New bike came with synthetic, oil question



31 replies to this topic
  • Zackdocks

Posted December 16, 2014 - 09:07 AM

#1

Hey guys my new yz450f came with synthetic oil in it, I know you're supposed to use dino oil for break in to seat the rings. It's been ran for about 2 mins with the synthetic before I noticed and told the dealer to shut it off. I'm going to drain the synth and put dino oil in for break in, will the fact it ran with synthetic for a bit cause any issues with ring seating? Probably just being paranoid but I know how well that stuff clings to metal.

  • Zackdocks

Posted December 16, 2014 - 09:09 AM

#2

2nd question, I'm gonna pull all the bearings apart and regrease them with maxima waterproof grease. It says to remove all the old grease first, but I'm not going to pull the bearings obviously. Should I just clean them the best I can with brake clean and compressed air, or just throw the maxima in there without worrying about the factory grease? Newb questions but I'm not a noob, been riding for 7 yrs just never had a brand new bike before.

  • DEMI

Posted December 16, 2014 - 09:54 AM

#3

Just break it in with the synthetic, it isn't a 73 Bultaco with sloppy clearaces and iron bore, etc. The Dino oil break in is a bit dated. Many will claim this and that, do what you feel is best however.

  • SAthump

Posted December 16, 2014 - 10:03 AM

#4

Not all oils labeled Syn are equal or even synthetic.

Class 5 oil could potentially be a prob

Seriously doubt you're running one.

  • fulton246

Posted December 16, 2014 - 10:22 AM

#5

The synthetic oil that the dealer used won't ruin anything, especially if you only ran it for 2 min. Also, regarding the bearings, you don't need to remove the existing grease. Just make sure they are properly greased and add more if needed. 



  • LovingOffroadPain

Posted December 16, 2014 - 10:23 AM

#6

Hey guys my new yz450f came with synthetic oil in it, I know you're supposed to use dino oil for break in to seat the rings. It's been ran for about 2 mins with the synthetic before I noticed and told the dealer to shut it off. I'm going to drain the synth and put dino oil in for break in, will the fact it ran with synthetic for a bit cause any issues with ring seating? Probably just being paranoid but I know how well that stuff clings to metal.

 

Won't cause issues.  Good synthetic oils are better in every way, you'll be fine.  The biggest part of breaking in your motor is running a few heat cycles, and taking it easy for the first hour.  Change the oil.  Ride at 70% for an hour, drain the oil again.  Fill'r up, you're good to ride 100%.

 

2nd question, I'm gonna pull all the bearings apart and regrease them with maxima waterproof grease. It says to remove all the old grease first, but I'm not going to pull the bearings obviously. Should I just clean them the best I can with brake clean and compressed air, or just throw the maxima in there without worrying about the factory grease? Newb questions but I'm not a noob, been riding for 7 yrs just never had a brand new bike before.

 

Are you referring to linkage bearings?  Very good thing to grease bc they are usually poorly greased from the factory.  I would just remove the seals carefully not to damage them, pack it with grease and install the seals again.  Of course grease the linkage pins, which can be done without completely removing the bearings.. and the axles as you put it all back together. 

 

I'd put Lock-Tite on the nuts as you torque everything down, you'll never have to worry about it coming apart on the trail/track.



  • Zackdocks

Posted December 16, 2014 - 10:50 AM

#7

Yes I was talking about the linkage bearings as well as the steering tube and wheel bearings. Sounds good I will just add grease without worrying about the two mixing.

Regarding the break in, I was planning on using the motoman method. Warm it up fully, accel hard-ish and engine brake a few times to 30 mph, then to 50, etc, then change oil and filter and ride. My concern was the synthetic being too slippery to allow the rings to seat properly,read lots of info online about not using it for break in. An amsoil Rep told me not to worry about it so perhaps I will just use the the synthetic.

  • Zackdocks

Posted December 16, 2014 - 10:53 AM

#8

BTW the oil was motul 1 and yes I will be loctiting all the bolts before I ride it this wknd. The dealer didn't do a pdi on this bike, I kind of got a backdoor deal on a leftover bike,so I'll be going over everything.

  • kurtcrf450

Posted December 16, 2014 - 11:44 AM

#9

Clean the bearings and repack them. Don't use compressed air on them as you may lose some of the bearings or damage them by the air spinning them at high speeds without lube.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 16, 2014 - 01:18 PM

#10

There is NO TRUTH to the old, undying myth that synthetic oils should not be used for break in.  None whatsoever; it's BS of the worst kind, and the truth is that there never really was.  In fact, GM will void the warranty on your shiny new Silverado, Corvette, Z/28 or SS Camaro, and other cars they ship with Mobil 1 if you use anything other than a specified synthetic oil for break in. 



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  • Zackdocks

Posted December 17, 2014 - 07:59 AM

#11

Ok thanks Gray. Cleaned all the bearings with varsol and brakekleen and repacked with maxima waterproof grease last night, what a job. Only loctited bolts that weren't self locking. Gotta say, pretty damn nice working on something so spotless.

  • Gunner354

Posted December 17, 2014 - 06:38 PM

#12

There is NO TRUTH to the old, undying myth that synthetic oils should not be used for break in. None whatsoever; it's BS of the worst kind, and the truth is that there never really was. In fact, GM will void the warranty on your shiny new Silverado, Corvette, Z/28 or SS Camaro, and other cars they ship with Mobil 1 if you use anything other than a specified synthetic oil for break in.

I must disagree. Redline oil which is a group V, says right on the bottle "NOT" for breakin unless you load the motor to 80% . So technically you can use it if you are willing to ride the piss out of right from the start or on a dyno. Mobil 1 is a group IV and doesn't have this issue.

Edited by Gunner354, December 17, 2014 - 06:53 PM.


  • mdsharon

Posted December 17, 2014 - 08:10 PM

#13

I must disagree. Redline oil which is a group V, says right on the bottle "NOT" for breakin unless you load the motor to 80% . So technically you can use it if you are willing to ride the piss out of right from the start or on a dyno. Mobil 1 is a group IV and doesn't have this issue.

I'm with gray, I broke in my snowmobile with redline, and has 8k on the motor just sayin. For the dirt bike shell rotella seems to work great,and at the price change it more besides yamaha is bullet proof run it.. JMO.



  • Monk

Posted December 17, 2014 - 08:20 PM

#14

Yup, I dumped good ol Rotella in for its first oil change and she works awesome!

20141217_144229_zpssynasqi_edit_14188623

  • grayracer513

Posted December 18, 2014 - 07:40 AM

#15

I must disagree. Redline oil which is a group V, says right on the bottle "NOT" for breakin unless you load the motor to 80% . So technically you can use it if you are willing to ride the piss out of right from the start or on a dyno. Mobil 1 is a group IV and doesn't have this issue.

 

Group V oils don't have that issue, either.  It is, just as I said, a myth. 

 

Consider: The adage states, essentially, that synthetic oils can't be used for break in because they lube too well and they won't let the rings seat.  The only logical conclusion one can draw from such a statement is that effective break in depends on the partial or complete failure of lubrication.  This, at a time when mating parts have not yet worn in to each other, and it is most critical to have effective lubrication.  There are so many things wrong with that that the more you actually think about it, the sillier it sounds.

 

For one thing, actual hydrodynamic lubrication, by definition, requires the total separation of any two parts that move against one another by an oil film.  If the two parts touch at all, that means one or both have forced their way through the oil film, and lubrication has failed.  There is NO metal on metal contact with proper lubrication.

 

For another, considering that compression rings always seem to be at the center of this controversy, oil has extremely little or nothing to do with compression rings since they never see any of it.  If there were as much as 0.002 ml of oil present in the combustion chamber during each power stroke, a single cylinder engine averaging 6000 RPM would burn 300cc of oil an hour.  Compression rings are lubricated by gasoline, not oil, and by the molybdenum compounds their wear faces contain.

 

So, the truth is that when someone says, "Don't use synthetics for break in", what they mean is, "Use shitty oil for break in so it will fail to lube your engine adequately and accelerate early wear".  That sound like a good idea?   By that logic, maybe you should just break it in without oil.  You'd get faster results.



  • flapwick

Posted December 18, 2014 - 08:08 AM

#16

That was fun!



  • stevethe

Posted December 18, 2014 - 08:23 AM

#17

Broke my Yamaha in with Mobil1 fully synthetic. It doesn't use any oil and seems quite happy. 



  • Gunner354

Posted December 18, 2014 - 02:43 PM

#18

Group V oils don't have that issue, either. It is, just as I said, a myth.

Consider: The adage states, essentially, that synthetic oils can't be used for break in because they lube too well and they won't let the rings seat. The only logical conclusion one can draw from such a statement is that effective break in depends on the partial or complete failure of lubrication. This, at a time when mating parts have not yet worn in to each other, and it is most critical to have effective lubrication. There are so many things wrong with that that the more you actually think about it, the sillier it sounds.

For one thing, actual hydrodynamic lubrication, by definition, requires the total separation of any two parts that move against one another by an oil film. If the two parts touch at all, that means one or both have forced their way through the oil film, and lubrication has failed. There is NO metal on metal contact with proper lubrication.

For another, considering that compression rings always seem to be at the center of this controversy, oil has extremely little or nothing to do with compression rings since they never see any of it. If there were as much as 0.002 ml of oil present in the combustion chamber during each power stroke, a single cylinder engine averaging 6000 RPM would burn 300cc of oil an hour. Compression rings are lubricated by gasoline, not oil, and by the molybdenum compounds their wear faces contain.

So, the truth is that when someone says, "Don't use synthetics for break in", what they mean is, "Use shitty oil for break in so it will fail to lube your engine adequately and accelerate early wear". That sound like a good idea? By that logic, maybe you should just break it in without oil. You'd get faster results.

It appears you are far wiser and have a degree in oil chemistry. I have a lot of faith in an oil company that is well known in the racing world than someone who has zero experience with they're oil but likes to be an expert. It still amazes me why you always try to belittle me and you get away with it. You are not the King of know it all. I still remember when I was talking great things about Rekluse and you kept saying they had no value. But as soon as you jumped on the band wagon you were the only expert and happened to be a veteran. I have been running them from day one or 2004 but I knew nothing.

Edited by Gunner354, December 18, 2014 - 03:03 PM.


  • Monk

Posted December 18, 2014 - 02:47 PM

#19

It appears you are far wiser and have an degree in oil chemistry. I have a lot of faith in an oil company that is well known in the racing world than someone who has zero experience with they're oil but likes to be an expert.


But advertising play a huge part, just become something looks good doesn't mean it is....

  • Gunner354

Posted December 18, 2014 - 02:57 PM

#20

But advertising play a huge part, just become something looks good doesn't mean it is....

I urge you to educate yourself and you will agree. Maybe use it for ten years plus in these high raving motors and do tear downs. Pretty sure you will agree.





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