Should I go full synthetic?



20 replies to this topic
  • flapwick

Posted November 23, 2014 - 08:47 PM

#1

I have a 2007 YZ450f that started making alot of noise recently.Turns out the crank bearing was starting to go and the small metal filings gouged the cylinder badly enough to need replacing,too.So,I am replacing the cylinder,crank assembly ,and all relevant seals and bearings as well(all OEM).I am a Vet Novice level 53 year old,who is not real hard on my bike,and I am very good about doing all the proper maintenance on it.My question is, will it be better for my bike to go full synthetic in the engine?Is there any downside to it other than cost? I have always used Yamalube four stroke all purpose performance 10w-40.I am the second owner of the bike,and have had it for almost 3 years.I know the previous owner,and he rode it very little,but his son is a good Intermediate level racer,and would race this bike when his Honda's were down.Maybe a dozen times in the bikes first 5 years.So,any thoughts? Thanks alot!!015.JPG



  • grayracer513

Posted November 24, 2014 - 07:06 AM

#2

The best oils I know of are full synthetic, but so are several that I would never use.  The question of whether it is or isn't full synthetic isn't what matters as much as how well it can protect the engine, and whether the gearbox will beat it into water in under two hours. 

 

Use a good reputable oil made for the purpose, and change it often.  No downside but the cost.



  • flapwick

Posted November 25, 2014 - 07:45 AM

#3

Thanks,Gray.I have some Maxima Extra4 on hand,and I will check into Yamalube making a full synthetic.If they do,I would be inclined to go with Yamalube.



  • Swappa

Posted November 25, 2014 - 11:07 AM

#4

Hmm, 2007 YZ450F with blown motor ... for the price of all those OEM parts, I'd consider selling the rolling chassis. You'll be into your 2007 for what you could pickup a barely used 2010-2012 which look mighty fine in yellow. Your tusk wheels would bolt into the new bike by switching the spacers.

 

FWIW, I like Yamalube.



  • TwoCrfs

Posted November 25, 2014 - 02:24 PM

#5

Run Synthetic and change oil and filter often.  But if its the stock motor 7 years is pretty good.


Edited by TwoCrfs, November 25, 2014 - 02:25 PM.


  • flapwick

Posted November 25, 2014 - 06:06 PM

#6

Thanks,guys.I'm paying 820.00 for brand new oem crank assembly,cylinder,all seals and bearings.Piston kit was 150 or so,I think.I don't know where I could get a good used bike for 1000 bucks.And I don't sell stuff on ebay,I just buy it!



  • grayracer513

Posted November 26, 2014 - 08:32 AM

#7

I will check into Yamalube making a full synthetic.If they do,I would be inclined to go with Yamalube.


I wouldn't.

  • Gunner354

Posted November 26, 2014 - 09:11 AM

#8

Almost 400 hrs on original crank with Redline 10-40. I don't believe there is a better oil. PERIOD!
Also original clutch with a Rekluse Pro
Changed the piston with over 300 hrs and top ring was 8K out of spec but second ring was still in spec

Edited by Gunner354, November 26, 2014 - 09:13 AM.


  • Mtrain730

Posted November 26, 2014 - 10:32 AM

#9

I wouldn't.

If I may ask grey and I have read several oil threads that you have commented on so I know your oil of preference what is your opinion on the belray thumper oil full synthetic.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 26, 2014 - 11:36 AM

#10

Don't really have one because I've never seen any real data on it. I did see test data on one the other BelRey oils that wasn't too bad one way or other.

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  • flapwick

Posted November 26, 2014 - 05:31 PM

#11

As usual I'm confused.



  • grayracer513

Posted November 26, 2014 - 10:18 PM

#12

As usual I'm confused.


How so?

  • luckyguy19

Posted November 27, 2014 - 08:54 AM

#13

http://wpc.1c96.edge...ived/index.html

 

This is about the only hard data I've been able to find on Motorcycle oils.  I run Mobile 1 Racing 4T because of this study.  Its available everywhere; Autozone, Oreily's, Pep Boys, Cycle Gear, and most Walmarts. 



  • flapwick

Posted November 27, 2014 - 10:15 AM

#14

Gray,just confused by lack of info(my fault) and lots of choices. Thanks,luckyguy19,for that post on the info.I wonder why Yamalube is not on the test? It appears that Amsoil MCF is the best and Mobil Racing 4T is second. Why do you go with the Mobil? Have a Happy  Thanksgiving everyone!!


Edited by flapwick, November 27, 2014 - 10:16 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted November 28, 2014 - 08:58 AM

#15

When I had 2 and three dirt bikes to maintain, and my son and i rode more often, I needed enough oil during a season to make Amsoil's preferred customer program worthwhile to me.  It cost $20/year at the time, and buying at the PC price, even with shipping, put the cost of the oil at about $7/qt., an excellent value for such a completely competent oil.  This is no longer true, as it's just me and one bike, so the $9-10/qt price of Mobil 1 and the easier availability make it a better choice.

 

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10w-40, (or "V-Twin" 20w-50 in hotter weather) and Amsoil MCF 10w-40 (or MCV 20w-50) are virtually coequal across all test categories, so IMO, one's the same as  the other.

 

As I have said on a number of occasions, almost all oils that can claim to be on the 6th or 7th out of ten tiers of quality can be used as engine oils for just about anything without any particular concerns over how well they will work.  The thing that kills engine oil in motorcycles that share engine oil with the gearbox is viscosity loss through additive destruction caused by fluid shear in the transmission.  There are oil additives that will survive gearbox service, but they cost more than those generally used for engine oils, and until about 15 years ago, almost no one ever used them in engine oils because it wasn't generally recognized as a problem.  That has changed, more so in the past 5 years, and more manufacturers are blending oils for the purpose that do use gear oil viscosity additives to prevent the breakdown.  The problem for the consumer is that without such testing, or sending in your used oil for testing by someplace like Blackstone Labs, there is no way for you to know this.  (see page 9 of the test).

 

This kind of failure can occur in fewer than 2 hours race time, way before any other kind of breakdown in the basic oil functions or excessive contamination happens.  What you end up with is a 30 wt, or even a 20 wt, where you thought you had a 40.

 

In an earlier published version of an earlier test, their were fewer than half as many oils capable of passing that set of tests than there are in that one, so I see that as progress.  Still hard for somebody to know for sure without such info. 

 

The big thing?  Oil is cheap when you only need a quart at a time, buy good stuff and change it often.  You'll be fine.



  • flapwick

Posted November 28, 2014 - 11:18 AM

#16

Thanks Gray!



  • crf917rider

Posted November 28, 2014 - 04:34 PM

#17

When I had 2 and three dirt bikes to maintain, and my son and i rode more often, I needed enough oil during a season to make Amsoil's preferred customer program worthwhile to me. It cost $20/year at the time, and buying at the PC price, even with shipping, put the cost of the oil at about $7/qt., an excellent value for such a completely competent oil. This is no longer true, as it's just me and one bike, so the $9-10/qt price of Mobil 1 and the easier availability make it a better choice.

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10w-40, (or "V-Twin" 20w-50 in hotter weather) and Amsoil MCF 10w-40 (or MCV 20w-50) are virtually coequal across all test categories, so IMO, one's the same as the other.

As I have said on a number of occasions, almost all oils that can claim to be on the 6th or 7th out of ten tiers of quality can be used as engine oils for just about anything without any particular concerns over how well they will work. The thing that kills engine oil in motorcycles that share engine oil with the gearbox is viscosity loss through additive destruction caused by fluid shear in the transmission. There are oil additives that will survive gearbox service, but they cost more than those generally used for engine oils, and until about 15 years ago, almost no one ever used them in engine oils because it wasn't generally recognized as a problem. That has changed, more so in the past 5 years, and more manufacturers are blending oils for the purpose that do use gear oil viscosity additives to prevent the breakdown. The problem for the consumer is that without such testing, or sending in your used oil for testing by someplace like Blackstone Labs, there is no way for you to know this. (see page 9 of the test).

This kind of failure can occur in fewer than 2 hours race time, way before any other kind of breakdown in the basic oil functions or excessive contamination happens. What you end up with is a 30 wt, or even a 20 wt, where you thought you had a 40.

In an earlier published version of an earlier test, their were fewer than half as many oils capable of passing that set of tests than there are in that one, so I see that as progress. Still hard for somebody to know for sure without such info.

The big thing? Oil is cheap when you only need a quart at a time, buy good stuff and change it often. You'll be fine.

Curios on ur thought of why hinson would tell me not to run full synthetic with there clutch

  • srfdwg2

Posted November 28, 2014 - 07:18 PM

#18

I have parts you need unless you already have them..shoot me a p.m.



  • grayracer513

Posted November 28, 2014 - 07:28 PM

#19

Curios on ur thought of why hinson would tell me not to run full synthetic with there clutch

 

These days, I have no idea why anyone would believe that when you have synthetic oil labeled JASO MA/MA2 (specifically qualified for wet clutches).  I never had a problem with the Hinson I had, or the Amsoil I ran in it. :excuseme:



  • luckyguy19

Posted November 28, 2014 - 08:57 PM

#20

Gray,just confused by lack of info(my fault) and lots of choices. Thanks,luckyguy19,for that post on the info.I wonder why Yamalube is not on the test? It appears that Amsoil MCF is the best and Mobil Racing 4T is second. Why do you go with the Mobil? Have a Happy  Thanksgiving everyone!!

The biggest reason I use the Mobile 1 is availability.  I run a parts department and I can get Mobile 1 wholesale for about $9 a quart.  Amsoil is hard to come by around where I live. 







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