Starting a FI model...trouble...


18 replies to this topic
  • rojapar

Posted January 03, 2015 - 09:14 AM

#1

I finally get my 2014 450 but it's hard as hell to start.  I was reading that you are supposed to do two easy kicks, then a hard one from when its hits the compressions stroke. 

 

Anyway, does anyone have any technique that works well.  My starting was hit or miss and I have a sore foot today:(

 



  • Phil Hannah

Posted January 03, 2015 - 09:57 AM

#2

I finally get my 2014 450 but it's hard as hell to start.  I was reading that you are supposed to do two easy kicks, then a hard one from when its hits the compressions stroke. 
 
Anyway, does anyone have any technique that works well.  My starting was hit or miss and I have a sore foot today:(

No need for hard kick. Just give it smooth repetitive kicks. Usually starts 3rd kick. Did u maybe over oil air filter or not give time for the dispersant to evaporate?

  • rojapar

Posted January 03, 2015 - 10:02 AM

#3

No need for hard kick. Just give it smooth repetitive kicks. Usually starts 3rd kick. Did u maybe over oil air filter or not give time for the dispersant to evaporate?

i havent even looked at the air filter.  its new off the showroom floor.

 

so do you give all 3 kicks the same amount of force?  or are the first two just real slow and easy to charge the FI system?



  • rojapar

Posted January 03, 2015 - 10:04 AM

#4

No need for hard kick. Just give it smooth repetitive kicks. Usually starts 3rd kick. Did u maybe over oil air filter or not give time for the dispersant to evaporate?

i did notice that it never started on a hard kick or even acted like it wanted to whatsoever.  when i would get lucky and it would start it was maybe a 50% kick.



  • Gaz929

Posted January 03, 2015 - 11:54 AM

#5

I finally get my 2014 450 but it's hard as hell to start. I was reading that you are supposed to do two easy kicks, then a hard one from when its hits the compressions stroke.

Anyway, does anyone have any technique that works well. My starting was hit or miss and I have a sore foot today:(


Mine was like this when I first got her, but now she's got about 15hrs riding it seems to start 3rd kick.

  • PsychoSane

Posted January 03, 2015 - 12:04 PM

#6

Here's what I do with my 2011 yz450.

 

1)Pull out the starter knob to allow a high idle

2)Hold full throttle so the FI system will not attempt to deliver fuel through the injector

3)Kick the bike over 4 or 5 times with an easy to medium kick in order to charge the capacitors which power the FI system

4)Give a medium kick to start it,   kicking too hard defeats the automatic compression release.  Hands off throttle while kicking

 

If it ever gets hard to start I change the plug immediately,  no matter what it looks like.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=YG21TKfHTW8


Edited by PsychoSane, January 03, 2015 - 12:09 PM.


  • rojapar

Posted January 03, 2015 - 12:15 PM

#7

good video.  i wasnt aware the thing had a starter knob to pull out.  the dealer didnt go over anything with me and i took it strait to a friends house to ride without knowing anything.

 

wow, the video says you can go engine damage by kick starting it...hope i didnt jack anything up.



  • PsychoSane

Posted January 03, 2015 - 12:24 PM

#8

Found a pic of the automatic compression release mechanism.   

 

There is a fly weight on the camshaft gear which is held inward by a spring when the camshaft is at rest or when it's rotating below a certain rpm,   in this state the mechanism is releasing compression.

 

When the cam rotates faster than a certain rpm,  centrifugal force acting on the weight causes the weight to fly outward,  disabling the compression release.

 

In reality all it is doing is advancing and retarding the timing to hold the valves open and release compression.

 

If you kick too hard when you attempt to start the bike you will spin the cam too fast,  defeating the compression release,  making the bike hard to start.

 

30wtco1.jpg


Edited by PsychoSane, January 03, 2015 - 12:28 PM.


  • PsychoSane

Posted January 03, 2015 - 12:36 PM

#9

good video.  i wasnt aware the thing had a starter knob to pull out.  the dealer didnt go over anything with me and i took it strait to a friends house to ride without knowing anything.

 

wow, the video says you can go engine damage by kick starting it...hope i didnt jack anything up.

 

I doubt that you caused any damage!   /you should see the first day I owned my 450,  I kicked that thing 500 times as hard as I could without starting it once.   I kicked a hole in the sole of my work boot,  fouled the plug,  and couldn't even bump start the thing. 

 

Never got it to run until the next day when I replaced the plug,  and searched the internet for clues.


Edited by PsychoSane, January 03, 2015 - 12:36 PM.


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  • rojapar

Posted January 03, 2015 - 01:16 PM

#10

I doubt that you caused any damage!   /you should see the first day I owned my 450,  I kicked that thing 500 times as hard as I could without starting it once.   I kicked a hole in the sole of my work boot,  fouled the plug,  and couldn't even bump start the thing. 

 

Never got it to run until the next day when I replaced the plug,  and searched the internet for clues.

so on a four stroke, if you fouled the plug, does that mean it just got wet with gas, unlike a 2 stroke where it gets covered in oil?

 

if so, wouldnt it have dried out by the next day?



  • Monk

Posted January 03, 2015 - 01:33 PM

#11

You need a few kicks to charge the capacitor for running the fuel pump, after that it should be a 1 fire deal...

  • PsychoSane

Posted January 03, 2015 - 01:35 PM

#12

so on a four stroke, if you fouled the plug, does that mean it just got wet with gas, unlike a 2 stroke where it gets covered in oil?

 

if so, wouldnt it have dried out by the next day?

 

 It wasn't fouled with oil,  just carbon.   I pulled the plug on the same day,  cleaned it, dried it off,  and it still wouldn't fire.    Replaced the plug,  and it fired within a few kicks.



  • rojapar

Posted January 03, 2015 - 01:44 PM

#13

 It wasn't fouled with oil,  just carbon.   I pulled the plug on the same day,  cleaned it, dried it off,  and it still wouldn't fire.    Replaced the plug,  and it fired within a few kicks.

so the plug carbon fouled on a brand new bike from just kicking the engine over without it ever even starting?

 

if thats the case, im wondering if i fouled mine also.  i did manage to get it started and it ran good once running, but now im wondering if i should pull the plastic and take off to check on the plug.



  • PsychoSane

Posted January 03, 2015 - 02:27 PM

#14

My bike wasn't brand new when I bought it.    On the day I picked it up I watched the previous owner start the bike easily. 

 

In the excitement of the day I forgot to ask him how he did it,  and I didn't read the manual.

 

As soon as I got it home I just tried to start it the same way I'd started all of my carbed bikes.

 

Figured it's a big badazz 450,  so I'd have to kick it as hard as I could.    I may have unintentionally given it some throttle too.

 

It wouldn't start,  so I cleaned the plug.   It still didn't start.  I think I got one backfire out of what felt like 500 kicks.   I even tried to bump start it,  and it wouldn't even fart.

 

Took the plug out,  cleaned it, and let it sit on the bench overnight with no plug in the cylinder head so I'd be sure it's dried out.

 

Tried to start it the next morning, no luck at all.

 

I decided that since I had just seen the po easily start it,   I would start with a new plug.

 

Ended up putting the Iridium version of the factory plug,  which is an NGK CR8EIX.

 

The bike fired right up in about 3 kicks.   It's fired up ever since.



  • mikedabike

Posted January 04, 2015 - 06:57 AM

#15

I am not sure if mentioned but make sure it is in neutral. None of my Yamahas have ever liked starting in gear.



  • SAthump

Posted January 04, 2015 - 07:18 AM

#16

Almost always just 2 easy repetitive kicks

You only need the choke of the bike is cold on a cold day
Leave the throttle alone

  • yzUSMCf

Posted January 04, 2015 - 12:15 PM

#17

CHECK the idle screw . Mine was way low when I got it and made it hard to stsrt.

I usually do 2 smooth kicks to wake up the FI then to top dead center on compression and a good kick and she starts

It helps to have the exhaust plug out tho lol

  • gofaster450

Posted January 06, 2015 - 05:52 AM

#18

One other suggestion and this has nothing to do with starting the bike but you mentioned that the bike is new. If the bike is brand new, off the dealer floor I would seriously recommend removing the air cleaner, cleaning it and re-oiling it before the first ride. There is no telling how long your bike has sat since the filter was originally installed and I am not all that convinced that the factory does that effective of a job prepping the filter in the first place. Same applies to the engine oil which is open to the atmosphere (not a sealed system). Oil degrades and accumulates moisture once poured out of a sealed bottle.

 

Same goes for greasing the linkage and steering head bearings. When I brought my 2012 home from the dealer the first thing I did was clean the air cleaner, removed and re greased all the suspension/steering head bearing and re torqued all the bolts to the manual directed specs.

 

Regarding starting, when cold I kick my 12 yz450 through 2 times, find where it gets hard to move the kick start lever, continue just past this point, and then get a full kick in. Bike starts like a charm.



  • Zackdocks

Posted January 09, 2015 - 06:57 PM

#19

Yeah same here, 2 easy kicks to charge, find tdc by slowly winding kickstarter until I hit resistance, then a medium speed full kick. If it doesn't start within 2 kicks, I hold throttle wide open, 1 or 2 more kicks to clear, then repeat procedure. Always starts easily. I use the cold start knob when it's cold. If I kick it too hard it never wants to start.

Edited by Zackdocks, January 09, 2015 - 06:57 PM.






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