want to buy a new 2013 yz450 or 2013 wr450, need advice


27 replies to this topic
  • DTM Industries

Posted August 23, 2014 - 08:31 PM

#1

So im thinking of selling my 06 yz450 and stepping to a new bike for once in my life . Im wondering what yamaha riders out there have had any problems or weird things about the new YZs or WRs 450s . I ride desert and go to the sand dunes religiously so the bike would get good skid plate/bark busters/supension set / sterring stabllizer and desert tank . Thats all the big mods i would asap and tires and exshust and mics parts after, so if anyone has and info on what would be best model wise and info on issues if any ( its a yamaha its perfict ) let me know.

Edited by DTM Industries, August 23, 2014 - 08:32 PM.


  • mikedabike

Posted August 23, 2014 - 09:40 PM

#2

The newer WR's are really nice.  Plus green sticker in California which the YZ is not.  That might come in to play depending on where you ride.

 

I think I would choose the WR if not a race or track bike. 



  • Navaho6

Posted August 24, 2014 - 05:45 PM

#3

Get a YZ.  I just sold a '13 WR450 and bought a 2009 YZ that was set up for woods.  The WR is too heavy for any kind of aggressive riding or racing.  You can do those things on a WR but at a slower pace.  Not as much fun.  The most I could trim off my WR was 10 lbs but I added back 7 lbs with offroad stuff.  My YZ that has 12 lbs of mods added on still weighs 20 lbs less than my lightened WR.



  • Jonesy11

Posted August 24, 2014 - 06:30 PM

#4

Get a YZ. I just sold a '13 WR450 and bought a 2009 YZ that was set up for woods. The WR is too heavy for any kind of aggressive riding or racing. You can do those things on a WR but at a slower pace. Not as much fun. The most I could trim off my WR was 10 lbs but I added back 7 lbs with offroad stuff. My YZ that has 12 lbs of mods added on still weighs 20 lbs less than my lightened WR.

20lbs but you lose the antifreeze catch tank,lose wide ratio tranny and I was able to run the baja designs squadron Xl and it's plug and play I dunno but for night races it's a must. And the ease of adding 3 gal ims tank. I dunno what there doing with the yz for extra fuel.

  • YamaLink

Posted August 25, 2014 - 06:00 AM

#5

Dunes religiously.....I'd weigh fuel range as a priority. Are you the type to take off for hours from the truck are is it more of a smaller riding area near the truck? Plus electric start is worth its weight in gold. Speaking of weight, as others have stated, it may be an issue for you. This is a tough call, but for my needs based on what you wrote I'd go with the YZ450.



  • fdme

Posted August 25, 2014 - 08:31 AM

#6

I feel like the wide range transmission is reason enough to go for a wr if possible... Yes it does weigh more but I feel like it's a worthy trade off.

  • cowboyona426

Posted August 25, 2014 - 09:33 AM

#7

Why is it KTM can build a reasonably light, well equipped off-road bike but the Japanese brands can't? KTM 500XCW is around 250 dry, the WR 450F is about 275 dry.  Granted the KTM is a ton more money but it still irritates me that Yamaha and Honda can't, or won't, build a capable and light off-road specific bike.  Kawasaki and Suzuki won't even try...

 

Anyhow, I can't speak for the YZ but I've ridden a 2013 WR 450F and it was a very nice bike, but a bit underpowered and heavy for my tastes.  You don't really notice the weight at most speeds, but in slower stuff you could feel it a little.  The one I rode had the GYT-R ECU and pipe on it, I was wanting a bit more snap like my 06 YZ has.  Being in the market myself right now, if I could find an EFI WR that had some mods already done I might consider it, but for what it costs to get the bike to where I would want it to be I'm leaning toward the KX 450F.  I've been on Yamaha's almost my entire life so it's hard for me to think about going green but for what I do I feel like the KX is the best choice.



  • HwyChile

Posted August 25, 2014 - 12:01 PM

#8

If you cannot test ride both, the next best thing is to sit on both at the dealer and lean them over to feel the weight.  For me the YZ is the only way to go.  The WR is way too heavy.  I don't need or want all the things on the WR that add weight, and that includes the electric start. 



  • Navaho6

Posted August 25, 2014 - 01:02 PM

#9

20lbs but you lose the antifreeze catch tank,lose wide ratio tranny and I was able to run the baja designs squadron Xl and it's plug and play I dunno but for night races it's a must. And the ease of adding 3 gal ims tank. I dunno what there doing with the yz for extra fuel.

 

You can add a coolant catch tank to the YZ.  I did that to mine last weekend.  Clarke makes a 2.8 gal tank for the '10 - '13 YZ.  Lighting is an issue as well as the tranny.   WR is more versatile but you pay for it in weight.


Edited by Navaho6, August 25, 2014 - 01:07 PM.


  • Navaho6

Posted August 25, 2014 - 01:13 PM

#10

You can lighten the WR but you'll have some work to do and removing the e-start would be the only way to get close to YZ weight.:  http://www.thumperta...pound-trim-off/

 

 

If you get the WR, read this before going to the dunes:

 

http://www.thumperta...motor-12-wr450/



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  • Navaho6

Posted August 25, 2014 - 01:29 PM

#11

Why is it KTM can build a reasonably light, well equipped off-road bike but the Japanese brands can't? KTM 500XCW is around 250 dry, the WR 450F is about 275 dry.  Granted the KTM is a ton more money but it still irritates me that Yamaha and Honda can't, or won't, build a capable and light off-road specific bike. 

 

New WR450 is 260 lbs dry, 273 wet in stock trim.   A lot of weight is in the muffler, battery, tires, and electronics.  I got mine down to about 263 wet while retaining the e-start.  Still too heavy.

 

Yamaha can make a lighter WR but they have decided against it.  I think affordability is the main reason.  The new WR uses a lot of parts that are the same on older models (to keep cost down).  Maybe that will change on the next design.


Edited by Navaho6, August 25, 2014 - 01:31 PM.


  • cowboyona426

Posted August 25, 2014 - 02:16 PM

#12

New WR450 is 260 lbs dry, 273 wet in stock trim. .

 

Still awful dang heavy... its just disappointing to me that the Japanese manufacturers let KTM run away with the market for those of us who prefer single track to triple jumps.  I'd be willing to wager that if there was a red, yellow, blue or green 450 that was somewhat close to a KTM in features and weight (which would probably also put them around the same sticker price unfortunately) that the bikes would sell really well. 



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 25, 2014 - 08:34 PM

#13

Yamaha doesn't build the bike you want.  Fortunately they have lots of good parts on the shelf for you to build it yourself.

 

Its best to think of the WR as a 2010 YZ250F chassis with a detuned 2009 YZ450F engine and a wide ratio transmission that Yamaha then hung of bunch of heavy stuff on.

 

If you start with the WR, its pretty easy to lop off 20 pounds.  http://www.thumperta...pound-trim-off/  That gets it down to sub 240 pounds without fuel, but its got no eStart and no kickstand.   As far as power on teh WR goes, its easy to swap in a YZ cam and that should put you at 50+ , easily controlled HP.   The WR FI works just like the YZ FI, only the engine is starting from a tamer starting point.

 

FWIW, the KTM 450EXC weighs about 244 pounds without fuel, but it has an eStart.  The 2014 YZ450F is listed as 245 lbs full of fuel, so that puts it at about 235 without fuel, with no skid plate.  The weight difference between these bikes and a lightened WR450F is negligible.  Of the three, the YZ450F has the most raw potential.

 

If you start with the YZ you are limited by the close ratio transmission and you might need to detune the power a lot, depending on your riding style. 

 

Many, many of the parts swap directly between YZ and WRs, with subtle differences.  Forks, triple clamps, exhaust, pegs and peg mounts, cams, shocks, tires, even frames.  So you can make your WR as YZ as you want or make your YZ as WR as you like.

 

As far as suspension goes, its about the same for both.  The WR uses the old style Yamaha swing arm and linkage and the YZ250F shock with different damping.  The YZ uses all newer stuff and the YZ wheels have the bigger 22(?)mm axles.  The WR forks have less travel and they are damped differently, but probably more livable for trail riding than the YZ.  Both will need a revalve sooner or later and its equally hard or easy to do so.  

 

Neither the YZ nor the WR have a fan.  Both probably need it.  The WR has larger radiators.   WRs run hotter because of a very restrictive exhaust cam, but that is easily changed.

 

The YZ has a smaller fuel tank, but the WR's isn't that big either.

 

FWIW, the WR is an excellent kick starting bike.  2 kicks cold, 1 kick hot, and it kicks pretty easy too.

 

Pick your poison. 

 

For me it came down to price.  I found a hardly used WR450F with the competition ECU for a bit over $5000.  How could I pass that up ?

 

FWIW, I love my WR450F.  Excellent power, reliable, really good off road suspension for a stock bike.

 

Hope this helps.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 25, 2014 - 08:48 PM.


  • cowboyona426

Posted August 26, 2014 - 06:25 AM

#14

I'm well aware of what the WR is, but it's still plain STUPID that Yamaha expects us to buy a WR (list price 9k) and then buy the GYTR ECU ($100), tuner ($200), exhaust ($300) and if you want it to run like a 450 ought to cams ($600 for the GYT-R cams that require a $250 piston according to Yamaha, or buy OEM 06ish YZ cams for around $300) just to have a capable off-road bike.  That's an extra $1k plus on top of sticker price, when you can stroll into a KTM dealer and plunk down $9700 for a 450 XCW or $9900 for a 500 XCW and be done.  Not to mention the KTM has e-start WITHOUT the weight penalty that the WR has.  You made a point that you can get the WR down to KTM-ish weights but then you lose the E-start... and if you did all the mods to open it up you now essentially have a $10K YZ that is still a bit overweight but will power a head light.  If I'm going to spend the money on an off-road bike with e-start, I'm not going to strip all that off AND my kickstand just to get my bike into the weight range that it should be on the showroom floor.

It would be so nice to see Yamaha step up and give KTM a run for their money with the WR but I don't see it ever happening.  Every bike I owned growing up excluding one was a Yamaha and I consider myself to bleed Yamaha blue (although I do have a good whack of Honda's in the garage now) but the sad truth is that for the riding I like to do (trails) there are better bikes to be had than a YZ or WR.  I'm still allergic to the orange kool-aid which is why I'm strongly considering finding a lightly used 2012 KX450 for my next bike.

 

 

 

Yamaha doesn't build the bike you want.  Fortunately they have lots of good parts on the shelf for you to build it yourself.

 

Its best to think of the WR as a 2010 YZ250F chassis with a detuned 2009 YZ450F engine and a wide ratio transmission that Yamaha then hung of bunch of heavy stuff on.

 



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 26, 2014 - 08:11 AM

#15

I don't have anywhere near that kind of money in my bike.   First off it came with the competition ECU installed.  I think a lot of people buy these bikes thinking they will be an old world thumper, like the XRs were and then find out that its more bike, power and weight wise, than what they can handle.   Thus there is a pretty good chance you can pick one up used.  Even if you don't, they are regularly for sale new in the $6-$7K range.

 

I did put on the muffler and bought the GYTR tuner, but I would have put a muffler on a KTM and many KTM owners are putting obscure tuning boxes and widgets on their bikes to get them running better fuel wise.   Me, I'd much rather have a GYTR tuner type setup than have to monkey with 3rd party black magic widgets to get my bike to run properly.

 

As far as the cams go, here is where Yamaha shines, because there are a plethora of YZ and WR cams to boost the WR's power.  I bought a set of pristine YZ cams for $150, but it looks like the good ole YZ timing trick of retarding the exhaust cam will do wonders on the 2012+ WRs as it did on the old ones.

 

The things you get with the Yamaha that you don't with the KTM is reliability, better relative resale valve years down the road, a totally bulletproof engine and better, more flexible, less quirky suspension.

 

Pick your poison.  For me, I don't mind tinkering with a bike, but I hate having to fix a broken bike.  It was very fast and easy to lop the 20 pounds from my bike and I have many, many routes for inexpensive upgrades in the future.

 

The KX450 is an appealing bike, but you are back to MX (air fork ?) suspension, MX gearbox, no protection and a small fuel tank.  And no potential for eStart.  The thing about starting with a YZ is that the WR gearset is available.  What gearset is available for the KX ?

 

I agree its a crying shame that Yamaha doesn't build the bike we want, especially when they essentially have all the parts on the shelf.   I emailed my local factory rep and tried to explain this, but he doesn't get it.   One problem I see Yamaha having is that their product line is wide (street, dirt, quads, snowmobiles, etc.) and they aren't good at hearing what the dirt segment is saying.   They "get" MX, but they don't get off road.  If you look closely at the WR, although Yamaha US calls it an enduro bike, it close to being a DS bike in a lot of markets.  They are trying to do too much with one single design.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 26, 2014 - 08:14 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 26, 2014 - 11:20 AM

#16

One other thing, not sure if its significant... the WR engine has a longer stroke, 95mm versus 90mm.  Its also pretty stall resistant, so you don't have to deal with things like this.

http://www.thumperta...event-stalling/

 

However, Yamaha isn't the only one to make bikes that stall.  Many KTM450XC owners add flywheel weights and fudge with various things to improve stall resistance. 



  • shrubitup

Posted August 26, 2014 - 11:35 AM

#17

YZ250

  • 080

Posted August 27, 2014 - 05:34 AM

#18

With both bikes on a scale, gas being equal at 2gal, there is 12lbs difference between the ktm/yami. I use to ride a yz450 nicely set up for offroad and though I feel a little bit of a weight difference in corners/down hills the wr hands down handles the single track I ride better and its around 30lbs heavier than the yz. Weight isn't always a negative, just depends on the situation.

  • cowboyona426

Posted August 27, 2014 - 03:48 PM

#19

The KX450 is an appealing bike, but you are back to MX (air fork ?) suspension, MX gearbox, no protection and a small fuel tank.  And no potential for eStart.  The thing about starting with a YZ is that the WR gearset is available.  What gearset is available for the KX ?

 

I've been looking at the 2012 KX, first year of the easily swapped plugs for different power levels and last year of the conventional front suspension.  Having made 2  YZ's trail bikes I don't much care if I have to buy a few things like a tank and a skid plate, You can re-gear the chain drive to get good gearing, and I don't give a hoot about E-start.



  • Jim813

Posted August 27, 2014 - 07:28 PM

#20

I've got a buddy with a 13' wr he is selling. He came off of a 2009 yz450 and a 2007 yz250. He is a solid A rider and is looking for something lighter. It's a nice trail bike but for significant racing, the yz is the way to go.





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