post some build pictures on saturday. I'm dying to get my hands on the bike now :-)

 

 

 

 



  • patrick2wd

Posted January 30, 2015 - 12:47 AM

#2

Sounds good and interesting,

 

looking forward to what your experience with the kit is,

Im looking to trade my RXV to a WR-inj. but not sure when that's going to happen..

 

about springs,

be sure to get a good setup, as fuel (quite more with the kit) weight in an extra 15+ kgs, and you with helmet, gear, protection etc, I'd say rather 15 than your 5 kgs extra (unless you intend to ride naked)

I cant help you with the recluse, seems to be a good investment, but make sure you do the rear brake to your clutch handle aswel, as you cannot brake on the engine..

 

Im unsure about the rear tank of the rebel kit,
It seems rather high fitted, for what I have seen, hence you get a high center of gravity, which we dont want..

Get the gytr tuning module to alter the injection/ ignition set up, IMO a must have for this bike.

 

other things?

yes, have fun in the dunes...
 

Im rather jealous....



  • iggs

Posted February 01, 2015 - 03:25 AM

#3

about springs,
be sure to get a good setup, as fuel (quite more with the kit) weight in an extra 15+ kgs, and you with helmet, gear, protection etc, I'd say rather 15 than your 5 kgs extra (unless you intend to ride naked)

I need to check this. It is warm here but not that warm ;-)

 

I cant help you with the recluse, seems to be a good investment, but make sure you do the rear brake to your clutch handle aswel, as you cannot brake on the engine..

A search brought up this which seems to be different http://www.thumperta...with-a-rekluse/
 

Im unsure about the rear tank of the rebel kit,
It seems rather high fitted, for what I have seen, hence you get a high center of gravity, which we dont want..

I'm interested to see this too

Get the gytr tuning module to alter the injection/ ignition set up, IMO a must have for this bike.

The UK bikes come with the ECU included

 

other things?
yes, have fun in the dunes...
 
Im rather jealous....

Its tough in the gulf ;-)

  • patrick2wd

Posted February 01, 2015 - 03:45 AM

#4

its this unit I meant, not an ECU;

look for gytr power tuner

 

Check other companies for rear tanks,

a guy who works with the Dutch yamaha company is setting up a WR aswell for a show in Holland next month.
probebly in a garage near where I live, so I hope to check things out,

If you check a YZ450f, dakar model, the reartanks are fitted quite a bit lower, but unsure if these would fit the WR, due to the coolant water bottle on the rear right.

 

 

 

what you could do is send your supention to a company who can alter the caracteristics to your specs,

desert rally asks for another set-up compared to driving to your work.. (extra fuel/ you navigation stuff)

 

 

anyway,

you get the picture..

 

keep us updated !!!



  • patrick2wd

Posted February 01, 2015 - 06:19 AM

#5

or google:

2012+ Yamaha WR450 Rally Kit, Mecasystem

  • iggs

Posted February 01, 2015 - 06:38 AM

#6

This http://www.rallymana...-kit-mecasystem

+ 10,000 dollars!!! Thats a hefty wedge of cash

The Rebel X kit is 5,690 euro or 6,421 US$. Nearly 3000 dollars cheaper.

I'm not convinced on these very large rear tanks either. 26 in the back is a lot. Everything I heard about the French Yamaha 'factory' team in Dakar was problems with rear set up. Thats was a single rear fuel cell on a YZ

one of the things I REALLY like about the Rebel X kit is how useable it can be. Its very modular. It looks like it would be easy enough to run just the 18litre front tank, or maybe the nav tower with the std fuel tank for navigation training etc etc. The Mecca kit means the bike is either a rally bike OR a trail bike, not much adaptability. for the way I perceive the way I want to use my bike the Rebel X kit is much much more useful

  • patrick2wd

Posted February 02, 2015 - 03:08 AM

#7

This http://www.rallymana...-kit-mecasystem

+ 10,000 dollars!!! Thats a hefty wedge of cash

The Rebel X kit is 5,690 euro or 6,421 US$. Nearly 3000 dollars cheaper.

I'm not convinced on these very large rear tanks either. 26 in the back is a lot. Everything I heard about the French Yamaha 'factory' team in Dakar was problems with rear set up. Thats was a single rear fuel cell on a YZ

one of the things I REALLY like about the Rebel X kit is how useable it can be. Its very modular. It looks like it would be easy enough to run just the 18litre front tank, or maybe the nav tower with the std fuel tank for navigation training etc etc. The Mecca kit means the bike is either a rally bike OR a trail bike, not much adaptability. for the way I perceive the way I want to use my bike the Rebel X kit is much much more useful

 

 

 

The Meca Kit was only as a reference for the rear fuel tanks,
the rebel kit is (IMO) better looking and (more) durable(??)

 

allthough a balance in the front and rear weight is crucial, the YZ450f (injection) rear tank setup is (far) better, or appears to be better fitting compaired to the rebel rear tank..

But as I havent seen the rabel kit yet, I cannot judge them (yet)



  • iggs

Posted February 02, 2015 - 03:16 AM

#8

The Meca Kit was only as a reference for the rear fuel tanks,
the rebel kit is (IMO) better looking and (more) durable(??)
 
allthough a balance in the front and rear weight is crucial, the YZ450f (injection) rear tank setup is (far) better, or appears to be better fitting compaired to the rebel rear tank..
But as I havent seen the rabel kit yet, I cannot judge them (yet)

I agree that rear subframe tanks have a number of benifits including getting weight closer to the COG and also they should save on overall weight. The problem is they become more specialised and therefore much more expensive.

My understanding is the factory YZ run in the Dakar this year had a custom carbonfibre single fuel cell and Oliver Pain was quoted relatively early on that they were struggling to set up the rear shock. The 'factory' team had much more in the way of resources than I do and kits like the Rebel X seem to offer a great / cost effective solution.

What do you think of the bashplate fuel tanks that JVO produced for Yamaha and Gas Gas? Or the Behego plug and play tank? http://www.behego.com/?page_id=278

  • bobpara

Posted February 02, 2015 - 07:37 AM

#9

Dubai?.....I live in New England where it is relatively cool, and I think my bike runs hot

I honestly dont know how this bike survives in the heat

Many use a pair of electric Cooling fans on the radiator(s)

Also, Boysen (the reed guys) make an higher flow impeller for the water pump (see ebay)

 

0-40 or 0 -50 synthetic oil is a must



  • iggs

Posted February 02, 2015 - 06:55 PM

#10

Dubai?.....I live in New England where it is relatively cool, and I think my bike runs hot
I honestly dont know how this bike survives in the heat
Many use a pair of electric Cooling fans on the radiator(s)
Also, Boysen (the reed guys) make an higher flow impeller for the water pump (see ebay)

0-40 or 0 -50 synthetic oil is a must

My Gas Gas has a WR engine and over the summer I put nearly 200hrs on it. If the trucks outside temp gauge showed less that 30 deg C (ie 29!!) on the way to the yard before sunrise it was considered a cool start to the day. 30 or more and it was going to be a warm one

The bike boiled lots of times but the engine never missed a beat.

All the hire bikes are the same model and they live a hard life year round and their reliability has been pretty spectacular

With Gas Gas moving away from the WR engine the yard had decided to move to a fleet of WR's because of the reliability in the local conditions

I've no plans to fit fans etc. Better to ride in a way that keeps the airflow up naturally. My riding is much much better than it used to be and while not being particularly quick I'm finding ok flow in the dunes nowadays which keeps the air through the radiators good

I'm going to fit a voyager to this bike. This will allow me to view the temp the bike runs at over a ride. My inner nerd will find this interesting

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • patrick2wd

Posted February 03, 2015 - 01:52 AM

#11

maybe option to have a higher pressure coolant/ radiator plug?

as far as whative heard on the wr's = same as yz's, they can stand the heat pretty good,

 

as far as I know, they dont need an oilrad to cool the oil/ engine



  • patrick2wd

Posted February 03, 2015 - 01:57 AM

#12

I agree that rear subframe tanks have a number of benifits including getting weight closer to the COG and also they should save on overall weight. The problem is they become more specialised and therefore much more expensive.

My understanding is the factory YZ run in the Dakar this year had a custom carbonfibre single fuel cell and Oliver Pain was quoted relatively early on that they were struggling to set up the rear shock. The 'factory' team had much more in the way of resources than I do and kits like the Rebel X seem to offer a great / cost effective solution.

What do you think of the bashplate fuel tanks that JVO produced for Yamaha and Gas Gas? Or the Behego plug and play tank? http://www.behego.com/?page_id=278

I know the co-owner of BEHEGO,

he knows his way around the bikes, this does has its advantages, but I'd strugle to fit a tank at that spot,

the "older" YZ's (in the Dakar) still have the separate rear tanks,

I'd be more interested in these..

I'm on a exhibition later this month in Holland, and ask about costs for the separate tanks, and make/ post some photo's, if the bikes there.. (rebel rally bike)


Edited by patrick2wd, February 03, 2015 - 01:58 AM.


  • iggs

Posted February 03, 2015 - 02:08 AM

#13

So just had a bike and rally kit update. Its looking like my bike will be broken out of Dubai airport on Thursday  :ride:  and apparently there are 2 large boxes which probably contain a Rebel X kit sitting at James's pad :thumbsup:

 

Friday morning cant come soon enough. It will be interesting to see how long Mike (in the workshop) manages to remain patient with my inept faffing around



  • iggs

Posted February 03, 2015 - 02:29 AM

#14

I know the co-owner of BEHEGO,

he knows his way around the bikes, this does has its advantages, but I'd strugle to fit a tank at that spot,

the "older" YZ's (in the Dakar) still have the separate rear tanks,

I'd be more interested in these..

I'm on a exhibition later this month in Holland, and ask about costs for the separate tanks, and make/ post some photo's, if the bikes there.. (rebel rally bike)

I really like the idea of the weight carried so central and low

 

Do you mean this Yamaha

 

YZF-JVO7.jpg



  • patrick2wd

Posted February 03, 2015 - 02:50 AM

#15

thats the 2013 (or earlier) YZ rally bike,

This has the "other" rear tanks,

 

Frans_Verhoeven_2014_YZ450F_Rally_Yamaha

This is Frans Verhoeven's bike, with, again,other rear tanks than on Pain's bike..

and these were made either in carbon or in aluminium..

 

The new 2015 YZ's have a fuel-cell, a sort-off one piece tank, to concentrate the fuel near the engine,

Frans his team mate, had problems with boiling fuel on his bike and had to withdraw from the Dakar this year due to that problem..


Edited by patrick2wd, February 03, 2015 - 02:51 AM.


  • patrick2wd

Posted February 03, 2015 - 02:53 AM

#16

as far as I know both the above bike are for sale... several in France... :banana:



  • iggs

Posted February 03, 2015 - 03:08 AM

#17

thats the 2013 (or earlier) YZ rally bike,

This has the "other" rear tanks,

 

Frans_Verhoeven_2014_YZ450F_Rally_Yamaha

This is Frans Verhoeven's bike, with, again,other rear tanks than on Pain's bike..

and these were made either in carbon or in aluminium..

 

The new 2015 YZ's have a fuel-cell, a sort-off one piece tank, to concentrate the fuel near the engine,

Frans his team mate, had problems with boiling fuel on his bike and had to withdraw from the Dakar this year due to that problem..

Nice bike but custom tanks cost a fortune :/

 

I find it staggering Yamaha spent so much money but did so little testing. Both KTM and Honda have well proven, race tested bikes/teams. How on earth does as big a player as Yamaha  go through such a big process as develop a factory bike yet not find out through testing that the fuel will get too hot under race conditions. Madness


Edited by iggs, February 03, 2015 - 03:09 AM.


  • iggs

Posted February 03, 2015 - 03:28 AM

#18

It seems what Rebel X have quite successfully done is put a variety of readily available parts into a kit.

 

By using redilly available parts they avoid the huge development costs. Putting them into a kit means the solve all a customers problems with a fit and forget solution.

 

I'm pretty sure the Rebel X kit uses Safari for both their tanks

 

http://www.safaritan...f-10-litre-rear

 

Other options "might" lead to better performance but to me the products rebel x have put together seem like they are proven to 'just work'. From my perspective as "not in contention for the front places" this is key consideration


as far as I know both the above bike are for sale... several in France... :banana:

How much for?



  • patrick2wd

Posted February 03, 2015 - 04:10 AM

#19

French YZ's from just under 13K in euro's (asking)

 

Biggest drawback is there's no starter button on the YZ..


Edited by patrick2wd, February 03, 2015 - 04:31 AM.


  • iggs

Posted February 03, 2015 - 04:29 AM

#20

Are these not the bikes that had 5 fuel cells as quoted in the factory team info for 2015 as the reason they moved to the single fuel cell this time around?






 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.