Mapping change for harder hit down low



126 replies to this topic
  • Nuklhed

Posted September 03, 2014 - 06:51 PM

#61

mr. deeds, are you near Soda Springs?



  • mr.deeds

Posted September 03, 2014 - 07:50 PM

#62

mr. deeds, are you near Soda Springs?

I'm closer to Salmon...  Thanks for the suggestions, I wrote them down and will try them on Saturday.



  • rtheil

Posted September 04, 2014 - 01:07 PM

#63

I'm looking for mapping numbers to give me a more aggressive hit down low. (which is weird because I keep reading how these new wr450's have a abrupt hit).  I know there are a ton of mapping threads- but I wasn't quite finding what I was looking for.

 

What I am finding- on rough mountain trails with rocks and trees- I have to turn my throttle a lot more than I want to be able to clear them or use them to clear the next tree.  Kind of a pain while standing. My bike has enough power- but its just to smooth and more on the upper end.  It's weird because my WR will out run my CRF450x- but the Honda hits better for jumping obstacles and picking up the front tire... not to mention it feels a lot faster.

 

So if any of you have a good map for a harder down low hit- but keeping the smooth mid and high- I would appreciate it.

 

13 WR 450- comp ecu (I've tried a few different maps but nothing I am happy with).  It has the stock muffler- with the bigger baffle, that could be some of my problem right there.  And other than a 2 tooth bigger rear sprocket it is stock.  And I'm riding from 6500ft up.

 

Thanks

 

I have yet to purchase the comp ECU or tuner for my bike, but I've been doing a bit of research on how the maps work. One thing that stood out to me was that Yamaha has a map which has both ignition and fuel in the negatives at the low end (1/8 throttle, 4000 RPM) for smooth power delivery. I'm guessing if you wanted snappier power delivery you'd have to have positive numbers for a bigger punch in the fuel area, but timing is where I start to get confused, especially since I can't test anything. I look at this chart: https://www.yamahapa...rtunerchart.pdf and am thinking maybe you want the 2nd to last map (More gradual throttle response and longer torque feeling at mid-range RPM), or something close to it, compared with the "Smooth acceleration low-to-mid RPM, linear response feeling at small throttle opening" map. While I haven't had the chance to ride the hell out of my bike yet, I found that at 9k elevation the low end throttle response to be a bit too snappy, making me think I'd prefer that "smooth acceleration" map.

 

Buy a YZ if you consider removing 20 pounds from a bike.

 

Buying the YZ eliminates one of the great reasons to buy the WR... the Wide Ratio transmission, which, along with the cams of the WR, allow for better trail riding (IMO). Less focus on the clutch in the twisties allows for more confident riding without taking the copout route and getting a rekluse clutch.



  • revelc

Posted September 05, 2014 - 07:35 AM

#64

I have yet to purchase the comp ECU or tuner for my bike, but I've been doing a bit of research on how the maps work. One thing that stood out to me was that Yamaha has a map which has both ignition and fuel in the negatives at the low end (1/8 throttle, 4000 RPM) for smooth power delivery. I'm guessing if you wanted snappier power delivery you'd have to have positive numbers for a bigger punch in the fuel area, but timing is where I start to get confused, especially since I can't test anything. I look at this chart: https://www.yamahapa...rtunerchart.pdf and am thinking maybe you want the 2nd to last map (More gradual throttle response and longer torque feeling at mid-range RPM), or something close to it, compared with the "Smooth acceleration low-to-mid RPM, linear response feeling at small throttle opening" map. While I haven't had the chance to ride the hell out of my bike yet, I found that at 9k elevation the low end throttle response to be a bit too snappy, making me think I'd prefer that "smooth acceleration" map.


Actually lower fuel numbers and higher ignition numbers will give you the snap but make it run hotter. Adding fuel and retarding timing will will run richen the mix, allow for more controllable and smooth power while keeping the bike running cooler.


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  • rtheil

Posted September 05, 2014 - 07:59 AM

#65

Actually lower fuel numbers and higher ignition numbers will give you the snap but make it run hotter. Adding fuel and retarding timing will will run richen the mix, allow for more controllable and smooth power while keeping the bike running cooler.

 

Interesting. I wonder why Yamaha calls the map with retarded timing and less fuel "smooth acceleration". I guess I'll just have to wait until I get the comp ECU and tuner before I can get a good feel for the differences.

 

How do you like the Yosh RS4? I've been considering that one because it's stubby and turned outward (won't melt turn signals once added, like the stock pipe). I just don't want it to be so loud that I get nabbed by the noise police (CO has the 96db requirement).



  • revelc

Posted September 05, 2014 - 08:14 AM

#66

Interesting. I wonder why Yamaha calls the map with retarded timing and less fuel "smooth acceleration". I guess I'll just have to wait until I get the comp ECU and tuner before I can get a good feel for the differences.

How do you like the Yosh RS4? I've been considering that one because it's stubby and turned outward (won't melt turn signals once added, like the stock pipe). I just don't want it to be so loud that I get nabbed by the noise police (CO has the 96db requirement).


I just had to play with the maps until I found what worked for me. Especially after changing the exhaust.

The Yosh is great.
My wife says its almost silent when I pull up to the house. She said the bike was louder with the stock exhaust.

When you pull the spark arrester it barks when you chop the throttle but isn't too loud revved out.

I am leaving it out for now. It sounds really good.

My only concern is hitting the carbon fiber tip on a rock.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • rtheil

Posted September 05, 2014 - 10:19 AM

#67

I just had to play with the maps until I found what worked for me. Especially after changing the exhaust.

The Yosh is great.
My wife says its almost silent when I pull up to the house. She said the bike was louder with the stock exhaust.

When you pull the spark arrester it barks when you chop the throttle but isn't too loud revved out.

I am leaving it out for now. It sounds really good.

My only concern is hitting the carbon fiber tip on a rock.

 

Wow, quieter than stock? It's weird because sitting on the bike it seems so loud, but I was asking my son if he could hear me riding around the neighborhood while I was breaking in the motor, and he said he could only hear me when I drove by. I'm sure the stocker is capable of meeting the 96db limit, so I bet the yosh will be good enough. Can't take out the spark arrester, as that's an even bigger fine than violating the noise law. Is it a real carbon fiber tip, or just fake? That does make me wonder how it'd stand up if I did lay the bike down. Stuff happens...



  • revelc

Posted September 05, 2014 - 10:29 AM

#68

Wow, quieter than stock? It's weird because sitting on the bike it seems so loud, but I was asking my son if he could hear me riding around the neighborhood while I was breaking in the motor, and he said he could only hear me when I drove by. I'm sure the stocker is capable of meeting the 96db limit, so I bet the yosh will be good enough. Can't take out the spark arrester, as that's an even bigger fine than violating the noise law. Is it a real carbon fiber tip, or just fake? That does make me wonder how it'd stand up if I did lay the bike down. Stuff happens...


Sitting on it I can't tell the difference between stock and the Yosh until I open it up. It might be a little louder but not by much.

I don't have a DB meter to verify my wife's claims though about hearing me pull up to the house.

I think the Yosh and Q4 are the best bets for refined pipes.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • rtheil

Posted September 08, 2014 - 06:53 AM

#69

Sitting on it I can't tell the difference between stock and the Yosh until I open it up. It might be a little louder but not by much.

I don't have a DB meter to verify my wife's claims though about hearing me pull up to the house.

I think the Yosh and Q4 are the best bets for refined pipes.

 

That's good to know. I'm sure I'll end up running a full dB test based on the SAE J 1287 procedure (which is absolutely ridiculous) before and after, so that I can provide some sort of info since Yosh doesn't provide any noise ratings for it. I'll also probably yank out the restrictor in the stock pipe and run a test that way. Being in one of the few states with low-dB OHV noise laws, is a massive pain.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 08:03 AM

#70

FWIW, putting an 08 YZ exhaust cam in my bike (which has an FMF muffler) made a big difference in responsiveness, especially down low. 

 

You can read more about it in the 2012+ Cam thread.

http://www.thumperta...ade-info/page-7  My comments start on post #107, page 6.



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  • revelc

Posted September 08, 2014 - 08:08 AM

#71

FWIW, putting an 08 YZ exhaust cam in my bike (which has an FMF muffler) made a big difference in responsiveness, especially down low.

You can read more about it in the 2012+ Cam thread.
http://www.thumperta...ade-info/page-7 My comments start on post #107, page 6.


The title of this thread is about MAPPING CHANGE. Something you have no experience with. Please don't volunteer your unrelated information to threads.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 08:35 AM

#72

The title of this thread is about MAPPING CHANGE. Something you have no experience with. Please don't volunteer your unrelated information to threads.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

 

OP wants to loft the front tire.  08 YZ exhaust cam lets the rider loft the front tire anytime, right now.  Perfectly controllable with an instant response.  Fixes the heavy engine braking when you let off from lofting the front wheel too.  Makes the bike feel 20 pounds lighter and way less tiring to ride.

 

Map change is the wrong tool to fix these problems.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 08, 2014 - 08:37 AM.


  • William1

Posted September 08, 2014 - 08:44 AM

#73

Guys, you need to lighten up. Slightly off topic is not a big deal.

 

If any of you do not want to see someones posts, please use the 'ignore' feature. Do not compalin to the staff or belittle each other. Don't make me stop this car! ;)



  • revelc

Posted September 08, 2014 - 09:12 AM

#74

OP wants to loft the front tire. 08 YZ exhaust cam lets the rider loft the front tire anytime, right now. Perfectly controllable with an instant response. Fixes the heavy engine braking when you let off from lofting the front wheel too. Makes the bike feel 20 pounds lighter and way less tiring to ride.

Map change is the wrong tool to fix these problems.


Really?

I have stock gearing on my 12.
Only have slip on, race ECU, Aussie map, and short screw.
I can wheelie 4th without clutch. I have yet to find an obstacle it can't get the front wheel over. I'm also 210 pounds so take that into consideration.


You on the other hand have NO EXPERIENCE with the mapping by your own admission. So how you know it's the wrong tool baffles me.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 09:16 AM

#75

So how you know it's the wrong tool baffles me.

 

Do maps fix the obnoxious, heavy engine braking ?  Nope.  WRONG TOOL.   Does mapping help the engine breathe better ?  Nope. 

 

It costs $300 for an aftermarket exhaust.  It costs $75 to get a used YZ exhaust cam.   The tuner is over $250.  Cam plus exhaust is way more cost effective than cam plus tuner.  If you go exhaust plus tuner, you are still tuning a plugged up engine !   Let it breathe !

 

Consider this... once I get my cams sorted out I can then fine tune the engine with the tuner.   1 change at a time, grasshopper.   Get the big stuff right first, then fine tune.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 08, 2014 - 09:19 AM.


  • vlxjim

Posted September 08, 2014 - 09:28 AM

#76

Part of the problem is that your riding at 6500'. At 7000' you would lose about 30% of your power. The FMF map is the hardest hitting map. Is also one of the hot running maps. You could start with my vlxjim lean map but bump up the timing at the lower left corner by 1. My lean map was made for Big Bear at 7000'. I will say that the FMF map will pull the front up with my 200lbs ass on the seat in 1st, 2nd and 3rd no problem. But so does all of the vlxjim maps just a lot smoother. But at 7000' there is a big loss of hit.



  • revelc

Posted September 08, 2014 - 12:18 PM

#77

Do maps fix the obnoxious, heavy engine braking ? Nope. WRONG TOOL. Does mapping help the engine breathe better ? Nope.

It costs $300 for an aftermarket exhaust. It costs $75 to get a used YZ exhaust cam. The tuner is over $250. Cam plus exhaust is way more cost effective than cam plus tuner. If you go exhaust plus tuner, you are still tuning a plugged up engine ! Let it breathe !

Consider this... once I get my cams sorted out I can then fine tune the engine with the tuner. 1 change at a time, grasshopper. Get the big stuff right first, then fine tune.


How did we get to engine braking when this thread is about low end power tuning?

I hate to break it to you, but these engines are more complex than an air pump.

You can move all the air you want through an engine but without sufficient fuel and the proper timing you will never realize the full potential of the engine.

The first thing you do on a carb'd bike is rejet after you uncork it.

It doesn't matter how expensive parts are, you still have to do things in their respective order to really benefit from them. Just because a cam is cheaper doesn't mean it's the most bang for your buck.

You should fine tune after EVERY mod. Especially someone as meticulous as yourself.

My problem with you is that you jump at any opportunity to share things you have done with your bike on any new thread.

It's not all about you baby!

You even said the YZ can mellowed the bottom end out so why they hell are you advising OP to try it?


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 12:22 PM

#78

OK, you win.



  • GP1K

Posted September 11, 2014 - 12:37 PM

#79

OP wants to loft the front tire.  08 YZ exhaust cam lets the rider loft the front tire anytime, right now.  Perfectly controllable with an instant response.  Fixes the heavy engine braking when you let off from lofting the front wheel too.  Makes the bike feel 20 pounds lighter and way less tiring to ride.

 

Map change is the wrong tool to fix these problems.

Except you don't need cams for that at all. The bike wheelies effortlessly as it is.... if you know how to ride and not just trying to compensate with super short gearing. Map changes also reducing engine braking.... which you would know if you'd ever mapped your bike properly. Derp.

 

Yes, map change IS the right tool to fix these problems. You have NO frame of reference to make that kind of a statement, as you have no idea what mappng changes can do so STFU about it already.

 

Makes the bike 20 lbs lighter... bwahahahahahahahaha



  • Juman5

Posted September 13, 2014 - 08:41 PM

#80

I've only had my 2013 WR450F for about 3 months, coming off a KX450F.  I rode it with the Comp ECU, but made no changes for the first 2.5 months.

 

I just got my FI Diagnostic tool and finally got around to changing the CO level (local dealerships had no clue) and playing with the mapping.  It DOES make a big difference.  I was running pretty hot most of the time and found that it was a little twitchy at low RPM, causing me to have to be way more clutch attentive.  Now that I've gone to a different map, its not as twitchy and has a nice mid hit which I like.

 

It may not be everyones cup of tea, but the mapping changes can make significant differences in the bike.  Is it cheap?  Not really.  You're looking at about $300 for the comp ecu and the power tuner and my FI tool ended up being about $150.  But for me, the ability to change so quickly depending where and what I am riding on is worth it to me.

 

Keep the two wheels facing downward....






 
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