2006 WR450 - Burns oil, loud engine


21 replies to this topic
  • he man

Posted September 09, 2014 - 05:18 AM

#1

I have a higher hour bike (estimated at 300 hours+) thats needed some maintenance.

 

Ive been doing weekend rides that have the bike one for about 18 hours in 2 days, and itll drink about 1/4 quart of oil in those two days. Is it possible that the oil is blowing by the rings and burning? Im assuming at this point i need to start thinking about new piston and rings at minimum.

 

the engines also very vibby and loud. Sounds like theres metal rattling somewhere, but i cant figure out where. I have been riding her really hard and i checked the valves just 1 ride ago, they were getting close to being out of spec, so i decided to get one more ride before i fully adjust them.

 

is it characteristic of the WR450 to have a loud rattling motor?



  • stevethe

Posted September 09, 2014 - 05:42 AM

#2

I have a higher hour bike (estimated at 300 hours+) thats needed some maintenance.

 

Ive been doing weekend rides that have the bike one for about 18 hours in 2 days, and itll drink about 1/4 quart of oil in those two days. Is it possible that the oil is blowing by the rings and burning? Im assuming at this point i need to start thinking about new piston and rings at minimum.

 

the engines also very vibby and loud. Sounds like theres metal rattling somewhere, but i cant figure out where. I have been riding her really hard and i checked the valves just 1 ride ago, they were getting close to being out of spec, so i decided to get one more ride before i fully adjust them.

 

is it characteristic of the WR450 to have a loud rattling motor?

 

It is somewhat normal to have a loud motor. However if it has ever been run without watching the oil and run out, you will have top end damage at a least. You might do a leak down test. Check the cam journals for damage. You could also U tube for standard engine noise. Also check are you just overfilling it. 



  • he man

Posted September 09, 2014 - 05:54 AM

#3

Ive been very deligient with checking the oil every 3-4 hours while riding and its never run dry. The journals arent scarred or anything of the like last i checked (18 hours ago).

 

ill try to make a video as well and compare it to the youtube videos (since the mic might pick something up that i wouldnt hear normally).

 

How many hours do these bikes need before a top end rebuild?



  • stevethe

Posted September 09, 2014 - 06:09 AM

#4

Some opinions:  http://supermotojunk...ace-your-piston



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 09, 2014 - 12:37 PM

#5

300 hours and noise

 

Rebuild the top end, cam chain, cam chain tensioner, and re shim

 

Ideally, you should be doing a leak down test to confirm the quality of the valve and valve stem seals in the head 



  • he man

Posted September 10, 2014 - 05:50 AM

#6

Good stuff, guys thanks.

 

Is 300 hours listed somewhere in the service manual? The bike doenst have an hour meter, so its difficult for me to gauge.I will install one after i rebuild it.

 

What pressure should i perform the leakdown test on? HF sells one, ( when i rebuild the top end, i might as well lap the valves and check how true the stem is then)



  • stevethe

Posted September 10, 2014 - 06:21 AM

#7

What is a "leak down" test?  
  • Engines take lots of abuse. Mostly because they tend to be used in harsh conditions. They may power a chain saw, a go-kart, a leaf blower, or a dirt bike. So they may be exposed to dirt that clogs their air filters and moisture that corrodes their parts. They may be subjected to sudden accelerations or may be kept running at peak power for longer periods than they were designed.

    Here is all about the automobile engines that may help you to troubleshoot your problem or know more about your automotive engine.

    A leak down or a "cylinder leakage" test is about the same as a compression test because it tells how well the engine's cylinders are sealing. But instead of measuring cylinder pressure, it will measures cylinder pressure loss.

    A leak down test requires all the spark plugs be removed. Turn the crankshaft so that each piston is at top dead center (both valves closed) when each individual cylinder is tested. It is a good practice to start with the number one cylinder and follow the engine's firing order. It saves time in the long run and less turning of the crankshaft to get things lined up.

    Attach a threaded coupling to a leakage gauge and screw it into a spark plug hole. Attach Compressed air (80 to 90 psi) and feed it into the cylinder you are testing.

    An engine that is in great condition should show only 5 to 10% leakage/loss. An engine that is still in pretty good condition may show up to 20% leakage/loss. But more than 30% leakage/loss indicates trouble.

    A cool thing about a leakage test (as opposed to a compression test) is that it can be a faster and easier way to figure out where the pressure is going. If you hear air coming out of the tailpipe, it indicates a leaky exhaust valve. Air coming out of the throttle body or carburetor points to a leaky intake valve. Air coming out of the breather vent or PCV valve fitting would tell you the rings and/or cylinders are worn.

    A leakage test can also be used along with a compression test to help diagnose other kinds of problems.

    A cylinder that has poor compression, but minimal leakage, usually has a valvetrain problem such as a worn cam lobe, broken valve spring, collapsed lifter, bent push rod, etc.

    If all the cylinders have low compression, but show minimal leakage, the most likely cause is incorrect valve timing. The timing belt or chain may be off a notch or two.

    If compression is good and leakage is minimal, but a cylinder is misfiring or shows up weak in a power balance test, it indicates a fuel delivery (bad injector) or ignition problem (fouled spark plug or bad plug wire).



  • stevethe

Posted September 10, 2014 - 06:25 AM

#8

I don't think there is a 300 hr piston change in the shop manual. Some people take the pistons out and say they were still good at those hrs. However burning oil is the sign you have something going on that's not right. Either piston, rings or valve seals.

By the way you do not lap titanium valves.



  • he man

Posted September 10, 2014 - 07:15 AM

#9

i did not know you couldn't lap Ti valves.

 

The leak down test sounds like it would be useful to determine what, at minimal needs to be rebuilt. The HF runs at 15PSI, Ive heard that this might not be enough for a higher compression motor.

Just as a way to compare power to stock, can this bike power wheelie off of 4th gear? ( mine will not), in 3rd gear, if i hit the sweet spot it will come up, but it wont come up close to the balance point.


Edited by he man, September 10, 2014 - 07:15 AM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 10, 2014 - 05:09 PM

#10

To many variables for that to be a valid comparison

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  • he man

Posted September 11, 2014 - 07:28 AM

#11

any recommendations for top end rebuild kit?

 

i took a part the top end before i could even get a leakdown tester. probably shouldn't of done that, but oh well, there no way to test the components now is there?



  • GuyGraham

Posted September 11, 2014 - 08:54 AM

#12

OE all the way on the parts



  • stevethe

Posted September 11, 2014 - 11:04 AM

#13

any recommendations for top end rebuild kit?

i took a part the top end before i could even get a leakdown tester. probably shouldn't of done that, but oh well, there no way to test the components now is there?

Get the bore checked by a good machine shop. Also have them check your old piston clearance to see what you had.
OEM is good stuff as mentioned by Guy Graham above.

Edited by stevethe, September 11, 2014 - 11:05 AM.


  • he man

Posted September 17, 2014 - 03:53 PM

#14

everything checked out good  and the clearances matched my manual. i did check the end gap on all my old rings and they were way out of spec (even pass the limits). 

 

i picked up a new piston kit. ive gapped my rings except for the oil expansion ring. how am i suppose to snip this guy properly (or am i not suppose to?) its about 1 rib longer than the OEM ring ( the tougne and grooves arent the same size so  i cant actually match it up).

 

im assuming that its called an expasion ring and i should just nut up and stuff that sucker in there (with the ends butting and facing down ofcourse)


Edited by he man, September 17, 2014 - 03:58 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted September 17, 2014 - 04:15 PM

#15

everything checked out good and the clearances matched my manual. i did check the end gap on all my old rings and they were way out of spec (even pass the limits).

i picked up a new piston kit. ive gapped my rings except for the oil expansion ring. how am i suppose to snip this guy properly (or am i not suppose to?) its about 1 rib longer than the OEM ring ( the tougne and grooves arent the same size so i cant actually match it up).

im assuming that its called an expasion ring and i should just nut up and stuff that sucker in there (with the ends butting and facing down ofcourse)

Usually the rings don't need to be gaped. Don't gap the oil rings.
Look in the shop manual they specify where the gaps are suppose to point. They also specify the amount of gap.

Edited by stevethe, September 17, 2014 - 04:16 PM.


  • he man

Posted September 26, 2014 - 04:14 PM

#16

Update:

 

i threw the piston in and timed her, cycled her over by hand several times and noticed nothing unusual, so i fired her up and she would only stay on with the choke. I thought i mistimed it by a hair, so i decided to open her up and check again. I either retarded or advanced the timing on the intake by 1 tooth. In my experience with interference engines, this usually doesnt do much damage at all.

 

I retimed her so the dots are perfectly in line with the top of the head and the flywheel wheel was on the line after the "H".

 

I cranked her over and she wants to start, but just wont. If i choke her up and really coax her with the throttle she will start but not hold an idle.

 

Any idea where i should start looking?

 

I have a strong spark, the timing is correct. Is there  ground that i dont know of? ( i didnt install the triangular engine mount that sits above the cam cover.



  • stevethe

Posted September 26, 2014 - 04:30 PM

#17

Update:

i threw the piston in and timed her, cycled her over by hand several times and noticed nothing unusual, so i fired her up and she would only stay on with the choke. I thought i mistimed it by a hair, so i decided to open her up and check again. I either retarded or advanced the timing on the intake by 1 tooth. In my experience with interference engines, this usually doesnt do much damage at all.

I retimed her so the dots are perfectly in line with the top of the head and the flywheel wheel was on the line after the "H".

I cranked her over and she wants to start, but just wont. If i choke her up and really coax her with the throttle she will start but not hold an idle.

Any idea where i should start looking?

I have a strong spark, the timing is correct. Is there ground that i dont know of? ( i didnt install the triangular engine mount that sits above the cam cover.


Is your pilot jet plugged.

  • he man

Posted September 26, 2014 - 04:43 PM

#18

it shouldn't be, i tore the carb down to clean all the needles. when it was idling with the incorrect timing, it held an idle for about a minute and was able to rev up ( i didnt rev it much at all, but it was able to do it without hesitation).



  • stevethe

Posted September 26, 2014 - 04:54 PM

#19

it shouldn't be, i tore the carb down to clean all the needles. when it was idling with the incorrect timing, it held an idle for about a minute and was able to rev up ( i didnt rev it much at all, but it was able to do it without hesitation).


I believe there is a couple things that can go wrong in the carb.
Plugged jets especially the long round pilot jet. The vacuum slide in the front going in backwards.
The hot start nut cracked or a bad oring in there.

  • he man

Posted September 26, 2014 - 04:58 PM

#20

I will take a look at the hot start area. perhaps remove it and plug it. maybe that will help.

 

if the jets were plugged, then it wouldn't of idled at all before right? unless it was clogged up after the fact.

 

If the vacuum slide is definitely not installed backwards, i took a look down both sides and the correct sides match the airbox side and the engine side.

 

is it safe to say that being one tooth off on the timing wouldnt hurt the valves?


Edited by he man, September 26, 2014 - 04:58 PM.





 
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