WR450 cylinder boring and Nikasil plated



25 replies to this topic
  • Kennoy

Posted October 08, 2014 - 01:35 PM

#1

I have a 08 WR450. Started hearing a little piston slap so I tore it down and sure enough needs piston and cylinder replacement/boring with bigger piston.

 

I'm NOT looking for all out power. Need reliability. I do 85% of my riding down in Baja. 

 

Looking for a GOOD shop with a GOOD reputation to send my cylinder and the NEW bigger piston to so it can be bored and nikasil plated.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks



  • stevethe

Posted October 08, 2014 - 02:28 PM

#2

http://www.mt-llc.com/

No need for a bigger piston they can replate to the original size.

  • Kennoy

Posted October 08, 2014 - 03:01 PM

#3

http://www.mt-llc.com/

No need for a bigger piston they can replate to the original size.

Cylinder has some scoring and some grooves around the top from the rings. Needs to be bored first.

 

Thanks



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 08, 2014 - 03:04 PM

#4

The chances of it running and still needing an over-bore are pretty slim.

 

Treating and re--plating are usually all you need 

 

Just mic it to the service manual specs to see where you are



  • Kennoy

Posted October 08, 2014 - 03:39 PM

#5

The chances of it running and still needing an over-bore are pretty slim.

 

Treating and re--plating are usually all you need 

 

Just mic it to the service manual specs to see where you are

Really? How many engines have you taken apart? Been working on my own stuff for 35 yrs. I've taken apart many. 2 stroke, 4 stroke. singles, twins, triples ;4 cylinder and even the old CBX 6 cylinder. I've seen some pretty messed up pistons and the bike still ran.On my current bike, there is some vertical scoring (not major) from the piston and grooves around the top from the rings. Normally I just buy new but this time I want to bore and replate

 

Thanks.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted October 08, 2014 - 04:07 PM

#6

Really? How many engines have you taken apart? Been working on my own stuff for 35 yrs. I've taken apart many. 2 stroke, 4 stroke. singles, twins, triples ;4 cylinder and even the old CBX 6 cylinder. I've seen some pretty messed up pistons and the bike still ran.On my current bike, there is some vertical scoring (not major) from the piston and grooves around the top from the rings. Normally I just buy new but this time I want to bore and replate

 

Thanks.

 

Wow, so defensive.

 

It's obviously not as bad as needing a re-bore, or you would be burning blue smoke all day long from the blow-by, have poor throttle response, and it would be way down on power.

...unless you chose not to divulge that.

 

You are implying that it is not 2 hundreds worth of scoring, so that would indicate that there is no need for an over-bore.

 

Pistons usually come in 1 or 2 hundreths over-size, to accomdate wear, and still stay in class dispacement size.

 

Weisco offers sizes from 94.95 - 97.0 mm in 1 hundreth increments. Stock is 95.00.

 

Now, if you mean a 'big-bore' piston, as in 2mm or larger, that's a different set of circumstances:

 

You just WANT a rebore and a bigger piston.

 

Why do you assume that because I have an opinion to your public post, that I have never worked on a motor?



  • flyandride

Posted October 08, 2014 - 07:05 PM

#7

A Cylinder Works standard bore kit is under $400 on ebay.  Seems like a better way to go.  



  • William1

Posted October 09, 2014 - 05:05 AM

#8

Really? How many engines have you taken apart? Been working on my own stuff for 35 yrs. I've taken apart many. 2 stroke, 4 stroke. singles, twins, triples ;4 cylinder and even the old CBX 6 cylinder. I've seen some pretty messed up pistons and the bike still ran.On my current bike, there is some vertical scoring (not major) from the piston and grooves around the top from the rings. Normally I just buy new but this time I want to bore and replate

 

Thanks.

Grooves and damage has to be very severe to prevent a repair/replate. If the damage is really bad, often they simply will consider the core garabage and not touch it un;less it is rare or has had special work done to it.

 

I think you'll find Krannie has done more engines this year than you have done in your lifetime. Truth be told, if you had all the experience you profess to have, you would not be the one asking questions.



  • stevethe

Posted October 09, 2014 - 10:51 AM

#9

A Cylinder Works standard bore kit is under $400 on ebay. Seems like a better way to go.


A lot of people have had good luck with cyl. works. However I think the cyl. is made in China.

Millinium uses a good mix for their platings. You could also throw a 13.1 J. E. piston in there.

  • Kennoy

Posted October 09, 2014 - 09:25 PM

#10

Grooves and damage has to be very severe to prevent a repair/replate. If the damage is really bad, often they simply will consider the core garabage and not touch it un;less it is rare or has had special work done to it.

 

I think you'll find Krannie has done more engines this year than you have done in your lifetime. Truth be told, if you had all the experience you profess to have, you would not be the one asking questions.

Sorry, :doh:  I mis read Krannie's post when he said "It's obviously not as bad as needing a re-bore, or you would be burning blue smoke all day long from the blow-by, have poor throttle response, and it would be way down on power" 

 

Not sure what I read but I was wrong,

 

Sorry Kah Ran Nee



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  • GuyGraham

Posted October 10, 2014 - 09:47 AM

#11

Even if the barrel is badly scored, it will have the OE plating stripped off, then the scores will be welded up and it will be bored to a pre-plating size, then plated back to std OE size

 

You are thinking in terms of the old style cast iron liners, where they were rebored to the next oversize, typically +0.25mm or +0.5mm when worn or damaged

This is not the case with modern plated cylinders

This is why Yamaha only supply one size of piston - there are no 'oversize' piston

As said above, some aftermarket piston manufacturers supply bigger pistons but this is for obtaining the correct clearance rather than for overboring to next size up to reclaim a worn/damaged cylinder



  • Texas2Smoker

Posted October 17, 2014 - 09:13 PM

#12

I'd only go with US Chrome, I'd say the second choice is Millenium but they are lesser quality and about the same price. Terrible customer service I found though. Also Millenium stole the process from US Chrome but never got their plating to be as good/ consistent.

  • DeepPurplishBlue

Posted October 17, 2014 - 11:29 PM

#13

Why even bother? A brand new cylinder is $240 at Partzilla...

By the time you ship your cylinder both ways and pay the replating company
you will have about that much into a used cylinder. Seems like it just makes
more sense to get a new one and be done with it.

  • stevethe

Posted October 18, 2014 - 06:40 AM

#14

I'd only go with US Chrome, I'd say the second choice is Millenium but they are lesser quality and about the same price. Terrible customer service I found though. Also Millenium stole the process from US Chrome but never got their plating to be as good/ consistent.

 

Interesting as I've heard it Millennium did stellar work. They are honed to finished size.

 

Why even bother? A brand new cylinder is $240 at Partzilla...

By the time you ship your cylinder both ways and pay the replating company
you will have about that much into a used cylinder. Seems like it just makes
more sense to get a new one and be done with it.

 

That's certainly a good way to go as well. 



  • Texas2Smoker

Posted October 18, 2014 - 01:51 PM

#15

Interesting as I've heard it Millennium did stellar work. They are honed to finished size.


That's certainly a good way to go as well.

They do ok work, US Chrome does the best work though as I see it. I have actually heard of problems with Millenium as well.

I talked to the GM of US Chrome at length about a lot of things. He is a very nice guy and deserves our business as far as I'm concerned. When I called Millenium I got a surly woman on the phone who was not happy to have to explain some things to me, so I said see ya.

I would advise against going eBay route as a cylinder plated by US Chrome OR Millenium is of MUCH higher quality than any factory plating, and will last longer as well.

  • William1

Posted October 18, 2014 - 03:06 PM

#16

I have heard both M/T and USC do great work and stand behind the work. I usually use M/T and have a rapore with them, not that that means anything, just that they have never disappointed me and often have barrels/pistons on the shelve ready to ship. I call, the order goes out within 24 business hours. I get a core charge that is refunded when the oild barrel is sent back. They take all barrrels back as a base core, unless they are shattered. Not sure if USC also does this.

I know a few have had problems and both companies were reasonable and quick to try to make the customer happy. The few times they did not, I am pretty positive it was actually a customers royal screw up.

 

Sadly, Yamaha OEM coating is not as tough as M/T or USC. Not sure why.



  • stevethe

Posted October 18, 2014 - 03:54 PM

#17

I have heard both M/T and USC do great work and stand behind the work. I usually use M/T and have a rapore with them, not that that means anything, just that they have never disappointed me and often have barrels/pistons on the shelve ready to ship. I call, the order goes out within 24 business hours. I get a core charge that is refunded when the oild barrel is sent back. They take all barrrels back as a base core, unless they are shattered. Not sure if USC also does this.
I know a few have had problems and both companies were reasonable and quick to try to make the customer happy. The few times they did not, I am pretty positive it was actually a customers royal screw up.

Sadly, Yamaha OEM coating is not as tough as M/T or USC. Not sure why.


William,
Did you ever measure their piston to cylinder clearence to see if you get tight clearences.
Just wondering as most bore and hone shops do some sloppy loose work.

  • William1

Posted October 18, 2014 - 04:59 PM

#18

William,
Did you ever measure their piston to cylinder clearence to see if you get tight clearences.
Just wondering as most bore and hone shops do some sloppy loose work.

Yup, as well as check ring gap.

 

Over the years, getting a 'perfect fit' is not a 100% sure thing. But as long as it is close to being 'in range', I do not sweat it. I find it tight more often than loose. I resolve that when using a NikaSil barrel by emery cloth on the piston in a rotating jig. Not like olden tymes when I could whip out the hone and hit the barrel witn a few swipes. If it is loose, I send it back. I think I've sent only a few back over the years.

 

Local guys doing bore jobs and honing on iron barrels, the biggest issue is the bore taper. I have not ever had a taper issue with a nikasil barrel.



  • DeepPurplishBlue

Posted October 18, 2014 - 10:11 PM

#19

Sadly, Yamaha OEM coating is not as tough as M/T or USC. Not sure why.



Maybe... but the last one I replaced had survived 11 years and thousands
of miles so I guess Yamaha did OK...

  • GuyGraham

Posted October 19, 2014 - 01:44 AM

#20

I have used Langcourt in the UK on multiple previous occasions with no issues

 

They have a US operation as well

http://www.langcourt.com/index.html

 

Just another option to MT or USC






 
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