Mapping change for harder hit down low

[GP1K]

If you think that my 12/51 gearing was installed for hills and would actually help, you don't understand hills and tight singletrack.

 

I can't believe all the jerkwads here that get their panties in a wad because people do things differently than they think they should be done.   Like there is only one way ?  What is this, 1984 ?  Lord of the Flies ?  Get a brain, think outside the box for once.   

 

I understand hills and tight single track way better than you do, buddy. You prove that in nearly every post you make. For starters, I know the RIDER makes way more difference than the bike, a concept you seem to struggle with. Do you need to watch that video of Ivan Tedesco on a XR650L toying with a CRF450 on a MX track again?

 

But do tell, why DID you gear your bike so low then, if not for climbing hills and such? The stupid reason you're putting YZ cams in is so you can 'hold 3rd gear on hill climbs and not have to downshift' right? Trying modulating your clutch instead, you'd be amazed at what it can do.

 

And your idea of 'thinking outside the box' is ignoring common sense and NOT tuning your FI, despite everyone and their brother telling you that's the first/best thing you can do for your bike. But oh no, you know better than all of them, FI does not need mapping at all, the bike needs YZ cams! That's not 'thinking outside the box' that's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I'll ask you the same very valid question I asked you before that you ignored: what are those cams going to do for you exactly? How is that going to make you any faster? You didn't answer because you can't, or won't admit the real answer: just because you want to. It won't make you faster, guaranteed. There is simply no way a newer rider like yourself even needs a STOCK 450, let alone a heavily modded one to go fast, especially in tight woods, or even truly handle that much power in the first place. Unless of course you're one in a million, some phenom rider that at middle age and with little experience, is better, faster, and quicker than men half his age that have been riding since they were in diapers. Yeah right.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd bet my left nut you'd be faster on a 250F than your 450, unless all you ride is groomed fire roads or wide open desert. Any kind of truly tight, technical terrain and a 250 is WAY easier to ride fast, unless you're a pro-caliber rider, and you're not.

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

I understand hills and tight single track way better than you do, buddy. You prove that in nearly every post you make. For starters, I know the RIDER makes way more difference than the bike, a concept you seem to struggle with. Do you need to watch that video of Ivan Tedesco on a XR650L toying with a CRF450 on a MX track again?

 

But do tell, why DID you gear your bike so low then, if not for climbing hills and such? The stupid reason you're putting YZ cams in is so you can 'hold 3rd gear on hill climbs and not have to downshift' right? Trying modulating your clutch instead, you'd be amazed at what it can do.

 

And your idea of 'thinking outside the box' is ignoring common sense and NOT tuning your FI, despite everyone and their brother telling you that's the first/best thing you can do for your bike. But oh no, you know better than all of them, FI does not need mapping at all, the bike needs YZ cams! That's not 'thinking outside the box' that's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I'll ask you the same very valid question I asked you before that you ignored: what are those cams going to do for you exactly? How is that going to make you any faster? You didn't answer because you can't, or won't admit the real answer: just because you want to. It won't make you faster, guaranteed. There is simply no way a newer rider like yourself even needs a STOCK 450, let alone a heavily modded one to go fast, especially in tight woods, or even truly handle that much power in the first place. Unless of course you're one in a million, some phenom rider that at middle age and with little experience, is better, faster, and quicker than men half his age that have been riding since they were in diapers. Yeah right.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd bet my left nut you'd be faster on a 250F than your 450, unless all you ride is groomed fire roads or wide open desert. Any kind of truly tight, technical terrain and a 250 is WAY easier to ride fast, unless you're a pro-caliber rider, and you're not.

 

 

Blah, blah, blah, blah.   I have never "met" someone who go so twisted about what someone else did.  Get a life !  Go ride your bike !  Why do you care what I do ?  Its none of your business.

Edited September 2, 2014 by MidlifeCrisisGuy

[Jonesy11]

If you need 12/51 gearing and a modded WR to get up hills, you ain't really a very good rider. Nuff said.

Come to WA some time and ride some of our trails/hills and see how you do, smartypants. Maybe I'll get one of my buddies to borrow a CRF/TTR 230 and ride circles around you all day long, and out climb you to boot. It ain't the bike, it's the rider. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.

Seat time > keyboard time.

I personally have taken my wife's ttr230 on a ride. (my bike was broken) I will tell you I don't care if you gotta turbo on a ttr you won't make it up some hills in my area. I've been riding for 25 yrs of my 28. There's just no way. Even if you gave graham jarvis on one he couldn't climb some of these hills.

[GP1K]

Blah, blah, blah, blah.   I have never "met" someone who go so twisted about what someone else did.  Get a life !  Go ride your bike !  Why do you care what I do ?  Its none of your business.

 

I care when you give bad advice to other riders who are here seeking tips/help. You would lead them down the wrong path out of your inexperience and 'theories' that don't hold water in the real world.

 

You can tinker with your bike all you want, turn it into an unrideable mess, just stop giving advice like you know what you're talking about, because YOU DON'T.

[GP1K]

I personally have taken my wife's ttr230 on a ride. (my bike was broken) I will tell you I don't care if you gotta turbo on a ttr you won't make it up some hills in my area. I've been riding for 25 yrs of my 28. There's just no way. Even if you gave graham jarvis on one he couldn't climb some of these hills.

 

Because YOU can't, nobody can, right? LOL Too bad Jarvis isn't game for such a challenge, it would be fun to see you eat your words.

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

I care when you give bad advice to other riders who are here seeking tips/help. You would lead them down the wrong path out of your inexperience and 'theories' that don't hold water in the real world.

 

You can tinker with your bike all you want, turn it into an unrideable mess, just stop giving advice like you know what you're talking about, because YOU DON'T.

 

So who are you, the self appointed Internet Police ?  We all have an opinion, buddy.  You seem to think that yours is the only one that matters.

 

Unrideable mess ?  20 pounds lighter, handles better and super responsive makes a bike unrideable ?  By who's standard ?  Yours ?  This coming from the guy who has relegated his WR to DS work and now rides a 250F ?

[revelc]

If you think that my 12/51 gearing was installed for hills and would actually help, you don't understand hills and tight singletrack.

I can't believe all the jerkwads here that get their panties in a wad because people do things differently than they think they should be done. Like there is only one way ? What is this, 1984 ? Lord of the Flies ? Get a brain, think outside the box for once.

Is it narcissism or ignorance that makes you feel the need to buck the system?

Are you implying the majority of riders out there are foolish for not gearing the piss out of their bikes, never experimenting with the programmer, and neglecting to install cams from a race oriented bike?

Are you the Moto-Mesiah?

You DID &%$#@! your bike up trying to install the YZ cams and you are in way over your head with the practical application of knowledge you've scrounged from reading.

You remind me of ASE Master Techs that had to ask me how to replace simple parts the fastest way. Book smart yet clueless how to do the day to day work.

2014 WRR R.I.Pieces

2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

[beezer]

MLCG likes to go riding and tinker with his bike.

 

Why that makes him a bad guy is beyond me.

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

Is it narcissism or ignorance that makes you feel the need to buck the system?

Are you implying the majority of riders out there are foolish for not gearing the piss out of their bikes, never experimenting with the programmer, and neglecting to install cams from a race oriented bike?

Are you the Moto-Mesiah?

You DID &%$#@! your bike up trying to install the YZ cams and you are in way over your head with the practical application of knowledge you've scrounged from reading.

You remind me of ASE Master Techs that had to ask me how to replace simple parts the fastest way. Book smart yet clueless how to do the day to day work.

 

I screwed something up ?  I don't think so.  I organized the best cam info table on the Internet and I installed a set of 08 YZ cams into a 2012+ WR450F.   Pretty sure I am the first to do it.   And thanks to being diligent and careful, I learned something, passed on information to others and have a great running bike.   Win, win, win and win !

 

You are another one that needs to take himself a little less seriously.   There is more than one way to do things, buddy.   We live in a free world.

 

"Buck the system" ???   Really, there is a system that must be followed ?  Who makes the rules ?  Do we get to vote ?

Edited September 2, 2014 by MidlifeCrisisGuy

[revelc]

Speaking of "the map fixes everything", how is your high RPM pop working ?

It went away after I removed the spark arrest. and rode it a little while.

It started popping at idle, dying, and hard starting on single track yesterday. There's nothing I can do about that part until I get a Yamaha FI tool hooked up to it.

2014 WRR R.I.Pieces

2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

It went away after I removed the spark arrest. and rode it a little while.

It started popping at idle, dying, and hard starting on single track yesterday. There's nothing I can do about that part until I get a Yamaha FI tool hooked up to it.

 

In spite of our differences I wish you luck with that issue.

[GP1K]

So who are you, the self appointed Internet Police ?  We all have an opinion, buddy.  You seem to think that yours is the only one that matters.

 

Unrideable mess ?  20 pounds lighter, handles better and super responsive makes a bike unrideable ?  By who's standard ?  Yours ?  This coming from the guy who has relegated his WR to DS work and now rides a 250F ?

 

Well when you have a whole bunch of people who's opinion it is that FI should be tuned first before cams, and then your opinion is cams are what ails the WR most, and FI tuning is unimportant, what does that say? Either everyone else is wrong and you're right, or... you're wrong. So it's not just my opinion here, is it?

 

Handles better than what? What's your frame of reference? Better than a 350 XCF? In your dreams. Better than stock? Maybe... maybe not. If you've approached your suspension tuning in the same fashion you've approached your engine tuning, who knows what it's like. Perhaps you've set it up like a GNCC/WORCS pro rider might, as that's where you're headed with your engine tuning. In which case, it's just slowing you down, not speeding you up.

 

'Super responsive' is only useful if you have the skill and speed to use it, and it's obvious just how you talk about riding you don't. Otherwise it's just slowing you down. It's a common malady though, lots of people suffer from it. If your bike is set up like the fast guys, then it will make you faster just like them... except it doesn't work that way at all.

 

You keep bringing up the fact that I went back to a 250, in a totally condescending tone, of course. You wanna know why I did that? Because I realized I made a mistake selling my 250X, and as fun as my WR is at times, it's absolutely the wrong tool for the job for where I ride 99% of the time. It's way more work to not go as fast. So rather spend a ton of time and money trying to make it into something its not, I spent that money on the right tool instead, and couldn't be happier.

 

And you know what else? I'd guess my DS rides can be just as gnarly as your trail rides. We don't leave from home, ride the freeway for an hour to putt around fire roads. We haul our bikes up to the mountains til we hit gravel, then head up and explore. We end up on 4x4 trails, double track, single track and everything in between. It's just not an ORV park with a staging area and designated trail system. You make it sound like I put my poor old WR out to pasture, when nothing could be further from the truth. My DS rides were getting too technical for my big old heavy DRZ, and I wasn't about to spend any more money on that bike. My WR was already all dialed in, all it needed was a DS kit and inspection/plate which I now I have. Now that bike is capable of handling anything I might throw at it, where my DRZ was not. So to me, it's a huge upgrade I can't wait to take advantage of.

 

BTW, where do you live? Not like your address, but where you ride. I'm really curious about where these super gnarly impossibly steep hills are that REQUIRE a heavily modded 450 with super duper low gearing to climb are exactly. Everest? Suribachi? I highly doubt you're hitting anything gnarlier than I am in WA mountains, so prove me wrong.

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

Well when you have a whole bunch of people who's opinion it is that FI should be tuned first before cams, and then your opinion is cams are what ails the WR most, and FI tuning is unimportant, what does that say? Either everyone else is wrong and you're right, or... you're wrong. So it's not just my opinion here, is it?

 

Handles better than what? What's your frame of reference? Better than a 350 XCF? In your dreams. Better than stock? Maybe... maybe not. If you've approached your suspension tuning in the same fashion you've approached your engine tuning, who knows what it's like. Perhaps you've set it up like a GNCC/WORCS pro rider might, as that's where you're headed with your engine tuning. In which case, it's just slowing you down, not speeding you up.

 

'Super responsive' is only useful if you have the skill and speed to use it, and it's obvious just how you talk about riding you don't. Otherwise it's just slowing you down. It's a common malady though, lots of people suffer from it. If your bike is set up like the fast guys, then it will make you faster just like them... except it doesn't work that way at all.

 

You keep bringing up the fact that I went back to a 250, in a totally condescending tone, of course. You wanna know why I did that? Because I realized I made a mistake selling my 250X, and as fun as my WR is at times, it's absolutely the wrong tool for the job for where I ride 99% of the time. It's way more work to not go as fast. So rather spend a ton of time and money trying to make it into something its not, I spent that money on the right tool instead, and couldn't be happier.

 

And you know what else? I'd guess my DS rides can be just as gnarly as your trail rides. We don't leave from home, ride the freeway for an hour to putt around fire roads. We haul our bikes up to the mountains til we hit gravel, then head up and explore. We end up on 4x4 trails, double track, single track and everything in between. It's just not an ORV park with a staging area and designated trail system. You make it sound like I put my poor old WR out to pasture, when nothing could be further from the truth. My DS rides were getting too technical for my big old heavy DRZ, and I wasn't about to spend any more money on that bike. My WR was already all dialed in, all it needed was a DS kit and inspection/plate which I now I have. Now that bike is capable of handling anything I might throw at it, where my DRZ was not. So to me, it's a huge upgrade I can't wait to take advantage of.

 

BTW, where do you live? Not like your address, but where you ride. I'm really curious about where these super gnarly impossibly steep hills are that REQUIRE a heavily modded 450 with super duper low gearing to climb are exactly. Everest? Suribachi? I highly doubt you're hitting anything gnarlier than I am in WA mountains, so prove me wrong.

 

 

GIVE IT UP !   BACK AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD !

[Jonesy11]

Because YOU can't, nobody can, right? LOL Too bad Jarvis isn't game for such a challenge, it would be fun to see you eat your words.

I wonder why hill climb bikes have gsxr and r1 motors in dirt bike frames. When graham could just do it on a ttr230. Maybe you should contact him and see if hill do the sturgis hill climb on a ttr. I'm sure he would make history

I'm out at every years KOH. i would love to meet up with you out there in feb and see your riding style. I have some really good squid detectors out there.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Jonesy11

[GP1K]

I wonder why hill climb bikes have gsxr and r1 motors in dirt bike frames. When graham could just do it on a ttr230. Maybe you should contact him and see if hill do the sturgis hill climb on a ttr. I'm sure he would make history

I'm out at every years KOH. i would love to meet up with you out there in feb and see your riding style. I have some really good squid detectors out there.

 

No thanks, my riding preferences are a lot more involved than just pointing my bike at the biggest hill I can find and pinning the throttle. But that tells me all about where you ride, which is a helluva lot different than where I ride. GSXR motored dirt bikes with swingarms longer than the rest of the bike wouldn't get 10 feet down the trails I ride, and are simply unheard of around here. That and I sold my GSXR1000 a few years back, so I don't have a proper motor to stuff in my bike.

 

But it's cute that you tried to cherry pick a specific example to try and prove me wrong, when anyone with half a brain knows I'm right... it's the rider, not the bike. So I'll just leave this here...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70jokjTaGT4

[GP1K]

I wonder why hill climb bikes have gsxr and r1 motors in dirt bike frames. When graham could just do it on a ttr230. Maybe you should contact him and see if hill do the sturgis hill climb on a ttr. I'm sure he would make history

I'm out at every years KOH. i would love to meet up with you out there in feb and see your riding style. I have some really good squid detectors out there.

 

Oh I almost forgot, is that the one where Jeremy McGrath showed up one time, having never done such an event, rode a borrowed bike, and spanked all the guys that do that shit 'professionally' all the time? That one?

[Jonesy11]

No thanks, my riding preferences are a lot more involved than just pointing my bike at the biggest hill I can find and pinning the throttle. But that tells me all about where you ride, which is a helluva lot different than where I ride. GSXR motored dirt bikes with swingarms longer than the rest of the bike wouldn't get 10 feet down the trails I ride, and are simply unheard of around here. That and I sold my GSXR1000 a few years back, so I don't have a proper motor to stuff in my bike.

But it's cute that you tried to cherry pick a specific example to try and prove me wrong, when anyone with half a brain knows I'm right... it's the rider, not the bike. So I'll just leave this here...

That's why I trolled your comments I hate when I hear it's all rider. I would say 90% rider 10% bike. As long as it has exceptable suspension and power. I have ridden for 25 yrs I ride huge hills,single track with cliffs on sides, open desert and everything in between. The tight single track with a ttr230 is great as long as there's not 3' whoops mixed in or huge hill climbs that you have to continually point and shoot. I don't know where you ride but like I said before LET'S RIDE FEBUARY. But like most on this site probably just one hell of a keyboard jockey.

If its 100% rider then let's see Ivan on a ttr50 against that crf

Edited September 2, 2014 by Jonesy11

[Jonesy11]

Oh I almost forgot, is that the one where Jeremy McGrath showed up one time, having never done such an event, rode a borrowed bike, and spanked all the guys that do that shit 'professionally' all the time? That one?

I dunno I don't fallow hill climbing. Just thought it would be awesome to see graham on a ttr. So since I'm not familiar with this instance your talking about. Did McGrath do it on a TTR230. If so I'm sure that's gotta be AMA hall of fame.

[GP1K]

That's why I trolled your comments I hate when I hear it's all rider. I would say 90% rider 10% bike. As long as it has exceptable suspension and power. I have ridden for 25 yrs I ride huge hills,single track with cliffs on sides, open desert and everything in between. The tight single track with a ttr230 is great as long as there's not 3' whoops mixed in or huge hill climbs that you have to continually point and shoot. I don't know where you ride but like I said before LET'S RIDE FEBUARY. But like most on this site probably just one hell of a keyboard jockey.

If its 100% rider then let's see Ivan on a ttr50 against that crf

 

When did I ever say it's 100% rider? I was just trying to prove a point to MLCG who seems to think there's a mod he can do to his bike to solve every riding problem, rather than look at improving his own skill set. I can't think of the last time I was on a trail trying to clear an obstacle or climb a hill or whatever and thought, 'gee if I only had YZ cams and more top end, I totally could make this'. No, I think 'Is there a better line than I chose? Was my body position correct? Did I execute correctly? Unless there is something glaringly wrong with the bike, I always assume the problem is me, not the bike.

 

You're contradicting yourself though... would you say an XR650L has 'acceptable suspension and power' to go fast on an MX track? I don't think most people would.... but that didn't stop Hot Sauce from toying with that guy on a VASTLY superior CRF450, did it? But I guess that's not a  clear enough example of rider > bike for you, so you had to further cherry pick and handicap Tedesco with a 50... a 50. Just the fact that you would suggest that further proves my point. Look how far down the ladder you have to go to make things even. A CRF450 against an CRF50. LOL

 

Sorry but if you think I'm gonna drive to clear to SD to climb some hills to try and settle some Internet pissing match you've got another think coming. Besides, what would that prove, exactly? Whoever climbs the hill fastest is right, and the other is wrong? Grow up. Real life doesn't work that way.

[GP1K]

I dunno I don't fallow hill climbing. Just thought it would be awesome to see graham on a ttr. So since I'm not familiar with this instance your talking about. Did McGrath do it on a TTR230. If so I'm sure that's gotta be AMA hall of fame.

 

I don't either, it was aired on Dirt Rider TV when that was on or something like that. Actually he did it on old Z50, and it is in fact in the AMA hall of fame, go check it out.

 

Point is, he just showed up to an event he's never done before, rode a bike he'd never thrown a leg over before, and proceeded to school the 'pros' that do it all the time. Rider > bike.