Mapping change for harder hit down low



126 replies to this topic
  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 02:32 PM

#41

When did I ever say it's 100% rider? I was just trying to prove a point to MLCG who seems to think there's a mod he can do to his bike to solve every riding problem, rather than look at improving his own skill set. I can't think of the last time I was on a trail trying to clear an obstacle or climb a hill or whatever and thought, 'gee if I only had YZ cams and more top end, I totally could make this'. No, I think 'Is there a better line than I chose? Was my body position correct? Did I execute correctly? Unless there is something glaringly wrong with the bike, I always assume the problem is me, not the bike.

 

You're contradicting yourself though... would you say an XR650L has 'acceptable suspension and power' to go fast on an MX track? I don't think most people would.... but that didn't stop Hot Sauce from toying with that guy on a VASTLY superior CRF450, did it? But I guess that's not a  clear enough example of rider > bike for you, so you had to further cherry pick and handicap Tedesco with a 50... a 50. Just the fact that you would suggest that further proves my point. Look how far down the ladder you have to go to make things even. A CRF450 against an CRF50. LOL

 

Sorry but if you think I'm gonna drive to clear to SD to climb some hills to try and settle some Internet pissing match you've got another think coming. Besides, what would that prove, exactly? Whoever climbs the hill fastest is right, and the other is wrong? Grow up. Real life doesn't work that way.

 

 

You need to install a reverse gear in the 250F... because you sure do a lot of back pedaling !



  • Jonesy11

Posted September 02, 2014 - 02:34 PM

#42

When did I ever say it's 100% rider? I was just trying to prove a point to MLCG who seems to think there's a mod he can do to his bike to solve every riding problem, rather than look at improving his own skill set. I can't think of the last time I was on a trail trying to clear an obstacle or climb a hill or whatever and thought, 'gee if I only had YZ cams and more top end, I totally could make this'. No, I think 'Is there a better line than I chose? Was my body position correct? Did I execute correctly? Unless there is something glaringly wrong with the bike, I always assume the problem is me, not the bike.

You're contradicting yourself though... would you say an XR650L has 'acceptable suspension and power' to go fast on an MX track? I don't think most people would.... but that didn't stop Hot Sauce from toying with that guy on a VASTLY superior CRF450, did it? But I guess that's not a clear enough example of rider > bike for you, so you had to further cherry pick and handicap Tedesco with a 50... a 50. Just the fact that you would suggest that further proves my point. Look how far down the ladder you have to go to make things even. A CRF450 against an CRF50. LOL

Sorry but if you think I'm gonna drive to clear to SD to climb some hills to try and settle some Internet pissing match you've got another think coming. Besides, what would that prove, exactly? Whoever climbs the hill fastest is right, and the other is wrong? Grow up. Real life doesn't work that way.

Ok so let's say a ttr 230 for Ivan. That's what u and I were talking about. And that 650 Ivan's on I'm sure had suspension done. It already makes enough power. Drive to SD I never asked you to drive anywhere. I'm in hesperia California. You said you come out the king of the hammers all I did was give you an invite.

I totally understand what your saying about the cam part totally. But then it was so if you can't do it no one can. That's what started this BS. you say I can't do it on a ttr because it's the rider. Right. When you said since I can't no one can. So I asked if the ttr is superior with a better rider I was wondering why all these hopped up motors at hill climbs. Never asked you to drive there to show me.

Edited by Jonesy11, September 02, 2014 - 02:45 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted September 02, 2014 - 02:38 PM

#43

If you need 12/51 gearing and a modded WR to get up hills, you ain't really a very good rider. Nuff said.

 

Come to WA some time and ride some of our trails/hills and see how you do, smartypants. Maybe I'll get one of my buddies to borrow a CRF/TTR 230 and ride circles around you all day long, and out climb you to boot. It ain't the bike, it's the rider. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.

 

Seat time > keyboard time.

 

Okay okay who's messing with 230's when a poor rider on a WR450 can't make the wall in Jawbone cyn. So. Cal.

 

230-250 Let's get it on.



  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 02:44 PM

#44

Ok so let's say a ttr 230 for Ivan. That's what u and I were talking about. And that 650 Ivan's on I'm sure had suspension done. It already makes enough power. Drive to SD I never asked you to drive anywhere. I'm in hesperia California. You said you come out the king of the hammers all I did was give you an invite.

 

No it didn't. Showroom stock except they put knobbies on vs the very street-oriented stock tires. Have you ridden a bone stock XRL? I have, they are very corked up and quite sleepy and mellow. It's not powerful, Ivan is just that good.

 

You mentioned Sturgis hill climb, no? Unless there's a Sturgis CA I'm unaware of, that's South Dakota. I don't even know what the king of hammers is, let alone attend it. I live/ride in Seattle area. So again, not driving 20 hours to SoCal to settle an internet pissing match.



  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 02:50 PM

#45

Okay okay who's messing with 230's when a poor rider on a WR450 can't make the wall in Jawbone cyn. So. Cal.

 

230-250 Let's get it on.

 

LOL Love it! I rest my case!

 

BBR offices aren't far from where I live, got their pipe etc on my 50... it's still only 50cc though.



  • Jonesy11

Posted September 02, 2014 - 02:52 PM

#46

No it didn't. Showroom stock except they put knobbies on vs the very street-oriented stock tires. Have you ridden a bone stock XRL? I have, they are very corked up and quite sleepy and mellow. It's not powerful, Ivan is just that good.

You mentioned Sturgis hill climb, no? Unless there's a Sturgis CA I'm unaware of, that's South Dakota. I don't even know what the king of hammers is, let alone attend it. I live/ride in Seattle area. So again, not driving 20 hours to SoCal to settle an internet pissing match.


Sorry got you and a different keyboard jockey mixed up. But anyways I refrinced sturgis hill climb bikes having gsxr motors. Never said drive there and participate. Any who. Peace out.

  • Jonesy11

Posted September 02, 2014 - 02:54 PM

#47

Okay okay who's messing with 230's when a poor rider on a WR450 can't make the wall in Jawbone cyn. So. Cal.

Sounds like your in my area. You ever ride in the high desert

230-250 Let's get it on.



  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 03:04 PM

#48

You need to install a reverse gear in the 250F... because you sure do a lot of back pedaling !

 

Really? Please point out any back pedaling, I'm not seeing it.

 

But keeping talking down about my 250F and proving my point even more. 'Real men' ride big bad modded 450s, right? And since you've got the big bad modded 450, you're in that crowd.  :rolleyes:



  • avlisj

Posted September 02, 2014 - 03:12 PM

#49

Anybody follow tough enduro rides. Erzburg,romaniacs. Can we agree gnarly trails. Big hills. Nobody's riding riding a 450 with "big hit down low".two strokes. Not very torquey. And all the top riders have trials backgrounds. Americans can't even keep up. Rider skills not bike

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 03:18 PM

#50

Really? Please point out any back pedaling, I'm not seeing it.

 

But keeping talking down about my 250F and proving my point even more. 'Real men' ride big bad modded 450s, right? And since you've got the big bad modded 450, you're in that crowd.  :rolleyes:

 

Do you realize you just insulted the entire forum of WR450F owners ?   Keep digging.

 

If your orange 250F is so great, sell your WR and get off this forum !  Why are you even in dirt threads being you DS'd your WR  ?


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 02, 2014 - 03:20 PM.


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  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 03:19 PM

#51

Anybody follow tough enduro rides. Erzburg,romaniacs. Can we agree gnarly trails. Big hills. Nobody's riding riding a 450 with "big hit down low".two strokes. Not very torquey. And all the top riders have trials backgrounds. Americans can't even keep up. Rider skills not bike

 

Yup most are on 300 2Ts... Walker, Jarvis, etc.

 

In Endurocross, Taddy switched from his 350 SX to a 250 SX this year. Lots of two-strokes, not so many 450s.


Do you realize you just insulted the entire forum of WR450F owners ?   Keep digging.

 

Nope that was aimed purely at you and you alone.



  • avlisj

Posted September 02, 2014 - 03:33 PM

#52

It's all about balance. Shifting your weight to maintain traction. And not loop out. Not saying I can do. I ride a 450. Just just makes a lot of shit easier.

  • avlisj

Posted September 02, 2014 - 03:42 PM

#53

Oh yea. Clutch skills and staying on the gas. All part of that maintaining traction stuff.

  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 03:47 PM

#54

Do you realize you just insulted the entire forum of WR450F owners ?   Keep digging.

 

If your orange 250F is so great, sell your WR and get off this forum !  Why are you even in dirt threads being you DS'd your WR  ?

 

Yeah my KTM 250 is great, thanks! Why would I sell my WR? It's a great bike.. just not so great for tight technical single track. And like I said before, I'd bet my DS rides are every bit as gnarly as your trail rides. I don't ride it on the street. I still haul it up the mountains, just not to ORV parks/trails. So technically it's not so much a dual sport as a plated dirt bike.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 04:07 PM

#55

GP1K... let me guess, you got beat up a lot in school ?

 

Do you plan to contribute anything significant to this forum, maybe start a thread or write an article or are you just going to hang around and profess your "knowledge" ?

 

As far as your vastly superior riding skills and 250F, they have forums for those topics and topics within those forums that don't start with "Mapping change for harder hit down low".  Maybe you want to discuss how great your riding skills and 250F are over there ?  I'm sure they would love to hear from you OVER THERE.

 

Got it ?  I knew you would understand.



  • revelc

Posted September 02, 2014 - 05:19 PM

#56

GP1K... let me guess, you got beat up a lot in school ?

Do you plan to contribute anything significant to this forum, maybe start a thread or write an article or are you just going to hang around and profess your "knowledge" ?

As far as your vastly superior riding skills and 250F, they have forums for those topics and topics within those forums that don't start with "Mapping change for harder hit down low". Maybe you want to discuss how great your riding skills and 250F are over there ? I'm sure they would love to hear from you OVER THERE.

Got it ? I knew you would understand.

First, thank you for being kind in regards to my CO causing problems. Nobody here should wish ill will on another riders bike.

Second of all...

Wow.

Coming from a 250 riding the same single track loop that they use(d) for one of the Texas State Enduro Championship events. The 450 is much harder to maneuver in the tight trails. I rode the same 22 mile track again and I almost fizzled out by the end.

His point is VERY valid about using a smaller bike on the trail.

Barnwell eats bikes and riders alike. There are no straightaways for 1,
1/2, or even 1/8th mile increments. It's all uphill, downhill, squeezes, hairpin turns, logs, roots, etc.

A 250 isn't necessarily an easy ride, it's just more forgiving when the going gets rough.

Don't forget your bike is a 250 frame with a 450 stuffed in it.

Nobody is trying to hold you back here. We just don't want anyone that isn't as educated to follow your advice.

OP wants more hit down low.
YZ cams and a lighter bike would NOT be the answer for OP.


If someone posts about needing 60HP out of their WR in a few years you may very well be the man they need to find on the forum.

In the meantime take a chill pill. Don't volunteer unproven, impractical, or inapplicable information and people won't razz you about it.

If you claimed you designed an engine that could run on atmospheric vacuum or static electricity with no evidence people would probably write you off as a crackpot.

Proof is all we require. No different than the scientific community. Do before and after dynographs for the cam swap. Meet up with another TT rider. Show us videos of trails you think your modded bike can make it up that ours cant. Something relatively quantifiable. Please.

But don't take it upon yourself to jump onto any post and misinform others with unproven and untested theories. It's as annoying for us that know what time has proven. The one thing that makes every professional rider faster is LOTS OF GAS. Followed of course by suspension and tuning.

I'm out after this. I need to spend more time with the family and riding this week.






2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

Edited by revelc, September 02, 2014 - 05:21 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 05:54 PM

#57

With all due respect, whether a 250 is better or worse for anything is not relevant in this thread.  The OP never asked about it, nor was rider skill ever in question.   The OP asked about getting more "kick" for lofting the front wheel.  That is it.

 

Second of all, cams were #5 on my list of things that could be done and were CLEARLY marked as untested.  There is no chance that such a statement would mislead anyone with basic reading skills.  The first 4 solutions I offered have all been tested on my bike, ridden by myself and others, and found to make a pretty big improvement in throttle response and "snap" for lack of a better word.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but I won't be dynoing anything, to prove anything to anyone.   These boards are about personal experience as well as scientific data and I'll be sharing my butt dyno and feelings just as a lot of other people are sharing theirs.

 

 

 

It's as annoying for us that know what time has proven.

  That is quite the attitude you have there, mister.  

 

So the 2012 WR is fuel injected and has a completely different head than any WR before it, and you "know" that the cams that are in it are optimal and that none of the literally 800 cam combinations available for it, in addition to various map manipulations will result in a better engine for various purposes ?  I find that very hard to believe. 

 

 

 

The one thing that makes every professional rider faster is LOTS OF GAS. Followed of course by suspension and tuning.

Where in this whole discussion did we EVER state that the objective was to go faster ?  That might be YOUR objective, but it may not be everyone's. 

 

Furthermore, most of us here are NOT professional riders.   And nor do we want to be, thank you very much.   Some of us ride for fun.  All we care about is having some grins, not getting injured and getting home in time for dinner.

 

Is a WR450F an optimal bike for our riding ?  WHO CARES !  Will cams or any other modification improve our lap times ?  WHO CARES ?  Can and will my riding improve ?  YES.   How good am I ?  WHO CARES ?   Do I enjoy riding my WR450F ?  YES !   Might cams or a bit more snap somewhere or a change here or there make it even more fun ?   YES, IT MIGHT.  Am I will to pay the price if they don't ?  YES, I AM.  Thus the journey continues with that in mind, be damned who thinks its right or not.

 

OPEN YOUR MIND.  ALLOW FOR POSSIBILITIES.  EXPERIMENT !   LEARN !   YOU DO NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS !


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 02, 2014 - 05:57 PM.


  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 06:15 PM

#58

GP1K... let me guess, you got beat up a lot in school ?

 

Do you plan to contribute anything significant to this forum, maybe start a thread or write an article or are you just going to hang around and profess your "knowledge" ?

 

As far as your vastly superior riding skills and 250F, they have forums for those topics and topics within those forums that don't start with "Mapping change for harder hit down low".  Maybe you want to discuss how great your riding skills and 250F are over there ?  I'm sure they would love to hear from you OVER THERE.

 

Got it ?  I knew you would understand.

 

Well you obviously can't refute anything I'm saying on a technical level, so you just resort to cheap personal shots. Classy.



  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 06:24 PM

#59

OPEN YOUR MIND.  ALLOW FOR POSSIBILITIES.  EXPERIMENT !   LEARN !   YOU DO NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS !

 

I've always found learning from the experience of others is better and more efficient than pissing in the wind of good advice and bullheadedly figuring it out on my own. Just sayin.



  • Nuklhed

Posted September 03, 2014 - 06:50 PM

#60

Even with my skinny-@$$ michelin AC10 front tire, I'll be able to steer back on topic.

 

I'm running VLXJim's maps.  I tried the first one...

3 4 4  0 0 0

3 5 3 -2-10

3 4 3 -2-2 0

 

Too much twitch on the bottom for me.  So, I skipped this one

 

More bottom hit

3 4 4  0 0 0

3 5 3 -1 0 0

3 4 3 -1-1 0

 

and went straight to this one...

 

Leaner better

2 3 3  0 0 0

2 4 2 -2-1 0

2 3 2 -2-2 0

 

I like this last one.  Not much bottom hit, but seems just fine.

 

From what I've read and what little I know riding this WR450, it seems quite happy when the motor's getting the cr@p flogged out of it.  My 2003 KTM 525 EXC was a down-low, grunt-producing pig.  I loved the low end power it had--never bogged unless I let it.  This WR450 doesn't have that low-end, mountain-moving grunt, but it has other qualities about it that I like, too.

 

If I didn't have to work on my KTM so dang much, I probably would've kept it.  However, I'm pleased with the WR450, especially since I can 'rejet' it in about 30 seconds.






 
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