Mapping change for harder hit down low



126 replies to this topic
  • mr.deeds

Posted August 31, 2014 - 03:49 PM

#1

I'm looking for mapping numbers to give me a more aggressive hit down low. (which is weird because I keep reading how these new wr450's have a abrupt hit).  I know there are a ton of mapping threads- but I wasn't quite finding what I was looking for.

 

What I am finding- on rough mountain trails with rocks and trees- I have to turn my throttle a lot more than I want to be able to clear them or use them to clear the next tree.  Kind of a pain while standing. My bike has enough power- but its just to smooth and more on the upper end.  It's weird because my WR will out run my CRF450x- but the Honda hits better for jumping obstacles and picking up the front tire... not to mention it feels a lot faster.

 

So if any of you have a good map for a harder down low hit- but keeping the smooth mid and high- I would appreciate it.

 

13 WR 450- comp ecu (I've tried a few different maps but nothing I am happy with).  It has the stock muffler- with the bigger baffle, that could be some of my problem right there.  And other than a 2 tooth bigger rear sprocket it is stock.  And I'm riding from 6500ft up.

 

Thanks



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 31, 2014 - 04:10 PM

#2

I totally agree with your assessment of the WR's power.  I don't find the bottom end abrupt at all.   Its a big pussycat as far as I am concerned, but then I grew up riding 2 strokes before powervalves were invented.   I rode a KDX 250, which wasn't far off a KX250 as far as powerband was concerned.  

 

Here is what I've done to liven up my WR.

 

1) FMF exhaust system.  This helped.

 

2) Removed the starter clutch (and the starter).   The starter clutch weighs 1.34 pounds and it bolts directly to the flywheel.    Not all of it is spinning mass, but at least some is.   The bike feels a lot snappier without the starter clutch, though it still has excellent traction and lots of flywheel.

 

3) Dropped 22 pounds from the bike.

 

4) Geared 12/51.   You read the right.   This is the best thing you can do for these bikes in tight technical terrain.   At every speed the engine is running faster and 2nd gear is so much more usable and closer to first.   Makes blip wheelies so much easier, faster and reliable.

 

I'm always in search of improvement, so I have these ideas on the burner.

 

1) YZ cams.   I installed 08 YZ cams in my bike this week.  I'm riding it tomorrow.  I'll report back how they work out.

 

2) Lighter, aluminum clutch basket.  Reduces spinning mass, increases engine response.  Not cheap though.  

 

I'm really hoping the YZ cams liven it up.



  • revelc

Posted August 31, 2014 - 06:28 PM

#3

I totally agree with your assessment of the WR's power. I don't find the bottom end abrupt at all. Its a big pussycat as far as I am concerned, but then I grew up riding 2 strokes before powervalves were invented. I rode a KDX 250, which wasn't far off a KX250 as far as powerband was concerned.

Here is what I've done to liven up my WR.

1) FMF exhaust system. This helped.

2) Removed the starter clutch (and the starter). The starter clutch weighs 1.34 pounds and it bolts directly to the flywheel. Not all of it is spinning mass, but at least some is. The bike feels a lot snappier without the starter clutch, though it still has excellent traction and lots of flywheel.

3) Dropped 22 pounds from the bike.

4) Geared 12/51. You read the right. This is the best thing you can do for these bikes in tight technical terrain. At every speed the engine is running faster and 2nd gear is so much more usable and closer to first. Makes blip wheelies so much easier, faster and reliable.

I'm always in search of improvement, so I have these ideas on the burner.

1) YZ cams. I installed 08 YZ cams in my bike this week. I'm riding it tomorrow. I'll report back how they work out.

2) Lighter, aluminum clutch basket. Reduces spinning mass, increases engine response. Not cheap though.

I'm really hoping the YZ cams liven it up.


Gearing that high is a bandaid for poor clutching skills.

Buy a YZ if you consider removing 20 pounds from a bike.

Reducing spinning mass like you're suggesting will make the throttle snappier everywhere. Not just down low like OP requested.


Put a pipe on.
Play with your tuner.

I run a fattened up the Aussie map after I installed a Yosh. Hits hard low to mid. Easy power wheelies 1-3. Still need to get rid of the pop at high rpm.

Type of riding: Enduro with hill climbs, rocks, single track, two track, and technical stuff. This map has the best hit for my style of riding. YMMV.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • cubera

Posted August 31, 2014 - 07:14 PM

#4

Wow. I'm impressed with the WR motor in stock trim sans ECU and muffler. It runs as good as any modified 450F I've raced over the last 10 years.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 31, 2014 - 10:25 PM

#5

Gearing that high is a bandaid for poor clutching skills.
 

 

My vet expert friend, who rides really well and has many trophies, rode it for about 10 minutes and said gear it down.  With 12/51 it runs at the same speed as a KDX 220, when they are both idling in 1st, about 6MPH according to my GPS.

 

FWIW, KTM boys gear their 450 XC-W 12/52 and that bike has a lower 1st gear than our WRs do.

http://www.thumperta...er-with-500exc/

 

We ride tight, technical woods all day long.  Why wouldn't I gear it down ?


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 31, 2014 - 10:25 PM.


  • cracker please

Posted September 01, 2014 - 02:26 AM

#6

The modded map might be worth a try.

3 3 3   2 2 2

4 4 3   3 3 2

4 4 3   3 3 2

For use with modified

WR450F (YZ450F muffler)

Great for enduro racing



  • cracker please

Posted September 01, 2014 - 03:41 AM

#7

Gearing that high is a bandaid for poor clutching skills.

Or slipping the clutch is a bandaid for improper gearing.  :thinking:



  • revelc

Posted September 01, 2014 - 04:07 AM

#8

Or slipping the clutch is a bandaid for improper gearing. :thinking:


I have yet to find a situation that first gear can't handle. Sometimes I start off in second because first is so short.

On single track working the clutch is a part of the game. Sure you can idle around easier with a dinner plate gear in the rear but you handicap yourself with shorter gears, less top end, and don't learn how to manipulate the clutch.

I ride with a KDX200, an XR400R, and occasionally KTM300 riders. I keep up fine with stock gearing. First is still a very luggable gear.




2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 08:33 AM

#9

I'm looking for mapping numbers to give me a more aggressive hit down low. (which is weird because I keep reading how these new wr450's have a abrupt hit).  I know there are a ton of mapping threads- but I wasn't quite finding what I was looking for.

 

What I am finding- on rough mountain trails with rocks and trees- I have to turn my throttle a lot more than I want to be able to clear them or use them to clear the next tree.  Kind of a pain while standing. My bike has enough power- but its just to smooth and more on the upper end.  It's weird because my WR will out run my CRF450x- but the Honda hits better for jumping obstacles and picking up the front tire... not to mention it feels a lot faster.

 

So if any of you have a good map for a harder down low hit- but keeping the smooth mid and high- I would appreciate it.

 

13 WR 450- comp ecu (I've tried a few different maps but nothing I am happy with).  It has the stock muffler- with the bigger baffle, that could be some of my problem right there.  And other than a 2 tooth bigger rear sprocket it is stock.  And I'm riding from 6500ft up.

 

Thanks

 

The "FMF Map" is pretty good and lively and revs quickly, though there is the MX map that has more of a hit, not sure if that's exactly what you're after?

 

But yes your stock muffler is likely the culprit. Just pulling the baffle thingy is nowhere near what a free-flowing exhaust will do. FMF Q4 is great if you wanna be quiet, or 4.1 if you don't.

 

I'd say get a new muffler first then revisit the maps again.



  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 09:04 AM

#10

I totally agree with your assessment of the WR's power.  I don't find the bottom end abrupt at all.   Its a big pussycat as far as I am concerned, but then I grew up riding 2 strokes before powervalves were invented.   I rode a KDX 250, which wasn't far off a KX250 as far as powerband was concerned.  

 

Here is what I've done to liven up my WR.

 

1) FMF exhaust system.  This helped.

 

2) Removed the starter clutch (and the starter).   The starter clutch weighs 1.34 pounds and it bolts directly to the flywheel.    Not all of it is spinning mass, but at least some is.   The bike feels a lot snappier without the starter clutch, though it still has excellent traction and lots of flywheel.

 

3) Dropped 22 pounds from the bike.

 

4) Geared 12/51.   You read the right.   This is the best thing you can do for these bikes in tight technical terrain.   At every speed the engine is running faster and 2nd gear is so much more usable and closer to first.   Makes blip wheelies so much easier, faster and reliable.

 

I'm always in search of improvement, so I have these ideas on the burner.

 

1) YZ cams.   I installed 08 YZ cams in my bike this week.  I'm riding it tomorrow.  I'll report back how they work out.

 

2) Lighter, aluminum clutch basket.  Reduces spinning mass, increases engine response.  Not cheap though.  

 

I'm really hoping the YZ cams liven it up.

 

You should really stop giving out advice and just ride more. YZ cams before FI tuning is just crazy talk. Everyone knows it but you. I think deep down you know it too, but have far too much invested in your cam project to admit it.

 

12/51 gearing is just nuts. Stock is 13/50 and that's already fairly low gearing and pretty good. I went +1 in the rear for 13/51 and it's perfect for tight woods & mountains in WA. I rarely use 1st, and 2nd and/or 3rd will chug up anything you can throw at it. I ride most trails in 2nd or 3rd, 4th on some factor sections. If you think you can gear a bike down to where you never have to use the clutch, you're doing it wrong.

 

You should focus your search for improvement between the bars and seat/pegs, it will pay the most dividends by far.



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  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 09:15 AM

#11

You should really stop giving out advice and just ride more. YZ cams before FI tuning is just crazy talk. Everyone knows it but you. I think deep down you know it too, but have far too much invested in your cam project to admit it.

 

12/51 gearing is just nuts. Stock is 13/50 and that's already fairly low gearing and pretty good. I went +1 in the rear for 13/51 and it's perfect for tight woods & mountains in WA. I rarely use 1st, and 2nd and/or 3rd will chug up anything you can throw at it. I ride most trails in 2nd or 3rd, 4th on some factor sections. If you think you can gear a bike down to where you never have to use the clutch, you're doing it wrong.

 

You should focus your search for improvement between the bars and seat/pegs, it will pay the most dividends by far.

 

FYI, if you can chug up it in 3rd gear with a mostly stock WR with 13/51 gearing, it ain't really a hill.  I'd call that an incline.   'nuff said.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 02, 2014 - 09:15 AM.


  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 09:27 AM

#12

FYI, if you can chug up it in 3rd gear with a mostly stock WR with 13/51 gearing, it ain't really a hill.  I'd call that an incline.   'nuff said.

 

If you need 12/51 gearing and a modded WR to get up hills, you ain't really a very good rider. Nuff said.

 

Come to WA some time and ride some of our trails/hills and see how you do, smartypants. Maybe I'll get one of my buddies to borrow a CRF/TTR 230 and ride circles around you all day long, and out climb you to boot. It ain't the bike, it's the rider. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.

 

Seat time > keyboard time.



  • rwebb35

Posted September 02, 2014 - 10:30 AM

#13

I agree with GP1K. Back in the day before efi I put wr cams in my off-road yz's for riding and racing. On efi wr's and yz's you just tune to your liking with the tuner. Awesome!

  • revelc

Posted September 02, 2014 - 10:44 AM

#14

FYI, if you can chug up it in 3rd gear with a mostly stock WR with 13/51 gearing, it ain't really a hill. I'd call that an incline. 'nuff said.


It's really hard to chug up any kind of hill when your bike doesn't run.


How about you fix your perfectly good bike that you f---ed off before you try to give anyone else advice? Thanks


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 10:49 AM

#15

It's really hard to chug up any kind of hill when your bike doesn't run.


How about you fix your perfectly good bike that you f---ed off before you try to give anyone else advice? Thanks
 

 

Sorry, my bike isn't f--ed up.  It runs great.  Get your facts straight.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 02, 2014 - 10:56 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 10:55 AM

#16

If you need 12/51 gearing and a modded WR to get up hills, you ain't really a very good rider. Nuff said.

 

 

If you think that my 12/51 gearing was installed for hills and would actually help, you don't understand hills and tight singletrack.

 

I can't believe all the jerkwads here that get their panties in a wad because people do things differently than they think they should be done.   Like there is only one way ?  What is this, 1984 ?  Lord of the Flies ?  Get a brain, think outside the box for once.   



  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 10:56 AM

#17

Sorry, my bike isn't f--ed up.  It runs great.  Get your facts straight.

 

Oh really?  http://www.thumperta...gine-backwards/



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 10:57 AM

#18

I agree with GP1K. Back in the day before efi I put wr cams in my off-road yz's for riding and racing. On efi wr's and yz's you just tune to your liking with the tuner. Awesome!

 

Good for you  !  Want a Brownie cookie ?



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 10:59 AM

#19

 

Reading challenged ?

 

 


It purrs like an (angry) kitten with the stock intake cam and the 08 YZ exhaust cam.

 

It started on the 2nd kick, gotta love EFI.   No tapping or abnormal noises at all.  Its idling too fast.  I haven't ridden it yet.

 

I shut it off and restarted it about 5x.  It restarted on the first kick every time.  

 

It seems to kick easier with the (non eStart friendly) YZ exhaust cam.  It seems to rev freer too.

 

Maybe you missed that part ????


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 02, 2014 - 11:00 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 11:03 AM

#20


I run a fattened up the Aussie map after I installed a Yosh. Hits hard low to mid. Easy power wheelies 1-3. Still need to get rid of the pop at high rpm.

 

Speaking of "the map fixes everything", how is your high RPM pop working ?






 
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