Reduce engine braking on 2012 WR450

Engine Clutch & Components STM Slipper Clutch

76 replies to this topic
  • vlxjim

Posted September 15, 2014 - 04:43 PM

#41

Maybe it would be safe to say that advancing timing won't decrease engine braking?  I don't know.  :excuseme:

It may or may not. It would depend on more variables. 

 

But for the OP here it would not help. He needs to calm down the low end a little.

 

It would be nice if Yamaha would of given a Fuel boost cell for the throttle hit. It would be loved by the YZ guys. It kinda works like an accelerator pump on a carb. But would give us the tool to have more control at the hit. 



  • stevethe

Posted September 15, 2014 - 04:44 PM

#42

The old WRs uncorked compared to the new WR's uncorked is night and day.

 

In what way. It seems they are both night and day. It's all most impossible to ride a non $40. GYTR kitted or otherwise opened and re-jetted 07-11 WR450. I assume it's the same with the fuel injected one.  



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:07 PM

#43

OH I know its because when you rip out all of you electrical to save weight you loss the ability to flash the ECU on the bike. I know this as I tried to help you back then.

 

You are wrong on this point, sort of. 

 

Yes, back then, last fall, I didn't have programming functionality figured out on a non eStart bike.  Actually, I knew what to do, I just didn't do it because I was only going to ride the bike a few more times before putting it away for the winter.  

 

I now have it figured out.  To program a non battery equipped bike you just connect a 12V source to the bike's main harness.   IIRC the brown wires are the switched 12V.  Connect a battery to that and to GND.   The fuel pump will run momentarily.   Then use the programmer or the FI tool.  They both work using this procedure.

 

On the FI YZ450Fs the fuel pump doesn't run when the tools are connected.   It seems the ECU doesn't enable the fuel pump unless the engine is turning over.   With the WR, the fuel pump starts as soon as power is applied, thus when you connect one of the tools, the fuel pump tries to steal power to run from them and it doesn't have enough capacity for that, so they shut down.

 

So the solution is to carry a small 12V battery and connect it to the bike before doing any programming.

 

And, for the record, I didn't rip off any harness back then.  Everything electrical remained totally in tact until recently when I removed some connectors from the front of the bike to make the harness easier to move out of the way.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 05:07 PM.


  • GP1K

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:17 PM

#44



 

  errr... less lift and duration than prior WRs ?  Ditto compared to YZs as well !  They call that DETUNING.  See my cam selection table !

 

 

I didn't ask about your cam table, I asked WHO exactly (besides you) has ever said that cams were a weak link in the WR, that they NEED to be swapped? Or that they were part of the EPA restrictions? Go on, I'll wait.

 

 

So they decreased the lift in 2007 why ?  The YZ, which runs the same aftermarket exhaust systems as the WR must have the wrong cams then because they retained the high lift.  The WR exhaust cam lost duration as well.   You need to go tell Yamaha !

 

 

So you're comparing an old carb'ed YZF to a new FI WR, and you think they're the exact same thing? :facepalm:   You really are that clueless, aren't you? You need to go learn a thing or two about how engines work and how a YZF is NOT a WR, how they have very different missions in life, and as such MANY aspects of them are very,  very different. One would think with all the research you've done, you'd come to that very basic conclusion, but no. Instead you merely see what you want to see in that data, and just randomly compare apples and oranges like it means something. It doesn't.

 

 

  Oh, no !  Not fear, uncertainty and doubt about adjusting the valves !!!   I guess we got a good indication of your mechanical skills.  Like going too far with mixtures and timing couldn't hurt anything !

 

 

Yup and we know exactly what kind of shade tree mechanic you are. I've always been baffled why the tinkerer extraordinaire would *not* want to tinker with his FI, when it's just ripe for the tinkering. It just never made any sense at all... until I read this:

 

http://www.thumperta...e-with-the-ecu/

 

And realized you won't tune your FI because you CAN'T. In your quest for ultra light weight, you hacked up your bike to the point where your tuner won't work anymore. So you CAN'T tune your FI. Which sure explains a lot. It explains your gearing. It explains you cam obsession. It explains your stubborn refusal tune your FI. All trying to tune out the shitty all zero maps with other mods because you screwed yourself out of doing it the easy way, genius. 

 

So yeah, I'm not a mechanic by trade, never claimed to be. I work on what I know I can work on, and leave the heavy lifting to a real mechanic. But at least I can ride, which why I bought my bikes... to ride them, not work on them constantly.

 

 

  My bike forgot to read that bible.   I'll slap it around and tell it to smarten up.  Or maybe the FI is pretty smart already ???  Hmmm.... 50 hours since I changed the exhaust, no hole in piston, no backfire, runs great, great power, great throttle response.... stupid bike !  I need a carburetor.  NOT !

 

 

Runs great compared to what? No frame of reference, again. You think just because you haven't burned a hole in your piston that's 100% proof positive your bike is running perfectly? LOL what a joke, just proves once again how clueless you really are.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:25 PM

#45

It may or may not. It would depend on more variables. 

 

But for the OP here it would not help. He needs to calm down the low end a little.

 

It would be nice if Yamaha would of given a Fuel boost cell for the throttle hit. It would be loved by the YZ guys. It kinda works like an accelerator pump on a carb. But would give us the tool to have more control at the hit. 

 

They did.  Its called the woods map.  Lean it out and retard the ignition at low RPMs.  What's not to love ?  <-- I'm being sarcastic.

 

The real problem is that with the stock exhaust cam the air flow is very pulsey at low RPMs.  There is a lot of back pressure in the cylinder.  When you install a more open exhaust cam everything gets smoother and the hit is no longer a large jump in power.  The fuel isn't overcoming a big engine braking effect.  This also allows the engine to lug way better.  This stuff all goes hand in hand.

 

Who is going to be the first person to install the 08 YZ exhaust cam in their bike ?

 

One other thing I did to mine is smooth out the flow over the cold start button plunger.

 

See this:

 

I didn't use a piece of cork.   I used the epoxy gum that is used to seal fuel tank leaks.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 05:28 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:27 PM

#46

And realized you won't tune your FI because you CAN'T.

 

WRONG.  See my sig about setting C1 to +8.  Both the programmer and the FI tool work on my bike when I attach a 12V battery.  Nice try though.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 05:28 PM.


  • GP1K

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:31 PM

#47

WRONG.  See my sig about setting C1 to +8.  Both the programmer and the FI tool work on my bike when I attach a 12V battery.  Nice try though.

 

So now we're just back to 'won't' because you're a stubborn fool. How come you didn't reply to anything else I said except this one non-answer?



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:33 PM

#48

So you're comparing an old carb'ed YZF to a new FI WR, and you think they're the exact same thing?

  No I don't think they are the same.  Different heads, etc AS I DOCUMENTED IN MY CAM INFO THREAD.

 

Furthermore, you can get the air flow WAY more uneven and with lower velocity with an FI system than you can with the carb.   If the cams work with the carb (ignoring the head for a minute), its going to work fine with the FI system.

 

Sooner or later other people are going to start testing this stuff and reaching the same conclusions that I am and you are GOING TO LOOK LIKE A FOOL.  But keep shoveling away.  Keep arguing everything is wrong and calling names.   Better trade that WR and 250F off on that KTM 350F so you can make a graceful exit from here !  LOL.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 05:37 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:34 PM

#49

So now we're just back to 'won't' because you're a stubborn fool. How come you didn't reply to anything else I said except this one non-answer?

 

Because I have better things to do than argue every friggin piece of BS you post !  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

 

I pick my battles with you ! LOL.

 

But keep telling us how wrong this all is and how stupid we are.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 05:36 PM.


  • GP1K

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:38 PM

#50

  No I don't think they are the same.  Different heads, etc AS I DOCUMENTED IN MY CAM INFO THREAD.

 

Furthermore, you can get the air flow WAY more uneven and with lower velocity with an FI system than you can with the carb.   If the cam work with the carb (ignoring the head for a minute), its going to work fine with the FI system.

 

Sooner or later other people are going to start testing this stuff and reaching the same conclusions that I am and you are GOING TO LOOK LIKE A FOOL.  But keep shoveling away.  Keep arguing everything is wrong and calling names.   Better trade that WR and 250F off on that KTM 350F so you can make a graceful exit from here !  LOL.

 

 

Trust me, you already look like a fool, and everyone can see it... but you.

 

But keep shoveling away, keep proving just how ignorant you are, keep disagreeing with everyone on this forum that's actually trying to help you, because you know it all and they're all just chumps. Because dammit, you've done your *research*!



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  • GP1K

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:40 PM

#51

Because I have better things to do than argue every friggin piece of BS you post !  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

 

I pick my battles with you ! LOL.

 

But keep telling us how wrong this all is and how stupid we are.

 

Well you're right about one thing, I do have a lot more experience than you... with bikes.

 

 

Not we, just YOU. You do realize nobody is agreeing with you, right? Are you seriously that delusional?



  • stevethe

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:40 PM

#52


 

Who is going to be the first person to install the 08 YZ exhaust cam in their bike ?

 

If they do you should warn them it will probably need to be kicked when cold and the only thing that will fly is Marry Poppins in their dreams.

 

Remember boys they actually make a GYTR cam upgrade. If your not cheap enough.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:41 PM

#53


Runs great compared to what? No frame of reference, again. You think just because you haven't burned a hole in your piston that's 100% proof positive your bike is running perfectly? LOL what a joke, just proves once again how clueless you really are.

 

Well, according to you, we HAVE TO, reprogram our FI system when we make a change JUST LIKE A CARB.   If that was the case, our bikes should hardly run.  BUT YET THEY DO !   So who is out of touch with reality here ?

 

Furthermore, by your theory, a bike running an FMF exhaust should need the FMF map, ie positive fuel and advanced ignition to run properly.  AND YET PEOPLE RUN THE WOODS MAP (leaned out and retarded ignition) WITH AFTERMARKET EXHAUST SYSTEMS.    Explain that, Mr. KnowItAll ?????

 

I keep telling you that the programmer is a fuel trim table, that does small fuel ratio adjusts to the mass flow that the ECU reads.   It is NOT an absolute fuel delivery table.

 

But keep arguing.  Keep it going.  Keep fighting it.  Keep insulting people.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:43 PM

#54

If they do you should warn them it will probably need to be kicked when cold and the only thing that will fly is Marry Poppins in their dreams.

 

Remember boys they actually make a GYTR cam upgrade. If your not cheap enough.

 

 

My bike has no eStart.  I can't comment of how a YZ cam is going to work with eStart one way or another.  So I haven't.  You guys know it all, so I assume you knew that.



  • GP1K

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:45 PM

#55

 

Well, according to you, we HAVE TO, reprogram our FI system when we make a change JUST LIKE A CARB.   If that was the case, our bikes should hardly run.  BUT YET THEY DO !   So who is out of touch with reality here ?

 

 

 

You, as usual.

 

 

Furthermore, by your theory, a bike running an FMF exhaust should need the FMF map, ie positive fuel and advanced ignition to run properly.  AND YET PEOPLE RUN THE WOODS MAP (leaned out and retarded ignition) WITH AFTERMARKET EXHAUST SYSTEMS.    Explain that, Mr. KnowItAll ?????

 

 

You really just don't get how the mapping works and how it affects the bike, do you?

 

 

I keep telling you that the programmer is a fuel trim table, that does small fuel ratio adjusts to the mass flow that the ECU reads.   It is NOT an absolute fuel delivery table.

 

But keep arguing.  Keep it going.  Keep fighting it.  Keep insulting people.

 

 

Not people, JUST YOU. I am arguing with you and you alone. And nobody is agreeing with you, because YOU ARE WRONG. So stop trying to turn this around, you're fooling nobody.


Edited by GP1K, September 15, 2014 - 05:48 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:54 PM

#56

Answer me this, GP1K.

 

Does a bike with an aftermarket exhaust run with the FMF map ?

 

Does a bike with an aftermarket exhaust run with the woods map ?

 

If your theory is true, how can that be ?  You tell me that a bike with an aftermarket exhaust can't run with the stock map (all zeros) let alone the woods map.   And if the woods map doesn't harm a bike with an aftermarket exhaust, how can the stock map (all zeros) be bad for it ?   Are there special combinations of fuel and ignition ?  I don't think so.  Yamaha didn't tell us about that if there is.

 

So please stop insulting and criticizing and EXPLAIN TO US HOW THE FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM ON THE WR450F works.  Now is your chance.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 05:56 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:58 PM

#57

My bike has no eStart.  I can't comment of how a YZ cam is going to work with eStart one way or another.  So I haven't.  You guys know it all, so I assume you knew that.

 

It's not a question of you guys. I'll be a carb guy and enjoying it !

 

The issue is there are a lot of people reading these forums. Misinformation from the relatively new to the newer isn't good. It makes us all look like unchecked squids. :naughty:


Edited by stevethe, September 15, 2014 - 06:20 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 05:59 PM

#58

I'm requoting you here GP1K, just in case you forgot what you said.

 

 

Plus you MUST adjust the FI if you've made major changes to the intake & exhaust JUST LIKE A CARB'ED BIKE. But you remain steeped in denial about that.

 


 


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 06:00 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 15, 2014 - 06:04 PM

#59


You would not know this because you have not tried it WHY?

 

 

Because I forgot to read the bible that the parishioners on this forum worship.

 

Because I'm an independent thinker.

 

Because I decided to change the exhaust cam while I was checking my valves.

 

Because I didn't mind the stock map and wanted way less exhaust braking and I didn't see the map as doing that.

 

Because I wanted to experiment with cams.

 

AND I DID !  AND IT WORKED !

 

FWIW, I'm not the one fooling around with a programmer asking for more low end snap, less exhaust braking and less throttle sensitivity.   I'm the guy that is saying my bike works way, way better than stock.  I don't think its a coincidence that I changed my exhaust cam and the other guys are fooling around with programmers.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 15, 2014 - 06:06 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted September 15, 2014 - 06:09 PM

#60

 

I'm requoting you here GP1K, just in case you forgot what you said.

 

 

 


 

 

I know one thing for sure. If I owned a fuel injected model I would be all over any published and suggested maps prior to other mods other than opening it up. It's the logical way to begin unless you know where you want to go as in you are a professional tuner or you really know what you are doing.







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