2012+ WR450F Stronger starter motor?



64 replies to this topic
  • drdanbozeman

Posted December 06, 2014 - 11:10 AM

#1

Many WR riders on TT have had issues with starting the 2012+ WR using the e-start. I've gone through all of the suggested fixes including FI mapping, setting the carbon monoxide level higher, opening the throttle to that perfect little place, etc. My dealer suggested that Yamaha put a really weak starter motor in the bike to save weight. Well they certainly didn't save much weight with a 270+ pound bike! 

Question - does anyone know if there is a stronger-better starter motor from a different bike or manufacturer that will fit in the WR? 



  • woods-rider

Posted December 06, 2014 - 11:37 AM

#2

Interesting question. It might be easier to mod the WR starter with stronger magnets or something. If you try this, be sure to use a battery with more CCAs than the stock battery to spin it to its potential.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted December 06, 2014 - 12:27 PM

#3

With the correct battery (12ah mininum) and the correct FI settings,  there is no issue whatsoever.........unless you are trying to start in gear.



  • woods-rider

Posted December 06, 2014 - 12:50 PM

#4

With the correct battery (12ah mininum) and the correct FI settings, there is no issue whatsoever.........unless you are trying to start in gear.


False.

In my experience you can either tune it to cold start well in 40*F+ weather or 40*F- weather, but not both. Once the motor is warm, starting is not an issue regardless of the ambient temp.

A stronger batter helps, but it's not the end all cure.

  • William1

Posted December 06, 2014 - 01:08 PM

#5

A LIFe battery will spin it faster. Stock battery is 12.8Volts, LiFe is about 14.4. CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) only is the 'volume' of electricity available. Like a 2 gallon or five gallon tank of fuel. A larger tank will not make the bike faster.

 

The bike needs to have it (idle mix) set for ambient temps. The enricher adjusted to provide enough (and the right amount) for cold starts. A cold start when it is 60 degrees is a lot different than a cold start at 0 degrees. Two settings, two 'circuits' in the FI.



  • drdanbozeman

Posted December 06, 2014 - 02:22 PM

#6

A LIFe battery will spin it faster. Stock battery is 12.8Volts, LiFe is about 14.4. CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) only is the 'volume' of electricity available. Like a 2 gallon or five gallon tank of fuel. A larger tank will not make the bike faster.

 

When I did a search for LiFe batteries I'm not finding any motorcycle applications. Do you have a supplier?



  • woods-rider

Posted December 06, 2014 - 02:59 PM

#7

When I did a search for LiFe batteries I'm not finding any motorcycle applications. Do you have a supplier?


Shorai, EarthX, Ballistic, etc.

I would look into EarthX, it has internal circuitry to prevent over charging and over discharging which can damage batteries.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted December 06, 2014 - 03:36 PM

#8

False.

In my experience you can either tune it to cold start well in 40*F+ weather or 40*F- weather, but not both. Once the motor is warm, starting is not an issue regardless of the ambient temp.

A stronger batter helps, but it's not the end all cure.

 

So turn your idle up, and use the fast idle setting when cold.



  • yamahadude93

Posted December 06, 2014 - 04:56 PM

#9

You're using the start button, right? I've tried starting it with out it on, and its nearly impossible cold. I pull the start button and it fires right up.

  • woods-rider

Posted December 06, 2014 - 06:51 PM

#10

So turn your idle up, and use the fast idle setting when cold.


I do that.

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  • Doomba

Posted December 06, 2014 - 09:08 PM

#11

If the bike doesn't like starting with the button, but fires right up with a quick kick.....get a better battery. I'd recommend the shorai. The ballistic batteries have a 50/50 shot of working after the first month. I have a completely untuned comp ecu and the battery cured 95% of my button starting. Shorai worth every penny. Trust!

  • woods-rider

Posted December 06, 2014 - 10:14 PM

#12

If the bike doesn't like starting with the button, but fires right up with a quick kick.....get a better battery. I'd recommend the shorai. The ballistic batteries have a 50/50 shot of working after the first month. I have a completely untuned comp ecu and the battery cured 95% of my button starting. Shorai worth every penny. Trust!


I have a shorai in it already. The starter spins plenty fast, but that's not the issue in sub-freezing conditions.

Bike also has FMF pipe, shorter throttle stop, snorkel removed, FMF map on the comp ecu, CO bumped up with the FI tool.

Edited by woods-rider, December 06, 2014 - 10:16 PM.


  • Wristrockit

Posted December 06, 2014 - 10:23 PM

#13

If the bike doesn't like starting with the button, but fires right up with a quick kick.....get a better battery. I'd recommend the shorai. The ballistic batteries have a 50/50 shot of working after the first month. I have a completely untuned comp ecu and the battery cured 95% of my button starting. Shorai worth every penny. Trust!

This is exactly how my '14 acts when it's cold.  I can spin that starter all darned day and nothing but give it ONE good kick and kaboom!!  After it is warmed up it's not an issue.  It was only down to about 36* F today so it's not like it was cold or anything.  I just put fresh gas in it on my second ride today, it still had the gas in it that was in it at the dealership where I bought it.  It got better the longer I rode it.



  • Nuklhed

Posted December 07, 2014 - 06:58 AM

#14

Kick it when it's cold, button when warmed up.  Easy, right?

 

I have the comp ECU and a moderately rich map programmed into it.  But like my road bike, I suspect that the cold air (~32 F) doesn't help the detonation in the cylinder when gasoline vapors need a certain temperature to ignite. 

 

I have tried the starter button when cold.  It's a, "bump once, bump once more, bump it a third time" starting sequence.  I'm not sure if it has to allow more fuel into the cylinder between button pushes as the fuel pump pressures up, or if there is something else going on. 

 

The snorkels are removed, too.

 

Warmed up, I find the only problem is when I stall it on compression from not enough clutch slippage.  Then, either the starter can't overcome the compression stroke and/or the starter has to be held down for 5-10 seconds it seems.  But, kick it--fires right up.



  • drdanbozeman

Posted December 07, 2014 - 07:07 AM

#15

My e-start issues are both hot and cold. I pull out the starter knob/idle adjusting screw to start when the motor is cold. Idle speed has been increased as well. When I have a hot stall, I often need to pull the starter knob again to get it going. 

 

My OP was about a stronger starting motor - so to keep it simple I'll go with a stronger battery, either Shorai or EarthX



  • bobpara

Posted December 08, 2014 - 01:37 PM

#16

I agree, all model years the starter motor is marginal at best

I wonder if you went to the trouble to remove it and bring it to a starter motor specialist?

We have one here in the Boston area (Chelmsford, MA)

Every major city probably has one, just have to fish around a bit



  • bobpara

Posted December 08, 2014 - 01:39 PM

#17

A more powerful motor would most likely draw more current

Old motor 20 so-so cranks and a dead battery

New motor 10 real good cranks and battery dead



  • 5270ADVRIDER

Posted December 11, 2014 - 07:16 PM

#18

I'm of the belief that I have the only newer WR450F that starts hot or cold (25 degrees the other morning) with the e-start, it doesn't die, doesn't backfire, starts in gear if I want, doesn't overheat,....there has to be more trouble free WR's out there?
Note: GYTR ECU & throttle screw, snorkel removed, Dr D slip-on, CO% set to 3.7% using an EGA , (I use 2-3 of Yamahas published maps depending on where I'm riding without problems).

  • Nuklhed

Posted December 12, 2014 - 06:36 PM

#19

5270 adventure rider, you may be right.  It could also be that I only have about 250 miles on mine, too.



  • cwr12

Posted January 01, 2015 - 04:10 PM

#20

I've had the same issuse (the bike is modded) so I went with the litium battery and it made a big difference but it still doesn't start like it should. Having a few YZ's before this WR they didn't like the cold either. I always pull the knob and kick it when it's cold. But what has help tremendously in the cold is running Yamalube 0-40 from the end of November to March. I'll switch back to a heavier oil in March.






 
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