THE KYB SSS Fork Offroad Revalve

[C-P]

TXC310 mid looks stiff compared to the others in this thread.

 

📎TX310-Stack.jpg

 

📎TX310-Curve.jpg

It felt stiff, too.  But pretty easy to modify!  6 17mm shims of 2 diff thicknesses gives plenty of options to move up down or out of the stack.  Hmmm....

Edited October 9, 2014 by C-P

[C-P]

Sorry, no baseline function on the MV sheet !   You'll have to compare manually.

 

📎CP-MV1-Stack.jpg

 

📎CP-MV1-Curve.jpg

 

📎CP-MV2-Stack.jpg

 

📎CP-MV2-Curve.jpg

I wonder that causes that spike in the curve?  The face shims hitting the backers? 

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

 

Midlife, could you take a screen shot of the base piston, midvalve piston, and ics info? I've got restackor pro also but I keep forgetting to measure the damn parts when I have the forks apart.

 

 

I've got my recently acquired set of forks sitting here and I was thinking about running a tighter float (~.3) and at least minus one face shim also. 

 

So probably about like this with tweaking of the 17.3's to adjust float height.

F=.3

20.1

20.1

18.1

16.1

14.1

11.25

11.25

17.3

17.3

17.3

 

 

I just got a pile of shims from mx-tech so I can play with this stuff and not have to try and scavenge shims from other forks, so much less frustrating.  ? 

 

 

 

I used the same params as Dadee's simulation.  See above for screen shots.

 

 

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

2012 WR450F, using a shim stack with inferred thicknesses and guessing the float is ~0.3mm.

 

Bike weighs 240 no fuel, 253 with fuel.  I weigh 220 + gear.  Forks have 0.5s in them, with 350ccs of oil.  This fork has a bleed stack in it, that isn't modeled here.  My main complaint is that it can be somewhat harsh on high speed stuff, but its not too bad.   I blame the bleed stack for blocking the oil flow.   My other complaint is that the fork drops a lot on steep downhills, although its much, much better than stock with the 0.5s and 350ccs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dadee has 90 pounds damping force for 400 pounds of bike and rider. (170 + 220 +?)  = 0.225 lb/lb

 

I have 120 pounds of damping force for 470 pounds of bike and rider (220 + 250 + ?) = .255 lb/lb

 

My damping is about 10% stiffer.   I'd probably be happy if I got rid of the bleed stack, bumped the springs to 0.52s and dropped the oil level to 300 ccs ?

 

Removing 2 face shims from the mv removes some of the HS damping without touching the LS. (Baseline = stock)

 

 

How soft is too soft, damping wise ?  I don't want it to wallow at high speeds.

Edited October 9, 2014 by MidlifeCrisisGuy

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

I'm going to be busy for the next few days.  Not sure if I'll be able to run any sims.  I'll check back when I can.

[Kyle Tarry]

Having 50 different individual graphs is nuts.  These need to be overlaid on top of each other to make any sense of the differences.

 

Plotting damping coefficient instead of damping force makes it much easier to see the relative difference between setups.

 

C-P's setup is right around the "standard" SSS woods valving.  Dadee's setup is a lot softer (only 6 face shims with a 14 mm clamp!).  Gots-a-sol's stack is definitely odd, but that doesn't mean it won't work.

 

Not sure what conclusions to draw without the ability to directly compare these.

[kan3]

Midlife, you can add tabs in your restackor worksheet and then reference those tabs for the graphs. That way you can overlay as many as you want.

[Dadee]

I've considered adding some shims to the HS towards the end of the taper to give it some more progression but haven't had any issues yet. If I start bottoming I'll be ordering some shims and tearing my forks apart. I also feel having such a thick 16mm shim reduces the 14s clamping effect.

[GP1K]

So now the guy who two weeks ago was a self-admitted 'total noob at suspension', who's suspension work resume includes exactly one bike (his) where he was hand-held through the entire process, is now an expert in the field and giving advice to others. Interesting.

[Dadee]

So now the guy who two weeks ago was a self-admitted 'total noob at suspension', who's suspension work resume includes exactly one bike (his) where he was hand-held through the entire process, is now an expert in the field and giving advice to others. Interesting.

Who is this being directed towards?

[GP1K]

Who is this being directed towards?

 

MLCG, of course.

[Dadee]

I saw nowhere he proclaimed himself as a suspension expert. In fact no one here has. That's why this thread was created though, to share experience and knowledge on the subject. So far this seems to be a very good thread. If we already knew it all then we wouldn't be comparing each others setups and feedback.

Unless you have something useful to contribute I feel you should take your comments elsewhere. Let's try to keep this on topic.

[GP1K]

"Share experience and knowledge". His knowledge is two weeks old and all spoon-fed by people that DO know what they're doing, or Internet research, with almost zero actual hands-on experience. But he sure knows all the buzz words and *sounds* like he knows what he's talking about. A dangerous combo, IMO.

 

Personally I ALWAYS consider the source before listening to ANY advice, especially on the Internet. But hey, if you want to follow the advice of someone that clearly is a noob that desperately wants to sound like an expert, knock yourself out.

 

My contribution is a PSA... heed it or not.

[Dadee]

"Share experience and knowledge". His knowledge is two weeks old and all spoon-fed by people that DO know what they're doing, or Internet research, with almost zero actual hands-on experience. But he sure knows all the buzz words and *sounds* like he knows what he's talking about. A dangerous combo, IMO.

Personally I ALWAYS consider the source before listening to ANY advice, especially on the Internet. But hey, if you want to follow the advice of someone that clearly is a noob that desperately wants to sound like an expert, knock yourself out.

My contribution is a PSA... heed it or not.

You're kicking up dust for no reason. Anyone on the forums should be taking whatever is said on any thread with a grain of salt. That should go without saying. No one is claiming to be a professional and if he's learned this in 2 weeks, then good for him! I'm happy to have his input whether it be completely correct or not, I'm still learning from it.

If you think you can do it better either contribute to the thread with useful information or go make your own. You've done nothing but point fingers.

[GP1K]

Ok good luck with that. I hope your suspension works out.

[C-P]

"Share experience and knowledge". His knowledge is two weeks old and all spoon-fed by people that DO know what they're doing, or Internet research, with almost zero actual hands-on experience. But he sure knows all the buzz words and *sounds* like he knows what he's talking about. A dangerous combo, IMO.

Personally I ALWAYS consider the source before listening to ANY advice, especially on the Internet. But hey, if you want to follow the advice of someone that clearly is a noob that desperately wants to sound like an expert, knock yourself out.

My contribution is a PSA... heed it or not.

I think we all know MLCG is hardly the expert. How many here are? Suspension seems to be largely a trial and error art - test test test. I personally like the enthusiasm...he's trying. Feel free to correct anything you believe is wrong...it's good stuff for those of us trying to learn.

[baconispower]

i 100% agree, nobody knows how this stuff really works, suspension shops and professional tuners are scam artists and it's not even remotely a science;  all they really do is charge customers large sums of money for some $5 per hour employee to plug eronneous numbers into restaktor.  most of their customers don't undertstand or know what they are buying so it doesn't matter what settings you actually end up with anyways.    it's really that simple.   this thread and others like it illustrate just how easy suspsension can be to tune.

Edited October 9, 2014 by DRS

[Dadee]

I wouldn't say they are scam artists. Maybe some but I know people like Stillwell actually have dynos and measure internal pressures at given speeds for a certain weight etc etc etc. This restackor thing is an incredible tool but really basic compared to what the true pioneers do.

[C-P]

Yeah, I wouldn't agree that all tuners are scam artists, but you can pay a lot of $$ to get worse than we're doing here...pretty much why this forum exists.

[C-P]

Here is the same MV with 0.3 and 0.45 floats. It gets way stiffer.

📎Sol-MV-Curve-0.3.jpg

📎Sol-MV-Curve-0.45.jpg

Also, notice how the 2nd doesn't have that weird spike in the middle, it's nice and progressive. Is that the tighter float?