2012+ WR450F Stronger starter motor?



64 replies to this topic
  • cwr12

Posted January 01, 2015 - 04:12 PM

#21

I agree, all model years the starter motor is marginal at best

I wonder if you went to the trouble to remove it and bring it to a starter motor specialist?

We have one here in the Boston area (Chelmsford, MA)

Every major city probably has one, just have to fish around a bit

Hey Bob, I grew up in Raynham. If you ever come to Utah to ride, I'll show you the goods.



  • RMK800

Posted January 01, 2015 - 10:51 PM

#22

Hey Bob, I grew up in Raynham. If you ever come to Utah to ride, I'll show you the goods.


Just curious, where are the goods?

  • roiala

Posted January 24, 2015 - 10:26 PM

#23

A LIFe battery will spin it faster. Stock battery is 12.8Volts, LiFe is about 14.4. CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) only is the 'volume' of electricity available. Like a 2 gallon or five gallon tank of fuel. A larger tank will not make the bike faster.

 

The bike needs to have it (idle mix) set for ambient temps. The enricher adjusted to provide enough (and the right amount) for cold starts. A cold start when it is 60 degrees is a lot different than a cold start at 0 degrees. Two settings, two 'circuits' in the FI.

 

I have to disagree. CCA is the thing that matters how battery turns starter motor. Ah is the volume of battery and CCA is how much "juice" it gives out. Higher Voltage+CCA together help to make LiFepo battery great.

I ride through winter and LiFepo battery is not good when it really gets cold, like sub zero fahrenheit (-20 celsius). Above 30F it works great. A friend of mine has WR and Lifepo battery is all that is needed to get it start great cold or hot during summertime.

 

I have KTM 500 exc  (but thinking of WR and that is why reading this) and all I have done to it is a bit higher idle and YTZ7S Yasa battery -> 0F is no problem on races that reguire cold start from parkferme on second day of race.

 

But the bottom line is that CCA is the thing to look when trying to get battery that will start WR best.

 

(I am not English speaking person so I hope this was understandanle enough)


Edited by roiala, January 24, 2015 - 10:29 PM.


  • William1

Posted January 25, 2015 - 04:15 AM

#24

A LiFe battery chemistry is a poor performer in zub zero temps. You may of noticed that once you try to start the bike in extreme cold, the battery seems weak but after a few seconds, it appears to get stronger. This is because the the load is causing the battery chemistry to heat up which in turn enables it to be more productive'. This is the one main weak spot of these batteries, they can be difficult if they get cold. Some turn on a headlight for a minute to 'get the battery going' for a minute before they try to start.

CCA is the total amount of cold crank amps available. In layman's terms, how long the battery can output full voltage. More CCA, the battery can turn the starter motor a longer time, giving you a better shot at getting the engine running. A battery with a small CCA and a battery with large CCA will, on initial starting attempt, operate the same. The smaller one will go dead sooner.



  • letitsnow

Posted January 25, 2015 - 06:21 AM

#25

We ride in the cold here.  Typically, the last guy to pull into the parking lot is the guy that uses his truck to pull start the Yamaha's.  Not sure why, but they just aren't good cold starters.



  • roiala

Posted January 25, 2015 - 06:55 AM

#26

A LiFe battery chemistry is a poor performer in zub zero temps. You may of noticed that once you try to start the bike in extreme cold, the battery seems weak but after a few seconds, it appears to get stronger. This is because the the load is causing the battery chemistry to heat up which in turn enables it to be more productive'. This is the one main weak spot of these batteries, they can be difficult if they get cold. Some turn on a headlight for a minute to 'get the battery going' for a minute before they try to start.

CCA is the total amount of cold crank amps available. In layman's terms, how long the battery can output full voltage. More CCA, the battery can turn the starter motor a longer time, giving you a better shot at getting the engine running. A battery with a small CCA and a battery with large CCA will, on initial starting attempt, operate the same. The smaller one will go dead sooner.

 

Still disagree:

 

Cold cranking amperes (CCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery). It is a more demanding test than those at higher temperatures. This is the most widely used cranking measurement for comparison purposes.

 

So it is not how long, it is how much amps it will give you in situation given above. And as we know power (in electric motor) is calculated P=U*I. There U is voltage and I is current. So, if battery keeps it's voltage well under stress as LiFepo4 does and gives out huge amount of current motor will spin faster.

 

And yes, LiFepo4 batteries act just like said by William1, had one "selfmade" 12 cell one in my previous bike and did just that. It still was way better than any battery I have ever had in any wehicle though. That little thing started diesel truck like nothing when tried that for experince.


Edited by roiala, January 25, 2015 - 07:00 AM.


  • Chaconne

Posted January 25, 2015 - 06:46 PM

#27

I'm of the belief that I have the only newer WR450F that starts hot or cold (25 degrees the other morning) with the e-start, it doesn't die, doesn't backfire, starts in gear if I want, doesn't overheat,....there has to be more trouble free WR's out there?
Note: GYTR ECU & throttle screw, snorkel removed, Dr D slip-on, CO% set to 3.7% using an EGA , (I use 2-3 of Yamahas published maps depending on where I'm riding without problems).

Same here with my 2014 WR. Even before ECU & etc mods, started just fine in gear or not with variety of temps here in New England.



  • bobpara

Posted January 26, 2015 - 07:29 AM

#28

I agree with woods-rider's earlier statement

More so than any bike I have owned, the ambient temperature seems to have alot to do with starting and to a lesser extent, how the bike runs

That 'point' seems to be around 40 deg F 

I have noticed the precisely same situation

Seems like you can jet for one or the other, but not both



  • Kenaroo

Posted January 26, 2015 - 04:21 PM

#29

Thought....  and a little research...   I'm looking to get a WR450R  12' plus..   been reading about the slow start.

 

thinking using a supercapacitor could be added to the charging system would solve this.. 

 

 

here is a guy experimenting using them on cars..



  • Chaconne

Posted January 26, 2015 - 04:32 PM

#30

Thought....  and a little research...   I'm looking to get a WR450R  12' plus..   been reading about the slow start.

 

thinking using a supercapacitor could be added to the charging system would solve this.. 

 

 

here is a guy experimenting using them on cars..

Make sure the bike you buy actually has a problem. I have had no problems with my 2014 others have had other experiences though.



Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • AtomicGeo

Posted January 26, 2015 - 07:39 PM

#31

Thought....  and a little research...   I'm looking to get a WR450R  12' plus..   been reading about the slow start.

 

thinking using a supercapacitor could be added to the charging system would solve this.. 

 

 

here is a guy experimenting using them on cars..

 

 

 

What's a "WR450R" ?  :confused:

 

 

:busted:


Edited by AtomicGeo, January 26, 2015 - 07:39 PM.


  • comp123

Posted January 26, 2015 - 07:46 PM

#32

Same here with my 2014 WR. Even before ECU & etc mods, started just fine in gear or not with variety of temps here in New England.

What I find interesting is my 2012 WR450 always starts, hot or cold usualy first push. I recently overheated my bike and it developed the hard starting symptoms so many of you describe. Fortunately, after much testing it was simply an idle adjustment from 1600 to 2100. Don't know how my idle lowered itself. I also remapped but don't think it was part of my "http://www.thumperta...er-overheating/.  Rode my bike twice since the idle adjustment and once again it  starts 1st push almost everytime. So a 500rpm idle difference changed my easy starting WR into a nitemare to start. What else on the bike controls idle settings upon starting?



  • Chaconne

Posted January 27, 2015 - 04:46 AM

#33

What I find interesting is my 2012 WR450 always starts, hot or cold usualy first push. I recently overheated my bike and it developed the hard starting symptoms so many of you describe. Fortunately, after much testing it was simply an idle adjustment from 1600 to 2100. Don't know how my idle lowered itself. I also remapped but don't think it was part of my "http://www.thumperta...er-overheating/.  Rode my bike twice since the idle adjustment and once again it  starts 1st push almost everytime. So a 500rpm idle difference changed my easy starting WR into a nitemare to start. What else on the bike controls idle settings upon starting?

Not sure. I guess I would go back to what Krannie said earlier in the thread about TPS & sensors perhaps.



  • Kenaroo

Posted January 27, 2015 - 05:15 AM

#34

What's a "WR450R" ?  :confused:

 

 

.Jerk.. :p


  • comp123

Posted January 27, 2015 - 05:52 AM

#35

Thought....  and a little research...   I'm looking to get a WR450R  12' plus..   been reading about the slow start.

 

thinking using a supercapacitor could be added to the charging system would solve this.. 

 

 

here is a guy experimenting using them on cars..

After you purchase your 450R, I have an extra Flux Capacitor from my DeLorean I can lend you.



  • Kenaroo

Posted January 27, 2015 - 07:20 AM

#36

After you purchase your 450R, I have an extra Flux Capacitor from my DeLorean I can lend you.

You guys are Brutal.... I'm going back to the Beta section....LOL...



  • AtomicGeo

Posted January 27, 2015 - 06:25 PM

#37

 

What's a "WR450R" ?  :confused:

 

 

.Jerk.. :p

 

 

 

Hope you get a 450F.  I sold my XRR...it was a wise move.


Edited by AtomicGeo, January 27, 2015 - 06:25 PM.


  • drdanbozeman

Posted May 26, 2015 - 05:58 PM

#38

I went for the EarthX Lithium battery and have used it for about a month now. I ordered online from http://earthxmotorsports.com;when I picked up the package I was pretty sure they forgot to include the battery - really light! I do not like EarthX's terminal location which is mid-mount. I have a BajaDesigns dual sport kit on the bike so I have 3 connections going to each terminal and the mid-mount was a bit of a PITA to hook up. I will say that is was a worthwhile purchase/changeover, since the bike does start easier = more cranking amps. I'll give the EarthX a  :thumbsup:



  • mch

Posted May 26, 2015 - 06:26 PM

#39

I went for the EarthX Lithium battery and have used it for about a month now. I ordered online from http://earthxmotorsports.com;when I picked up the package I was pretty sure they forgot to include the battery - really light! I do not like EarthX's terminal location which is mid-mount. I have a BajaDesigns dual sport kit on the bike so I have 3 connections going to each terminal and the mid-mount was a bit of a PITA to hook up. I will say that is was a worthwhile purchase/changeover, since the bike does start easier = more cranking amps. I'll give the EarthX a  :thumbsup:

 

Did you use the terminal adapter kit?  Here's pics from mine along with the terminal adapter kit: http://www.thumperta...in-2012-wr450f/



  • drdanbozeman

Posted May 27, 2015 - 06:53 AM

#40

Did you use the terminal adapter kit?  Here's pics from mine along with the terminal adapter kit: http://www.thumperta...in-2012-wr450f/

I did not use the terminal adapters as I did not know they were required or available. I sent a suggestion to EarthX that they make it more clear on their site that:

1. The kit makes it much easier to attach the wiring to a WR450 application

2. The kit obviates the need to increase the stock wiring battery hole size due to the larger screw on their battery






 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.