2012 leaving WR450... Going back to a YZ



121 replies to this topic
  • torkd14

Posted October 13, 2014 - 06:39 AM

#1

After a season of racing the WR and enjoying it for the most part, I don't think I want to ride it another season. I need something a little more aggressive and agile now that I'm moving into the intermediate A class.

The weight, lack of top end power, and starting problems are the main reasons.

The WR is an awesome bike but I think needs a couple more years of engineering before it can be used as a true competition bike without throwing a bunch of money at it.

I still don't understand how KTM makes such a great off-road race 450 but Yamaha is still so far behind. Kinda makes me cranky because for some reason I'm 100% Yamaha loyal....

  • MyersAvionics

Posted October 13, 2014 - 07:33 AM

#2

After a season of racing the WR and enjoying it for the most part, I don't think I want to ride it another season. I need something a little more aggressive and agile now that I'm moving into the intermediate A class.

The weight, lack of top end power, and starting problems are the main reasons.

The WR is an awesome bike but I think needs a couple more years of engineering before it can be used as a true competition bike without throwing a bunch of money at it.

I still don't understand how KTM makes such a great off-road race 450 but Yamaha is still so far behind. Kinda makes me cranky because for some reason I'm 100% Yamaha loyal....

I'd mostly agree on this, minus the starting problems. I've thought about getting a 300, but then out on the trail when i need the torque of tractor, the WR delivers and puts me back on the fence. But then, i'm not sure what type of off road racing you encounter in you area. If it's GNCC-like, i would agree since their trails are extremely fast and flowing without much of any technical riding. 

 

Whereas the trails where i race are mostly quite tight and unless you're out in a harvested field, you won't get out of 2nd/3rd gear. 

 

Good luck in the A class :)


Edited by MyersAvionics, October 13, 2014 - 07:34 AM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 13, 2014 - 12:35 PM

#3

After a season of racing the WR and enjoying it for the most part, I don't think I want to ride it another season. I need something a little more aggressive and agile now that I'm moving into the intermediate A class.

The weight, lack of top end power, and starting problems are the main reasons.

The WR is an awesome bike but I think needs a couple more years of engineering before it can be used as a true competition bike without throwing a bunch of money at it.

I still don't understand how KTM makes such a great off-road race 450 but Yamaha is still so far behind. Kinda makes me cranky because for some reason I'm 100% Yamaha loyal....

 

Once you own one, you may not think that they do....unless you ride mellow and are under 200lbs



  • GP1K

Posted October 13, 2014 - 02:14 PM

#4

Once you own one, you may not think that they do....unless you ride mellow and are under 200lbs

 

I think Charlie Mullins might disagree. I think he's under 200 lbs, but sure as shit does not ride mellow.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 13, 2014 - 02:23 PM

#5

I think Charlie Mullins might disagree. I think he's under 200 lbs, but sure as shit does not ride mellow.

 

Who cares what a professional sponsered rider rides?  Especially one that has no FIM rules to follow about modifying the frame....

 

Read the Ken Roczen interview about what he thought about the FACTORY KTM's now that he has left them....



  • Navaho6

Posted October 13, 2014 - 04:50 PM

#6

I had a '13 WR.  I don't race but I do ride like it a lot of the time.  I had the WR set up pretty good and had trimmed about 12 lbs off the bike.  Then one day I swapped bikes with a friend who had a woods-prepped '09 YZ450.  The next day, I put my WR up for sale and soon after bought the YZ.  It's set up exactly like the WR with coolant bottle, kickstand, 18" wheel, barkbusters, skid plate, o-ring chain, radiator guards, steel sprocket and still weighs 20 lbs less than the WR.  The difference is huge when the going gets rough.  I guess i could have spent a lot more time trimming weight off the WR and ended up with a decent bike but in the end there would still have been a significant weight difference.   The YZ was a no-brainer.   



  • KennyMc

Posted October 13, 2014 - 05:47 PM

#7

I had a '13 WR.  I don't race but I do ride like it a lot of the time.  I had the WR set up pretty good and had trimmed about 12 lbs off the bike.  Then one day I swapped bikes with a friend who had a woods-prepped '09 YZ450.  The next day, I put my WR up for sale and soon after bought the YZ.  It's set up exactly like the WR with coolant bottle, kickstand, 18" wheel, barkbusters, skid plate, o-ring chain, radiator guards, steel sprocket and still weighs 20 lbs less than the WR.  The difference is huge when the going gets rough.  I guess i could have spent a lot more time trimming weight off the WR and ended up with a decent bike but in the end there would still have been a significant weight difference.   The YZ was a no-brainer.   

For me and my own riding, main thing is the e-start no matter what color bike I ride.  I prioritize that at the top and work my way down.  I now own a '14 350 EXC (mountain, single track bike) and an '07 WR450 (open desert bike).  Both being plated so my dual sport cravings can be dealt with in either situation :ride:



  • revelc

Posted October 13, 2014 - 06:03 PM

#8

I rode an 07 YZ450 with a Rekluse when a friend was trying to get me to get a 450 over a 250 and it was blazing fast on our local 20 mile loop.

I would have left everyone a lot further behind if it had bark busters and it wasn't borrowed. It never overheated once either ( hauling ass helps).

I rode the same trails on the WR and it was solid and I feel coming down big hills that it is easier to control. Not as fast...but it felt more comfortable and sure footed.

If I was strictly racing I'd go YZ. But I'm still a new rider and I plan on dual sporting my WR.

That transmission is robust enough to handle hill climbs, tear ass down fire roads, 4th gear wheelies, and clip down the interstate all with stock gearing.

I miss it..

By the way, mine was stolen. I would gladly take yours off your hands if you're getting rid of stuff OP ;)


2014 WRR-R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F-Stolen

Edited by revelc, October 13, 2014 - 06:25 PM.


  • KennyMc

Posted October 13, 2014 - 06:51 PM

#9

I rode an 07 YZ450 with a Rekluse when a friend was trying to get me to get a 450 over a 250 and it was blazing fast on our local 20 mile loop.

I would have left everyone a lot further behind if it had bark busters and it wasn't borrowed. It never overheated once either ( hauling ass helps).

I rode the same trails on the WR and it was solid and I feel coming down big hills that it is easier to control. Not as fast...but it felt more comfortable and sure footed.

If I was strictly racing I'd go YZ. But I'm still a new rider and I plan on dual sporting my WR.

That transmission is robust enough to handle hill climbs, tear ass down fire roads, 4th gear wheelies, and clip down the interstate all with stock gearing.

I miss it..

By the way, mine was stolen. I would gladly take yours off your hands if you're getting rid of stuff OP ;)


2014 WRR-R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F-Stolen

I had it for sale 3 weeks ago. Was gonna get the big brother to the 350 but decided to keep the WR. With the YZ SSS forks and cams, it's setup great for the desert.

  • revelc

Posted October 13, 2014 - 06:58 PM

#10

I had it for sale 3 weeks ago. Was gonna get the big brother to the 350 but decided to keep the WR. With the YZ SSS forks and cams, it's setup great for the desert.


I wouldn't be able to choose between the 350 and 500 EXC how did you not get both?

2014 WRR-R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F-Stolen

Edited by revelc, October 13, 2014 - 06:59 PM.


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  • KennyMc

Posted October 13, 2014 - 07:12 PM

#11

I wouldn't be able to choose between the 350 and 500 EXC how did you not get both?

2014 WRR-R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F-Stolen

Well, I just bought the 350 in July, so there was $10K.  To get the 500 in Sept, and another $10K for a dirt bike when I already have the WR pretty much set-up for how I like to ride...kind of made it simple.  I was all set to take the road trip up to Fresno where I had bought the 350.  Just decided not to at the last minute.  Now we are re-doing our patio in the back yard.....bye-bye $10K :eek:



  • revelc

Posted October 13, 2014 - 07:25 PM

#12

Well, I just bought the 350 in July, so there was $10K. To get the 500 in Sept, and another $10K for a dirt bike when I already have the WR pretty much set-up for how I like to ride...kind of made it simple. I was all set to take the road trip up to Fresno where I had bought the 350. Just decided not to at the last minute. Now we are re-doing our patio in the back yard.....bye-bye $10K :eek:


Glad you decided to keep the WR. I hope the patio stays under budget!


2014 WRR-R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F-Stolen

  • GP1K

Posted October 13, 2014 - 07:26 PM

#13

Who cares what a professional sponsered rider rides?  Especially one that has no FIM rules to follow about modifying the frame....

 

Read the Ken Roczen interview about what he thought about the FACTORY KTM's now that he has left them....

 

You mean the one he just won a championship on his rookie year, with his teammate taking 2nd? That bike? Yeah it must suck pretty hard, going 1-2 and all.

 

Or speaking of FIM, what about Antonio Cairolo, who's dominated in Europe? No frame modifying there, right?

 

Not to mention non-pros at GNCC/WORCS etc... a sea of orange... cuz the bikes suck? Yeah right.



  • KennyMc

Posted October 13, 2014 - 07:40 PM

#14

You mean the one he just won a championship on his rookie year, with his teammate taking 2nd? That bike? Yeah it must suck pretty hard, going 1-2 and all.

 

Or speaking of FIM, what about Antonio Cairolo, who's dominated in Europe? No frame modifying there, right?

 

Not to mention non-pros at GNCC/WORCS etc... a sea of orange... cuz the bikes suck? Yeah right.

Ya, KR will even say he likes his bikes a lot different than most when it comes to suspension and bike setup.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 14, 2014 - 07:32 AM

#15

After you strip off all the WR crap off a WR, here are the big weight differences between a 2009 YZ450F versus 2013 WR450F via parts catalog

 

- air box assembly.  YZ doesn't have a door
- rotor and stator versus CDI unit, though most people end up adding a flywheel weight to the YZ
- wiring harness: 2 pounds ?
- fuel pump and level sender

- lean angle sensor
- crankcase vent hose system.
- WR radiators are larger and have more coolant, though 2009 YZ has braces on them
- foot pegs: 1 pound  YZ has small Ti, WR has
- fenders (maybe)
- coil assembly. YZ uses coil on plug, new FI setup uses a stand alone coil.
- voltage regulator
- condensor
- lighter YZ plastic ?

- O Ring chain

- aluminum rear sprocket

- YZ fork lowers are longer, weigh a bit more

 

Everything else is the same.

 

The list is a bit different for a 2010+ FI YZ450F, but the same principles apply.

 

I think the WR has better geometry for woods than the YZs, especially with 22mm triple clamps and running decreased rear sag.  The WR uses the YZ250F chassis, one of the best turning bikes around.

 

I've been riding with a couple FI WR450Fs, both somewhat modded.  My bike is night and day different from them.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, October 14, 2014 - 07:37 AM.


  • GP1K

Posted October 14, 2014 - 07:53 AM

#16

After you strip off all the WR crap off a WR, here are the big weight differences between a 2009 YZ450F versus 2013 WR450F via parts catalog

 

- air box assembly.  YZ doesn't have a door
- rotor and stator versus CDI unit, though most people end up adding a flywheel weight to the YZ
- wiring harness: 2 pounds ?
- fuel pump and level sender

- lean angle sensor
- crankcase vent hose system.
- WR radiators are larger and have more coolant, though 2009 YZ has braces on them
- foot pegs: 1 pound  YZ has small Ti, WR has
- fenders (maybe)
- coil assembly. YZ uses coil on plug, new FI setup uses a stand alone coil.
- voltage regulator
- condensor
- lighter YZ plastic ?

- O Ring chain

- aluminum rear sprocket

- YZ fork lowers are longer, weigh a bit more

 

Everything else is the same.

 

The list is a bit different for a 2010+ FI YZ450F, but the same principles apply.

 

I think the WR has better geometry for woods than the YZs, especially with 22mm triple clamps and running decreased rear sag.  The WR uses the YZ250F chassis, one of the best turning bikes around.

 

I've been riding with a couple FI WR450Fs, both somewhat modded.  My bike is night and day different from them.

 

And yet no pros race the WR in GNCC/WORCS etc, they race YZFs. Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because it's a better platform for racing? And you forgot one major difference: the motor. The YZF motor is totally different than the WR has more power, and with the backwards mounting, better mass centralization, which equals better handling all around.

 

Your opinion about geometry is just that, an opinion with no facts to back them up. How would you know what the best steering geometry for racing on YZF is? Have you done it? Raced a YZF and WR and compared geometry and tried different setups to see what works best? No, of course not, it's just another one of your hare-brained 'theories' based on internet research and not actual factual seat time and experience.

 

The facts stand: YZFs get raced offroad professionally, and successfully, WRs do not.



  • KennyMc

Posted October 14, 2014 - 10:25 AM

#17

I put 22mm clamps on my WR and hated them. Moved the forks up/down and played with sag a bit. Bike was way too squirley for me in the desert. Going down steep, rock infested single track I felt like a squid.

Just didn't suit me and my riding style. I won't do what others do and say they aren't a good choice. I can only state they weren't for me. That's where the this bike vs that bike discussions go awry. What suits one may not suit another. JMO.

  • GP1K

Posted October 14, 2014 - 11:03 AM

#18

I put 22mm clamps on my WR and hated them. Moved the forks up/down and played with sag a bit. Bike was way too squirley for me in the desert. Going down steep, rock infested single track I felt like a squid.

Just didn't suit me and my riding style. I won't do what others do and say they aren't a good choice. I can only state they weren't for me. That's where the this bike vs that bike discussions go awry. What suits one may not suit another. JMO.

 

Exactly. Take one of my buddies, for example. He had an 03 WR450 he bought in 05 or so, and has ridden the piss out of it ever since. This summer he found a nice clean barely used 2012 in the San Jose area, and we road-tripped down to pick it up. He couldn't be happier. He's a big strong guy, and so he doesn't have a problem with the weight. So it's a big win for him. It may weigh the same on paper, but anyone that's ridden both knows the new model feels 30 lbs lighter when riding. The suspension is leaps and bounds better than before, and the FI is just icing on the cake. It's a way improved WR, no two ways about it. So for him, it's a great bike. For me, it wasn't so much. Different strokes for different folks and all that.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 14, 2014 - 11:29 AM

#19

I put 22mm clamps on my WR and hated them. Moved the forks up/down and played with sag a bit. Bike was way too squirley for me in the desert. Going down steep, rock infested single track I felt like a squid.

 

On your 07 ?  'nuff said.  2012+s are different beasts.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 14, 2014 - 11:38 AM

#20

You mean the one he just won a championship on his rookie year, with his teammate taking 2nd? That bike? Yeah it must suck pretty hard, going 1-2 and all.

 

Or speaking of FIM, what about Antonio Cairolo, who's dominated in Europe? No frame modifying there, right?

 

Not to mention non-pros at GNCC/WORCS etc... a sea of orange... cuz the bikes suck? Yeah right.

 

gdamit I never said the bikes suck

Quit putting words in my mouth

My opinion is valid as is yours

Quit trying to stir up trouble






 
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