2012+ WR450F Camshaft Upgrade Info.



187 replies to this topic
  • Jonesy11

Posted September 09, 2014 - 06:09 AM


Wow this thread is still going. Bickering over maps. Dude I put the gytr head,cam. It ran like shit with the fmf map I had changed it to gytr head map. Bike rips. Don't understand why one would put 08 exaust cams. Without ever remapping. Crazy in my opinion. Takes 2 minutes. And done. Just try it. Hopefully it stops all the bickering.

  • stevethe

Posted September 09, 2014 - 06:12 AM


Wow this thread is still going. Bickering over maps. Dude I put the gytr head,cam. It ran like shit with the fmf map I had changed it to gytr head map. Bike rips. Don't understand why one would put 08 exaust cams. Without ever remapping. Crazy in my opinion. Takes 2 minutes. And done. Just try it. Hopefully it stops all the bickering.

 

Nice that somebody puts some full matched parts in and remaps to suit.



  • cracker please

Posted September 09, 2014 - 06:27 AM


So you could just let the MAP sensor hang in the atmosphere and plug the hole and it would have no effect on performance?

 

 

Absolutely not.  The ECU uses it to determine air flow.   The engine wouldn't run at all.

 

The manual seems to indicate that it would start and run but would throw a code.

Dude I put the gytr head,cam. It ran like shit with the fmf map I had changed it to gytr head map. Bike rips.

 

 

They're also the exact same map, interestingly enough.

 

Do they give you a different GYTR head map than the one on the power tuner website?  Or you trollin', bro?



  • Jonesy11

Posted September 09, 2014 - 06:41 AM


[quote name="cracker please" post="11872785" timestamp="


Do they give you a different GYTR head map than the one on the power tuner website? Or you trollin', bro?[/quote]

Came with a map that's just a little different then the gytr map that's on the paper you get with the tuner.

Why not remap. It just doesn't make sence to me. It takes 2 minutes. The cam swap took way longer then that. And the gains would prob be equal. It's lean at all 0000000. lean pops with barley any engine braking.

  • KennyMc

Posted September 09, 2014 - 07:53 AM


Came with a map that's just a little different then the gytr map that's on the paper you get with the tuner.

Why not remap. It just doesn't make sence to me. It takes 2 minutes. The cam swap took way longer then that. And the gains would prob be equal. It's lean at all 0000000. lean pops with barley any engine braking.

Because he is right and everyone else is wrong. Come on, keep up with the conversation already :lol: A quick call to the AMA tuner that a dealer (who tunes for some racers) :devil: uses would help him understand but it might not make it to that particular spot in the brain.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 09, 2014 - 08:50 AM


Whatever.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 09, 2014 - 09:07 AM


Wow this thread is still going. Bickering over maps. Dude I put the gytr head,cam. It ran like shit with the fmf map I had changed it to gytr head map. Bike rips.

 

Yeah, I can see there is huge difference in the tuning for the GYTR head.  Oh, wait, its the same as the map for the FMF exhaust system ! 

 

GYTR ported head map.jpg

 

Source: https://www.yamahapa...-tuner?b=Search

 

Apparently the GYTR ported head hardly fools the ECU's air measurement at all !  You are full of you know what saying that it ran terrible.   I agree it probably didn't run perfect, but it wasn't far off.  If it was a long ways off the map numbers would be a lot larger than they are for just an exhaust change.

 

Conclusion: the Yamaha EFI system does a really good job of calculating air flow even when one does a head swap.  Impressive !

 

Thanks for providing another data point on this topic.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 09, 2014 - 09:24 AM


I'll put my cam solution up against the GYTR tuner solution for tight woods any day of the week.  Make it leaner and retard the ignition ?  NO THANKS !  Decreasing the obnoxious engine braking and letting it breathe are the right way to solve that problem.

 

Woods map.jpg

 

When all you got is a hammer (tuner), sometimes all the world looks like a nail.

 

 

 

 



  • revelc

Posted September 09, 2014 - 10:40 AM


I'll put my cam solution up against the GYTR tuner solution for tight woods any day of the week. Make it leaner and retard the ignition ? NO THANKS ! Decreasing the obnoxious engine braking and letting it breathe are the right way to solve that problem.

attachicon.gifWoods map.jpg

When all you got is a hammer (tuner), sometimes all the world looks like a nail.


Hey man. Just wanted to apologize to you. At the beginning of your thread you said you didn't want this turned into a debate. I didn't honor that.

I also want to apologize for flaming you and calling you names. It was really immature and reactionary of me.

I wish you all the best in your future riding endeavors. Sorry again for stepping out of line and being hateful. Your just a guy trying to enjoy his hobby in his own way. You are definitely entitled to do that.

Be sure to post some riding videos sometime! Hope you have a great day man.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • Jonesy11

Posted September 09, 2014 - 11:50 AM


I'll put my cam solution up against the GYTR tuner solution for tight woods any day of the week. Make it leaner and retard the ignition ? NO THANKS ! Decreasing the obnoxious engine braking and letting it breathe are the right way to solve that problem.

Woods map.jpg

When all you got is a hammer (tuner), sometimes all the world looks like a nail.


After all the talk it shows me I need to only visit the california regional section. Whenever I get into a debate about what's better/faster. In my local thread.(California). We just meet up and ride. And see who's better/faster/ and SLOWEST. I sit here and debate with someone I'll never meet guy could be 500 lbs and just tweaks on his bike cuz he's to big to ride or leave the couch. I know I'm good my bike rips and that's it. If your ever out in SoCal. Hit me up would like to ride and see if your all 0000 with cam has a chance. ANYTIME. Other then that have a great riding season.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Jonesy11

Posted September 09, 2014 - 11:54 AM


I'll put my cam solution up against the GYTR tuner solution for tight woods any day of the week. Make it leaner and retard the ignition ? NO THANKS ! Decreasing the obnoxious engine braking and letting it breathe are the right way to solve that problem.

Woods map.jpg

When all you got is a hammer (tuner), sometimes all the world looks like a nail.



And real quick before I leave your "what if". that map is not the one that came with my gytr head,cams. Sooooooo I dunno what that's about.

  • beezer

Posted September 09, 2014 - 12:24 PM


After all the talk it shows me I need to only visit the california regional section. Whenever I get into a debate about what's better/faster. In my local thread.(California). We just meet up and ride. And see who's better/faster/ and SLOWEST. I sit here and debate with someone I'll never meet guy could be 500 lbs and just tweaks on his bike cuz he's to big to ride or leave the couch. I know I'm good my bike rips and that's it. If your ever out in SoCal. Hit me up would like to ride and see if your all 0000 with cam has a chance. ANYTIME. Other then that have a great riding season.

 

I've seen it.  A guy came all the way from Arizona to ride here and was the worst rider I've ever seen.  But on the internet he was the best ever.



  • Jonesy11

Posted September 09, 2014 - 12:33 PM


I've seen it. A guy came all the way from Arizona to ride here and was the worst rider I've ever seen. But on the internet he was the best ever.


Lol exactly. I love bringing keyboard pros up on the mountains near me. We shoot ahead and watch from the peak. The best is when they come with a bike with not 1 scratch. I love those days.

  • beezer

Posted September 09, 2014 - 01:01 PM


It's cruel to do that.

 

But lots of fun.



  • cubera

Posted September 09, 2014 - 01:25 PM


I'll report when I do it, but I don't think I'm riding next weekend.

 

What would be really interesting is if you need to port the head on these things.  I would have tried cams first.

Don't really need to do anything because the motor continues to impress. But when I have it apart I'm sending the head off for professional work which will 'probably' include porting. It's then that I might change cams but I'll have to see what the builder recommends. The WR rivals even heavily modified 450F's I've had in the past and runs as good as the best running OEM one which was an '07 CRF450R respectfully dubbed "animal". The WR is more useable and user friendly than animal, however.



  • revelc

Posted September 09, 2014 - 01:29 PM


It's cruel to do that.

But lots of fun.

How do you think I'd do?


This is a clip of the 22 mile advanced/hard
single track loop at Barnwell Mountian. I've only been riding since January so I know I'm not all that great yet. Pointers are welcome.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

Edited by revelc, September 09, 2014 - 07:32 PM.


  • cubera

Posted September 09, 2014 - 06:33 PM


Fast guys should only be talking smack to each other. I don't talk smack maybe because it took me 5 years to earn my way to the B class. :lol:  :ride: 



  • beezer

Posted September 10, 2014 - 05:10 AM


How do you think I'd do?


This is a clip of the 22 mile advanced/hard
single track loop at Barnwell Mountian. I've only been riding since January so I know I'm not all that great yet. Pointers are welcome.

 

 

I'm sure you'd do just fine.

 

I like the "yet" in your comment!

 

Lots of seat time will get you there.



  • GP1K

Posted September 10, 2014 - 08:46 AM


 

FWIW, people make a point to say that the WR450F needs to be uncorked for optimal performance.  They go on to list removing the throttle stop screw, installing the competition ECU and an aftermarket exhaust system.  What those people don't realize is that the WR450F exhaust cam is part of the restrictive system and it too needs to be addressed to get the full potential from the engine.  While map changes can affect how the engine runs, no map change is going to affect how the engine breathes and it turns out that changing how it breathes makes a huge difference in its character.

 

At the start of this thread certain people jumped all over the notion that changing the cams in a 2012 WR450F could do anything to improve it, especially in a tight woods situation.  After all, who needs more power than what a WR450F has ?

 

It turns out that there is way more to a cam swap than peak power.  It affects every aspect of the engine's character.  Engine braking, overheating, throttle response, both part and full throttle, lugging ability, over rev, peak power, etc. 

 

I'm very happy to say that installing an 08 YZ cam improves the entire character of the engine, especially for woods riding.  I verified this yesterday first hand by completing our usual 20 mile test ride way, way faster than I ever have, while using way less energy than I ever have before.  I'm usually pretty tired at the end of the 20 miles.   Yesterday I was ready to ride a second lap.  If that doesn't verify that the 08 YZ exhaust cam makes the WR450F a better bike for tight woods, I don't know what does. 

 

I also lost my buddy riding a KTM 200XC twice.  Usually we are the same speed.

 

I think the biggest change was in snotty and really technical conditions.   The bike is so much easier to control.

 

No, the exhaust cam is NOT part of the 'restrictive system' at all. You don't know what you're talking about, period. It does not *need* to be addressed at all, but FI mapping most certainly does. You just don't get it, you don't understand how the WR's FI system works (despite many people telling you exactly how it works) and your posts clearly indicate that. Just quit while you're behind already.

 

You know what else affects every aspect of the engine's character? FI mapping! You would know this if you ever bothered changing your mapping.. .but you won't cuz you have it all figured out with the cams, right? Derp.

 

New cams will instantly make you faster than your buddy?  Yeah right. You really honestly believe that? What a joke, Just further proves how clueless you are, and how fixated you are on bike being more important than rider. You couldn't be more wrong, and just keep on proving it over and over again.



  • GP1K

Posted September 10, 2014 - 08:52 AM


As my bike has CLEARLY demonstrated, that is NOT the way it is with Yamaha EFI.  Between the FMF muffler and now the exhaust cam, I am sure my engine flows 20% more air.   I haven't touched the map and mixture wise it runs the same, 32 to 90F, 2000 to 8,00 feet.  Try that with a carburetor.


 

 

Absolutely not.  The ECU uses it to determine air flow.   The engine wouldn't run at all.

 

As you have CLEARLY demonstrated, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, and your logical leaps are hilarious. Correlation =/ causation. You haven't demonstrated anything other your ignorance of how the FI system works. IT'S NOT LIKE A CAR!!!

 

Your 'proof' is the way you *think* you bike feels, not any actual empirical evidence. Got any measurement of ridiculous "20% more air flow" claim? No, of course you don't.

 

Tell you what, I'll bet you $1000 cold hard cash you are dead wrong about the FI system. If it really is as sophisticated as a car's system, then PROVE it or STFU. Post up schematics and part numbers of all the sensors on the WR that make that happen. You can't, because they don't exist. So... I lose, you get $1000.... I win, you don't pay anything, you just STFU and stop posting your asinine theories as 'advice'. Start a blog or something stop posting your misinformed ignorant opinions on things you clearly know nothing about. Deal?






 
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