G-Damm it Yamaha, I expect to see the YZ450FX by spring, OK?



91 replies to this topic
  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 08:51 AM

#41

You must not ride hills or weigh more than #170 then!

 

My 350 is too slow...

 

I ride hills (mountains, to be exact) and I'm well above #170 and my 250 pulls me up anything no problem. *shrug*

 

The ONLY place my 250 would be 'too slow' would be a fast fire road or open desert. No way no how is it ever 'too slow' in single track.

 

On a similar note, did anyone catch the GNCC round where Kailub Russel (current champ on KTM 350) rode a 150 XC and was leading all the 450s until he had to pit with a stick in his rear brake or something? The only place the 450s were faster were the wide open grass sections, and it still wasn't enough. So yeah rider/skill > bike/displacement every time.



  • cracker please

Posted November 06, 2014 - 09:10 AM

#42

The 150 would probably need rebuilt more often though.  Some people would consider that a disadvantage.  Might not matter to some.  Different folks have different priorities.



  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 09:56 AM

#43

The 150 would probably need rebuilt more often though.  Some people would consider that a disadvantage.  Might not matter to some.  Different folks have different priorities.

 

It might. That wouldn't be an issue for a pro rider like Russel, his team would take care of that. Besides, this was a one-off deal. He already had the championship sewn up, and this bike gets auctioned off after the race.

 

But that's not the point here. The point is, in woods riding/racing, big displacement is not necessarily an advantage or necessary to be fast/competitive, and Russel proved that in spades.

 

Or Ricky Russel winning the Desert 100 last year on a YZ250F his team intentionally geared short to keep his top speeds down. A *desert* race... on a 250F... against open class bikes, he beat them all by like 12 minutes.

 

So yeah, tell me again how 250s can't hang.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 06, 2014 - 10:12 AM

#44

I ride hills (mountains, to be exact) and I'm well above #170 and my 250 pulls me up anything no problem. *shrug*

 

The ONLY place my 250 would be 'too slow' would be a fast fire road or open desert. No way no how is it ever 'too slow' in single track.

 

On a similar note, did anyone catch the GNCC round where Kailub Russel (current champ on KTM 350) rode a 150 XC and was leading all the 450s until he had to pit with a stick in his rear brake or something? The only place the 450s were faster were the wide open grass sections, and it still wasn't enough. So yeah rider/skill > bike/displacement every time.

 

Yeah, Russell is an animal

 

Can't use a 250 where I ride.

You have to down shift too much, and slow down, to make the hills. They don't pull high gears.  

If you scream them / race pace, then yes, they are fine, but I don't ride that way on loose uphills.

Me and my 450X are over 510lbs, and it works better on steep loose stuff than my 250X did, by a large margin. The 250 had full R motor work.

 

I loved my KX450 and CRF450R  the best for offroad, but my knees are too far gone for more than a few kickstarts a day.



  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 10:55 AM

#45

Yeah, Russell is an animal

 

Can't use a 250 where I ride.

You have to down shift too much, and slow down, to make the hills. They don't pull high gears.  

If you scream them / race pace, then yes, they are fine, but I don't ride that way on loose uphills.

Me and my 450X are over 510lbs, and it works better on steep loose stuff than my 250X did, by a large margin. The 250 had full R motor work.

 

I loved my KX450 and CRF450R  the best for offroad, but my knees are too far gone for more than a few kickstarts a day.

 

I just chalk it up to SoCal terrain is a lot different than PNW terrain, and what works there doesn't necessarily work here, and vice versa. There simply is no limiting factor around on where you can go that is not rider/skill related. I've posted some of Jake Metteer's vids, he's a seriously fast &%$#@!ing dude, rides THE gnarliest terrain around here, and his two bikes are a Husky WR125 smoker and a Yamaha WR250F. I think a lot of you SoCal guys on your 450s would be in for a very rude awakening if you tried to hang on some of these trails.

 

Here's one of his latest. Midlife talked about snowy switchbacks, try these out for size:

 



  • stevethe

Posted November 06, 2014 - 01:47 PM

#46

We recently proved a 250 is a no go out in the rough and tumble of some sss where hills are the trails in this area of So. Cal.

  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 02:23 PM

#47

We recently proved a 250 is a no go out in the rough and tumble of some sss where hills are the trails in this area of So. Cal.

 

Or you proved someone can't ride. But do tell, what were the conditions on this ride that a 250 just could not do? I seriously want to know, because there is NOTHING in the PNW that would be bike-limited in any way. Rider skill limited, absolutely. But the bike would never be the reason someone couldn't make it.

 

And sorry to burst your bubble, but if you honestly think SoCal is the gnarliest technical terrain around, you really need to get out more.



  • wadzi90

Posted November 06, 2014 - 02:27 PM

#48

Or you proved someone can't ride. But do tell, what were the conditions on this ride that a 250 just could not do? I seriously want to know, because there is NOTHING in the PNW that would be bike-limited in any way. Rider skill limited, absolutely. But the bike would never be the reason someone couldn't make it.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but if you honestly think SoCal is the gnarliest technical terrain around, you really need to get out more.

Have you ridden so cal?

  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 02:32 PM

#49

Have you ridden so cal?

 

Can't say that I have. I see you're from Oregon, what have you ridden up in WA or OR?

 

Or let me turn it around, all those saying SoCal is so gnarly, have you ridden in the PNW?



  • wadzi90

Posted November 06, 2014 - 02:41 PM

#50

I grew up and learned how to ride in Oregon then moved to so cal,then back to Oregon about 2 years ago. I just don't see how you could make that assumption being that you've never ridden there. IMO the pnw and so cal are equal in narley terrain. Its funny everyone thinks so cal is all flat desert when in fact it has super narley mountains to ride and believe or not forest riding very comparable to pnw just more dry, a lot more dry. As for Washington I've ridden there once when I was 13,forgot the actual name but it was a bit outside Seattle. So cal has narlier hills by far but the pnw has narlier single track. That being said I believe there could be a couple hills down in so cal that the average/good rider would have trouble on a 250f.

Edited by wadzi90, November 06, 2014 - 02:43 PM.


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  • stevethe

Posted November 06, 2014 - 02:45 PM

#51

Hey GP1K no reason to turn it around. Like I have said before we have ex riders that moved your way to come all the way back to ride here. Their story is there is nothing like what we have here your way. We have plenty of pine trees with somewhat challenging stuff all fine for your 250's.

 

I've been at this for longer than I want to admit. I won't post publicly who was riding the 250. I will also say he is a very good rider and if you even had a chance to get down here you would rather quickly see whats up. This area is very very difficult to even get to then the fun starts.

 

Oh and I forgot after as many years as I have been doing this it's a little difficult to burst my bubble.


Edited by stevethe, November 06, 2014 - 02:48 PM.


  • wadzi90

Posted November 06, 2014 - 02:48 PM

#52

Hey GP1K no reason to turn it around. Like I have said before we have ex riders that moved your way to come all the way back to ride here. Their story is there is nothing like what we have here your way. We have plenty of pine trees with somewhat challenging stuff all fine for your 250's.

I've been at this for longer than I want to admit. I won't post publicly who was riding the 250. I will also say he is a very good rider and if you even had a chance to get down here you would rather quickly see whats up. This area is very very difficult to even get to then the fun starts.

I agree, and IMO so cal has better riding. I miss it terribly. Would I miss riding the pnw, sure but not so much.

  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 02:50 PM

#53

I grew up and learned how to ride in Oregon then moved to so cal,then back to Oregon about 2 years ago. I just don't see how you could make that assumption being that you've never ridden there. IMO the pnw and so cal are equal in narley terrain. Its funny everyone thinks so cal is all flat desert when in fact it has super narley mountains to ride and believe or not forest riding very comparable to pnw just more dry, a lot more dry. As for Washington I've ridden there once when I was 13,forgot the actual name but it was a bit outside Seattle. So cal has narlier hills by far but the pnw has narlier single track. That being said I believe there could be a couple hills down in so cal that the average/good rider would have trouble on a 250f.

 

Well I certainly do agree that I'm not really in a position to say for sure, having not ridden there. But I would say the exact same thing for all those saying SoCal is so much gnarlier that have never ridden here, ether.

 

I may not have ridden SoCal, but I have been there and watched some vids from TT members there, and I most definitely do no think it's all flat desert by any means.

 

But I think I you may have it hit on it... the hills. I think the nature of hills there vs here sounds like what you're talking about, and that does make some sense. All the hills here have trees all over them, you can't just go straight up, you have to wind back & forth etc. That's why we dont have 'horsepower robbing' hills, but SoCal does. I guess I just don't see that as 'technical' or 'gnarly' so much. YMMV



  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 03:06 PM

#54

Hey GP1K no reason to turn it around. Like I have said before we have ex riders that moved your way to come all the way back to ride here. Their story is there is nothing like what we have here your way. We have plenty of pine trees with somewhat challenging stuff all fine for your 250's.

 

I've been at this for longer than I want to admit. I won't post publicly who was riding the 250. I will also say he is a very good rider and if you even had a chance to get down here you would rather quickly see whats up. This area is very very difficult to even get to then the fun starts.

 

Oh and I forgot after as many years as I have been doing this it's a little difficult to burst my bubble.

 

Look I'm not trying to start a pissing match here, that is not my intent at all. But like I said, there is just nothing here that the bike would really be the factor, it's rider. I think I posted in another thread the only terrain I can think of where that would be an issue would be stuff like deep sand and lots of it, high speed desert, or very long steep aim your bike and pin it style hill climbs. We have none of that here. So when I hear '250s can't make it no matter who is riding' I'm very, very skeptical.

 

One my buddies once asked Shane Watts what he thought was the gnarliest terrain in the US. He did not mention SoCal. But he did mention WA, Teanaway area, IIRC. So I'll ask you this, do you think Shane Watts, Graham Jarvis or Jonny Walker would not be able to hang with you guys on 250s? I find that pretty much impossible to believe, but that's what I'm hearing, that horsepower matters more than skill.


Edited by GP1K, November 06, 2014 - 03:07 PM.


  • wadzi90

Posted November 06, 2014 - 03:15 PM

#55

Well I certainly do agree that I'm not really in a position to say for sure, having not ridden there. But I would say the exact same thing for all those saying SoCal is so much gnarlier that have never ridden here, ether.

I may not have ridden SoCal, but I have been there and watched some vids from TT members there, and I most definitely do no think it's all flat desert by any means.

But I think I you may have it hit on it... the hills. I think the nature of hills there vs here sounds like what you're talking about, and that does make some sense. All the hills here have trees all over them, you can't just go straight up, you have to wind back & forth etc. That's why we dont have 'horsepower robbing' hills, but SoCal does. I guess I just don't see that as 'technical' or 'gnarly' so much. YMMV

yeah a lot of hills are steep and straight, but there is a lot of tight, twisty, gradually steeper, switch back, rocky as f#@$ mountain goat trails n so cal too. Those trails are black diamond and double black diamond trails, very narley and very technical, so much sometimes it's not even fun. But I do agree the northwest has much more gnarley first second, and sometimes third gear riding than so cal does. But that's really all the pnw has unless you go east. I'm just sayin so cal is more optional

  • GP1K

Posted November 06, 2014 - 03:21 PM

#56

yeah a lot of hills are steep and straight, but there is a lot of tight, twisty, gradually steeper, switch back, rocky as f#@$ mountain goat trails n so cal too. Those trails are black diamond and double black diamond trails, very narley and very technical, so much sometimes it's not even fun. But I do agree the northwest has much more gnarley first second, and sometimes third gear riding than so cal does. But that's really all the pnw has unless you go east. I'm just sayin so cal is more optional

 

Sometimes I do wish there was more variety here. Eastern WA is kinda deep for day rides as I'm in the Seattle area. Or I should say, far enough east for it to be more open and (kinda) SoCal-ish. We ride the east side of the Cascades a lot, but it's still in the mountains, just east side vs west side.

 

I come from sport bikes and road racing background, and sometimes I just like to go FAST. And I don't mean faster than the next guy on a tight 2nd gear single track, I mean just smashing on my bike hauling ass fast. And there's not much around here to do that, like you have in SoCal. Which is why I went from a 250 to a 450 and right back to a 250 again.

 

Vive le difference?



  • stevethe

Posted November 06, 2014 - 03:28 PM

#57

Not to name drop in this secretive area of technical riding however we did once come upon a very good rider on a 250.
We were doing some technical off camber hilly stuff and had a couple of riders stuck behind us. There were two other riders in the area. I flagged them with the hand and a yell hey this way and guess what they came over to see what the fun was all about.

The first rider watched very carefully and then went for it and cleaned it. The second rider took four tries. When asked who the first rider was he said Danny La Porte. The second not so septacular rider was Donny Emler. They shortly split when we got going to the big hills. But La Porte can ride. Both on 250's.

  • wadzi90

Posted November 06, 2014 - 03:35 PM

#58

Sometimes I do wish there was more variety here. Eastern WA is kinda deep for day rides as I'm in the Seattle area. Or I should say, far enough east for it to be more open and (kinda) SoCal-ish. We ride the east side of the Cascades a lot, but it's still in the mountains, just east side vs west side.

I come from sport bikes and road racing background, and sometimes I just like to go FAST. And I don't mean faster than the next guy on a tight 2nd gear single track, I mean just smashing on my bike hauling ass fast. And there's not much around here to do that, like you have in SoCal. Which is why I went from a 250 to a 450 and right back to a 250 again.

Vive le difference?

I agree but I love the riding Here and want to experience Washington as well. I know what you mean, hauling ads on your dirt bike just makes you feel free. I will say China hat outside of bend, OR is a badass place to ride. Its just my favorite style of riding. I like technical stuff but not all day, it just isn't as fun to me as fast flowey trails with small jumps, tight turns, and whoops. Its all about what you like to ride IMO. I'm glad I'm getting the pnw style riding though, just makes me a better rider.

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted November 06, 2014 - 03:43 PM

#59

Or you proved someone can't ride. But do tell, what were the conditions on this ride that a 250 just could not do? I seriously want to know, because there is NOTHING in the PNW that would be bike-limited in any way. Rider skill limited, absolutely. But the bike would never be the reason someone couldn't make it.

 

And sorry to burst your bubble, but if you honestly think SoCal is the gnarliest technical terrain around, you really need to get out more.

 

Go to YouTube

 

Search 'Jawbone Canyon' 

 

 

No, this is not typical, but if you cut that hill in half, it is more than typical.

Silt on top of granite. 

No heavy rider can do it on a 250 unless he has mad skills. I can't buy skills. I buy bikes.

Track bikes are spewing water at the top, with glowing headers and half gone tires.

 

 

Search " Redona Ridge"

 

 

This is one of the guys I ride with ("with" is kind of an exageration...I start with him, then catch up....).

Ralphy rides one of everything, and this CR250R is getting hammered to death, and will need a new clutch and new piston by the end of the ride.

The rear tire will be a carcass of rubber, unuseable at the end of the day.

 

 

No this is not typical of all SoCal trails, but if you dumb it down about 15% that is SoCal, all the way, every day, all day.

 

 

SoCal is where ALL the factories test their bikes and riders.


Edited by Kah Ran Nee, November 06, 2014 - 03:45 PM.


  • wadzi90

Posted November 06, 2014 - 03:48 PM

#60

Go to YouTube

Search 'Jawbone Canyon'



No, this is not typical, but if you cut that hill in half, it is more than typical.
Silt on top of granite.
No heavy rider can do it on a 250 unless he has mad skills. I can't buy skills. I buy bikes.
Track bikes are spewing water at the top, with glowing headers and half gone tires.


Search " Redona Ridge"



This is one of the guys I ride with ("with" is kind of an exageration...I start with him, then catch up....).
Ralphy rides one of everything, and this CR250R is getting hammered to death, and will need a new clutch and new piston by the end of the ride.
The rear tire will be a carcass of rubber, unuseable at the end of the day.


No this is not typical of all SoCal trails, but if you dumb it down about 15% that is SoCal, all the way, every day, all day.


SoCal is where ALL the factories test their bikes and riders.

Sick videos, this shows how versatile so cal riding is




 
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