Questions about auto clutches


16 replies to this topic
  • revelc

Posted October 19, 2014 - 05:48 PM

#1

I plan on riding my bike in Supermoto trim to work and on single track with knobbies.

I am serious about wanting to compete in enduro/hare scramble type events. I feel as a new rider this mod would free me up to focus more on picking lines and not killing myself.

Does it help with arm pump?
(I felt like it did when I rode a YZ450 with one but I am not sure I imagined it)

I had a few issues with it stalling the YZ450 I rode under WOT. What gives?


Is it a bad idea to use one on a street ridden bike?

Does it slip when you try to wheelie?

What type did you choose and why?

How quickly do they wear compared to stock clutches?

Do they still fade?

What are drawbacks from using one?
I'm concerned about no engine braking. I use it a lot on downhill sections with loose rocks instead of feverishly pumping the rear brake.


I also don't know how it will affect me as a rider. Will it make me lazier and complacent?



An no, I'm not dropping 15 pounds off my bike to be able to compete in REAL events.


2014 WRR-Totalled
2012 WR450F-Stolen
2013 WR450F-Third bikes the charm.

Edited by revelc, October 19, 2014 - 06:00 PM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 19, 2014 - 07:18 PM

#2

Billions and billons of posts on the Rekluse EXP clutch

It is the most popular Auto-clutch system

Do a search.

 

I would not put an Autoclutch on a bike that you are not completely familiar with, as it make is much harder to learn the bikes attributes

Auto clutches make certain kinds of riding easier, and others harder.

 

If you are thinking of putting on an autoclutch because the  clutch is 'too hard to pull' then you are a perfect candidate ( a puss-ee).

 

If you want more traction all the time, less arm pump, and the near virtual impossibility of stalling, then you are also a candidate ( a real rider).

 

If you want to ride extremely technical single track like waterfalls, cross ruts, and vertical hills, then the Autoclutch is NOT for you, as it might not react fast enough, and does slip in high gears. 

 

Having said all that, they are extremely popular, and  there is no reason not to try the new Rekluse EXP 3.0 in your bike.



  • revelc

Posted October 19, 2014 - 11:56 PM

#3

Billions and billons of posts on the Rekluse EXP clutch
It is the most popular Auto-clutch system
Do a search.

I would not put an Autoclutch on a bike that you are not completely familiar with, as it make is much harder to learn the bikes attributes
Auto clutches make certain kinds of riding easier, and others harder.

If you are thinking of putting on an autoclutch because the clutch is 'too hard to pull' then you are a perfect candidate ( a puss-ee).

If you want more traction all the time, less arm pump, and the near virtual impossibility of stalling, then you are also a candidate ( a real rider).

If you want to ride extremely technical single track like waterfalls, cross ruts, and vertical hills, then the Autoclutch is NOT for you, as it might not react fast enough, and does slip in high gears.

Having said all that, they are extremely popular, and there is no reason not to try the new Rekluse EXP 3.0 in your bike.

I did a search but didn't find much about Rekluses being used on road.

I'm considering the EXP 3.0 but wasn't sure if I should save for the EXP 3.0 Core because the EXP 3.0 requires the removal of clutch plates from the stock stack. I didn't know if it would fade easier. Nor did I find anything about longevity.

I'm also concerned about tunability as I stalled the YZ when giving WOT on hills. I'd hate to have a bike stall and coast into a log instead of lofting the front tire over it.

You say it slips in high gears? Is this from fade? It will be ridden on the highway. Would I be a danger to myself and others on the road?

2014 WRR-Totalled
2012 WR450F-Stolen
2013 WR450F-Third bikes the charm.

Edited by revelc, October 19, 2014 - 11:59 PM.


  • revyrider

Posted October 20, 2014 - 05:30 AM

#4

Get one. Set it up properly. Wonder why you didn't do it sooner!



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 20, 2014 - 06:23 AM

#5

Many people will chime in

 

The CORE comes with it's own plates and basket

From your riding description, you will never really have troubles with reliability.

 

The issue for me was really slow technical riding....hard to predict the exact throttle control for immediate wheel lifts sometimes.

 

For most people is is a big advantage.



  • grayracer513

Posted October 20, 2014 - 10:27 AM

#6

The only reason it would slip in high gears is if the engine RPM is too low. 

 

To the OP's stated purpose, however, I do recommend you not use the EXP 3.0 in an SM bike because as you pointed out, it reduces the clutch stack by 20% or more to install it.  On pavement, with the higher than stock gearing often used, it would likely be a shortcut to clutch failure.

 

As to wheelies and such, again, the only time they slip or disengage is when the revs drop below the set up engagement RPM.  If the engine is tuning that slow, the clutch will at least partially release, but as soon as the engine speed rises, it hooks up again.  There is also the fact that you can always use the lever to fan up the engine manually.  Lever override is always available.

 

Stalling issues with the Rekluse normally fall into one of two categories: 

 

The engagement RATE (controlled by varying the internal weights in the unit) is too abrupt.  This causes stalling under conditions such as being a gear to high turning uphill, or second gear take-offs, etc. Loosen the rate up a little and it gets fixed.

 

The other situation is where the rider has made the pilot circuit so rich as to cause idle-down stalling on sudden throttle chops at lower RPM under a load.  Rich idle makes the engine fall back to idle so rapidly that it may dip lower than idle and stall.  Since the clutch will automatically let go of the engine, it just quits.  Leaning the idle to normal lets the engine settle back a little slower, and avoids the problem.

 

I'm a fan of the clutch for tight technical stuff and for preventing brake stalling, but unless brake stalling is a big problem for you, I don't see much advantage to an auto clutch on an SM.



  • stevethe

Posted October 20, 2014 - 11:16 AM

#7

Slipper clutches in supermoto bikes work compleatly different. They allow massive compression braking and only a little slip so as to not chatter. They work under compression braking only. I don't think you would ever notice it working in the dirt.

So on the street for supermoto you wouldn't want a auto clutch.

  • grayracer513

Posted October 20, 2014 - 03:35 PM

#8

True. "Slipper" clutches are correctly called "back torque limiting" clutches.  They undergo a partial release when the rear wheel tries to drive the engine.  Some of the simpler designs split the clutch boss into one half driven directly as normal, while the balance of the boss id riven by the fixed section through a one-way, or overrunning clutch, such as a sprag.  The original notion was to reduce the tendency for the rear to break loose on sudden throttle closings in lower gears.  Pretty sure Hinson makes one.



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  • bobpara

Posted October 21, 2014 - 10:21 AM

#9

Its like giving your bike a double dose of Prozac

Yeah, it makes things easier but the thing will just lack zip and excitement



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 21, 2014 - 02:08 PM

#10

Its like giving your bike a double dose of Prozac

Yeah, it makes things easier but the thing will just lack zip and excitement

 

I'd say more like a 1/2 dose, but yup, it 'neuters' the power delivery for the sake of perfect  traction and no stalling.

 

It has it's place, and they are very reliable.



  • revelc

Posted October 21, 2014 - 02:58 PM

#11

I'd say more like a 1/2 dose, but yup, it 'neuters' the power delivery for the sake of perfect traction and no stalling.

It has it's place, and they are very reliable.

I sold my PS4 and a few other items to get some parts for the new bike. I want to spend it wisely.

I have a little track I'm setting up at the house. It has a few obstacles over 3' and all this talk about hesitation and unpredictable response has me a little worried.


While its not flashy or cool I think I'm going to put some Racetech springs and gold valves ( if they are necessary?) on the bike before I consider the Rekluse.


Edited for potato

2014 WRR-Totalled
2012 WR450F-Stolen
2013 WR450F-Third bikes the charm.

Edited by revelc, October 21, 2014 - 06:47 PM.


  • grayracer513

Posted October 22, 2014 - 09:25 AM

#12

Its like giving your bike a double dose of Prozac

Yeah, it makes things easier but the thing will just lack zip and excitement

 

I'd say more like a 1/2 dose, but yup, it 'neuters' the power delivery for the sake of perfect  traction and no stalling.

 

It might be because mine's in a YZ450F, or it might be because it's a Z-Start Pro and not an EXP 3, but I find this to be entirely false, based on my own experience.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 22, 2014 - 12:44 PM

#13

Yeah, I had an EXP 2.0 on a KX450F, and a CRF450X, and a 3.0 CORE on a CRF450R, and on all of them the power delivery was softened enough to make really quick rear wheel turning decisions much more difficult 

 

Now most people don't ride that way, so it's not an issue for them. But I use a tiny bit of wheel spin in almost every corner.



  • grayracer513

Posted October 22, 2014 - 02:10 PM

#14

Well, I don't know what to tell you about that. I haven't experienced the slightest "softening" of power delivery, regardless of speed.  Off hand, I'd suspect a setup issue.



  • GP1K

Posted October 22, 2014 - 02:15 PM

#15

I sold my PS4 and a few other items to get some parts for the new bike. I want to spend it wisely.

I have a little track I'm setting up at the house. It has a few obstacles over 3' and all this talk about hesitation and unpredictable response has me a little worried.


While its not flashy or cool I think I'm going to put some Racetech springs and gold valves ( if they are necessary?) on the bike before I consider the Rekluse.


Edited for potato

2014 WRR-Totalled
2012 WR450F-Stolen
2013 WR450F-Third bikes the charm.

 

Money well spent... getting the bike sprung/valved for your weight and riding style is definitely better bang for your buck than a Rekluse for sure.



  • grayracer513

Posted October 23, 2014 - 11:31 AM

#16

I agree with that.  Suspension tuning should be first on almost everyone's list.  OTOH, it won't do much to prevent stalling.



  • Navaho6

Posted October 24, 2014 - 04:08 AM

#17

Yeah, I had an EXP 2.0 on a KX450F, and a CRF450X, and a 3.0 CORE on a CRF450R, and on all of them the power delivery was softened enough to make really quick rear wheel turning decisions much more difficult 

 

Now most people don't ride that way, so it's not an issue for them. But I use a tiny bit of wheel spin in almost every corner.

 

Same experience.  From my observations in our riding group, C-level riders love them.  They praise them because it makes technical riding easier for them. B-riders have mixed opinions.  Most A-riders in our group don't see a need for them but their are a few that use them soley for the anti-stall benefit and still operate their bikes with the clutch lever.

 

I tried one because I was having problems with arm pump.  It worked well for that but I found the same issues as Kah Ran Nee, and I talked to Rekluse several times and made the adjustments they suggested, inlcuding new friction plates, different springs, etc.  I used it for 6 months and watched my speed nose dive.  The guys that I use to leave far behind were keeping up with me.  As soon as I ditched the a-clutch, my speed improved.

 

If you have a lot of problems with stalling or arm pump, I would recommend one.  Otherwise, save your money and try to improve your technique with the manual clutch.  I eventually sold the bike that was giving me arm pump and got a new one that had an easier clutch pull and installed bar end weights to reduce the vibes.


Edited by Navaho6, October 24, 2014 - 04:10 AM.





 
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