2012+ WR450F Camshaft Upgrade Info.



187 replies to this topic
  • KennyMc

Posted September 08, 2014 - 04:16 PM


Anytime you make an adjustment (add a exhaust), there is a new map to be down-loaded for the KTM's. This is true for any performance add on and the dealers have the map codes.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 04:41 PM


Anytime you make an adjustment (add a exhaust), there is a new map to be down-loaded for the KTM's. This is true for any performance add on and the dealers have the map codes.

 

As my bike has CLEARLY demonstrated, that is NOT the way it is with Yamaha EFI.  Between the FMF muffler and now the exhaust cam, I am sure my engine flows 20% more air.   I haven't touched the map and mixture wise it runs the same, 32 to 90F, 2000 to 8,00 feet.  Try that with a carburetor.


So you could just let the MAP sensor hang in the atmosphere and plug the hole and it would have no effect on performance?

 

Absolutely not.  The ECU uses it to determine air flow.   The engine wouldn't run at all.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 08, 2014 - 09:18 PM.


  • RockerYZWR

Posted September 08, 2014 - 05:34 PM


This advice is absolutely true.....and absolutely wrong as well.

 

If you do not have enough skill to ride better than your buddy, more power and better handling can ( not will, but can) help you.

 

The bottom line is, LEARN HOW TO RIDE, not how to read specs and shop. 

Consider every ride a practice session, and  improve your skills with every ride.

 

It depends.  There are a couple of ways to look at it.  If someone's a fast, experienced rider, they're most likely going to be fast on anything -- within reason, and apples to apples, i.e., we're not talking Pro-Am dude on a PW80 vs. average dude on a YZ450 (as previously brought up somewhere in here recently).  But we are possibly talking about Pro-Am dude on a YZ125 vs. average dude on a YZ450 -- it also depends on the terrain and limitations of the actual bike (i.e., top speed in open terrain).  Or Pro-Am dude vs. average dude, both on PW80s - Pro-Am dude wins every time.

 

As an example, this past winter and spring, I rode a lot with a couple of buddies on quads, one of whom is a fast B motocross rider (who inexplicably got a quad).  I was on another friend's KTM 350 XC-F one day and this guy was on my WR, which he'd never ridden and still had the stock forks (gold-valved, baby).  I crashed trying to keep up with him (I'd lost sight of him after about 15 seconds anyway -- no damage to my other friend's KTM).

 

On the other hand, when I go from my WR450 to my YZ250, I am faster and better at everything instantly.  Now I have become a better rider compared to this past spring (even compared to last week), and the other part of the story is that the YZ suspension has had some work done on it by Factory Connection, but with a much lighter bike of similar power (albeit a totally different power delivery) with good suspension, it's just much easier to do everything on.  I can slide the thing through turns like it's my job - it's more difficult (for me) to be as consistent on the WR; I can jump and control the bike in the air more easily (of course); I can hit the deep whoops a lot faster and not get anywhere near as tired (side note: 3 mile sand track that wears me out after only one or two laps on the WR, I can do five with the same energy output and almost a minute faster each lap on the 250); and I can correct a line mid-turn and still keep the speed up without unsettling the chassis and suspension and wasting energy.  You steer it where you want to go, it goes there with not much drama.  That's all of course due to the frame geometry, lighter weight, and good suspension.  But that's part of the point, that me on each of my bikes yields noticeably different results.

 

So really it's about a good rider vs. an average rider on the same bike and the differences noted there.  OR, it's about the same rider on two different bikes.  The video I posted is really illustrating the latter point, especially in the context of extreme enduro and endurocross.  A lot of the arguments made in all of MLCG's recent threads have really been blurring these two separate points.

 

I'm a believer, especially after having this little YZ250 for the past few months, that more power doesn't necessarily help an average rider, unless you're talking about top-speed.  Less weight and good suspension (along with better handling) absolutely helps, though, in every regard.  



  • KennyMc

Posted September 08, 2014 - 07:58 PM


As my bike has CLEARLY demonstrated, that is NOT the way it is with Yamaha EFI. Between the FMF muffler and now the exhaust cam, I am sure my engine flows 20% more air. I haven't touched the map and mixture wise it runs the same, 32 to 90F, 2000 to 8,00 feet. Try that with a carburetor.


Absolutely not. The ECU uses it to determine air flow. The engine wouldn't run at all.

You my friend are delusional, I HAVE done that with my carburated bike but I wouldn't be so stupid to make all of those changes and not consider the fuel side of the equation. Good luck with your bike, I hope it gives you as many reliable years as my bike has. But then again, I didn't treat it like you are treating yours. &%$#@!ing pig-headed nimrod. :thumbsup:

Edited by KennyMc, September 08, 2014 - 08:02 PM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 08, 2014 - 08:50 PM


Unless you port the head, (or change the intake or exahaust flow) the cam has no effect on intake or exahust flow pressure.

Only duration.

You must address those issues before the cam, in the flow of the head, intake and exahaust.

This is why your bike runs better; because you have not made it leaner, you have not made it richer, you have made it accept more MIXTURE (not just fuel) by changing cam timing and duration.

This has NOTHING to do with air fuel ratio or timing changes the ECU performs......because it does not know what cam you have.

It's exactly the same with a carb: no need to rejet with a big bore or a cam change....unless the cam is radical and increases rpms dramtically.

The Cam does not SUCK in more anything. It's just open longer, and open at a different time. 

 

You really need to stop making these bold sweeping statements that clearly brand you as not understanding the fundementals of the motors operation.

 

You do not have a closed loop variable FI system!



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 09:05 PM


You my friend are delusional, I HAVE done that with my carburated bike but I wouldn't be so stupid to make all of those changes and not consider the fuel side of the equation. Good luck with your bike, I hope it gives you as many reliable years as my bike has. But then again, I didn't treat it like you are treating yours. &%$#@!ing pig-headed nimrod. :thumbsup:

 

Let me put some numbers to this.  Lets say, as you seem to think is the case, that the map numbers are absolute. Lets say that a stock WR was running an A/F mixture of 14.7:1.  That is stoich, which is probably how it is set up to run. 

 

Now lets say that my FMF exhaust and 08 YZ exhaust cam increased the air flow by 20% and assuming the map was absolute, it didn't compensate.  Assuming a 20% increase in flow, 14.7:1 x 1.2 = 17.64:1 AFR.  IT WOULDN'T EVEN RUN !

 

2 other guys rode my WR yesterday and both commented on how well it ran.  No flat spots, no popping, no overheating, nothing. 

 

So either

1) the stock WR comp ECU map was way rich to start with

 

OR

 

2) The ECU meters fuel based on the measured air flow.

 

Clearly option #2 is at play here, otherwise my bike wouldn't start and run anywhere near as well as it does.

 

And if we accept that the ECU meters fuel based on measured air flow,  then the map adjusts the mixture AFR on the calculated airflow, not absolutely.

 

This is the ONLY way you can explain how my bike ran good both stock and with these enhancements.   That is how EFI works.  Its all based on the calculated air flow.   When you increase the air flow with exhaust and cams, the EFI system measures the increased air flow and delivers more fuel accordingly.

 

There is no other explanation for my bike.  



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 09:16 PM


Unless you port the head, (or change the intake or exahaust flow) the cam has no effect on intake or exahust flow pressure.

 

What the heck is "flow pressure" ?

 

The AF mixture on my bike is the same as it always was.  Its now flowing more air.   The EFI system is calculating how much air its flowing and when it keeps the AF mixture the same, that means its delivering MORE FUEL.  More air+ more fuel, in the right proportions = MORE POWER.  Which is exactly what is happening.

 

If I want the mixture it creates to be richer or leaner, you adjust the map.  The map is NOT the absolute fuel amount, its the adjustment to the AFR of the mixture the EFI system creates.  This is why you don't need to adjust the map for increases in air flow with mods.  The EFI system automatically send more fuel when it senses more air.  

 

Thus there is no chance of burning up the stator or burning a hole in the piston due to lean running.   That might happen with a carburetor, but it doesn't happen with EFI, even open loop.   Even though its open loop, it will still get the mixture right if it is successful at calculating the intake air flow.

 

Apparently this is not true of KTMs EFI system as they require map changes for mods, according to the post above.  Their map tables are absolute, apparently.   I do not know that to be true firsthand, I'm going my what the poster said above.

 

So rest assured my bike runs great with the stock comp ECU map (all zeros) and is not being harmed with a lean or rich mixture in any way.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 08, 2014 - 09:23 PM.


  • vlxjim

Posted September 08, 2014 - 11:03 PM


What the heck is "flow pressure" ?

The AF mixture on my bike is the same as it always was. Its now flowing more air. The EFI system is calculating how much air its flowing and when it keeps the AF mixture the same, that means its delivering MORE FUEL. More air+ more fuel, in the right proportions = MORE POWER. Which is exactly what is happening.

If I want the mixture it creates to be richer or leaner, you adjust the map. The map is NOT the absolute fuel amount, its the adjustment to the AFR of the mixture the EFI system creates. This is why you don't need to adjust the map for increases in air flow with mods. The EFI system automatically send more fuel when it senses more air.

Thus there is no chance of burning up the stator or burning a hole in the piston due to lean running. That might happen with a carburetor, but it doesn't happen with EFI, even open loop. Even though its open loop, it will still get the mixture right if it is successful at calculating the intake air flow.

Apparently this is not true of KTMs EFI system as they require map changes for mods, according to the post above. Their map tables are absolute, apparently. I do not know that to be true firsthand, I'm going my what the poster said above.

So rest assured my bike runs great with the stock comp ECU map (all zeros) and is not being harmed with a lean or rich mixture in any way.


I really hate to jump on you here. But I still see that you have know unstanding of the 2012+ WR fuel system. I don't care if someone told you or you just read it somewhere but its all wrong. And you are making these hugely false statements.

As stated before this is an open FI system. There is absolutely no feedback to the ECU about air fuel ratio's or flow. This is a blind ECU and can only make adjustments based on temperature and barometric pressure or altitude. The only thing the ECU knows is to look at the base map table and the look up tables from the maps that we install (adjustment maps) if you will.
It works like this. The ECU looks throttle position and the RPM. Lets say the throttle is open up 20% and the RPM is 3500 the ECU looks up its base setting and adds or subtracts the giving amount and opens the injecter for a give time. The base setting is also change based on the temp and barometric pressure. As the throttle and RPMs change the ECU makes the opening timing changes based on the parameters that I just discussed. Thats how simple it is. There is no mass airflow sensor or oxygen sensors to give the ECU feedback. The air fuel ratio is adjusted based on the mods and maps installed by the user. The Comp ECU is much richer than the stock ECU. And the four stroke motor is very forgiving of lean or rich AF ratios. And looking at a plugs color is not going to tell you much. The only thing that a plug can tell you is your wide open condition based on a plug chop. A plug chop is done by going WOT and cut the motor at WOT and pull in the cluch coast over and pull the plug right there. The funny thing is you have no idea what changing your map can do for you. It can make your bike run so much better.

You can also get more fuel (richer) by increasing the fuel pressure or running a larger fuel injector. And the ECU would still not know what's going on.

.

Edited by vlxjim, September 08, 2014 - 11:39 PM.


  • vlxjim

Posted September 08, 2014 - 11:46 PM


I'm just not known for my vlxim map. I also have the Raptor 700 MSD fuel controller Dragon fire map.

 

15186848575_b650a2d497_z.jpg

 

15186850535_fa58c10c3c_z.jpg

 

Also my Warrior Power Commander vlxjimwarrior map.

 

15000289447_1376fae036_b.jpg


Edited by vlxjim, September 09, 2014 - 12:18 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 11:47 PM


I really hate to jump on you here. But I still see that you have know unstanding of the 2012+ WR fuel system. I don't care if someone told you or you just read it somewhere but its all wrong. And you are making these hugely false statements.

 

As stated before this is an open FI system. There is absolutely no feedback to the ECU about air fuel ratio's or flow. This is a blind ECU and can only make adjustments based on temperature and barometric pressure or altitude. The only thing the ECU knows is to look at the bast map table and the look up tables from the maps that we install (adjustment maps) if you will. 

It works like this. The ECU looks throttle position and the RPM. Lets say the throttle is open up 20% and the RPM is 3500 the ECU looks up its base setting and adds or subtracts the giving amount and opens the injecter for a give time. The base setting is also change based on the temp and barometric pressure. As the throttle and RPMs change the ECU makes the opening timing changes based on the parameters that I just discussed. Thats how simple it is. There is no mass airflow sensor or oxygen sensors to give the ECU feedback. The air fuel ratio is adjusted based on the mods and maps installed by the user. The Comp ECU is much richer than the stock ECU. And the four stroke motor is very forgiving of lean or rich AF ratios. And looking at a plugs color is not going to tell you much. The only thing that a plug can tell you is your wide open condition based on a plug chop. A plug chop is done by going WOT and cut the motor at WOT and pull in the cluch coast over and pull the plug right there. The funny thing is you have no idea what changing your map can do for you. It can make your bike run so much better.

 

The engine has a MAP sensor.  Based on MAP, RPM, throttle position and air temp, it calculates the air flow.  All speed density systems do this, open loop or closed.  It takes the air flow, looks in the map table for the desired mixture ratio and calculates injector duration.

 

If the injector duration was calculated based on throttle and engine RPM, there would be no way it would tolerate big changes to airflow at a given throttle/RPM combination.  MAP determines what the absolute pressure in the cylinder will be and these systems are also set up to know how much air flows through the throttle body at a certain differential pressure.   Note that the MAP sensor goes into the throttle body, not directly into the manifold like on a car engine.

 

Just because it isn't closed loop and it doesn't have a MAF, doesn't mean it can't calculate air flow.  If you know MAP and throttle position, you'll have a pretty good idea what the air flow is.  Throw in engine RPM and its even better.  By calculating air flow, it allows for running a dirty air cleaner, an aftermarket exhaust system and even things like cams.   Would it handle the increased flow from a ported head ?  Dunno... these systems have limitations. 

 

The reason I know this is because I worked on the code for an FI system like Megasquirt.  http://www.megamanual.com/MSFAQ.htm  As long as  the ECU gets a reasonable read on the engine air flow, the mixture stays decently close.  Lets put it this way... its way closer than you'll ever jet a carburetor.  And by the time you get the carburetor jetted perfect the conditions change and its no longer perfect.

 

Let me throw this back at you... if its so hard for me to tell if my engine is rich or lean right now, how can you possibly tune any WR450F with the ECU map ?  You don't have any more feedback than I do.   The only way to really know is to use an O2 tester. 

 

But based on having good power, good acceleration, no exhaust smoke, good starting, good idle, no stalling, no decel popping, no overheating, smooth operation, no detectable misfire, no engine damage from long term operation and a clean spark plug, my mixture can't be very far off.  

 

The results speak for themselves and its not just my observations.  I generally trade riding a bike or three on every ride.   Many people have ridden my bike in a variety of conditions, while stock and up to now with the cams.  Not once has anyone said its been misfueling or mis jetted, except that we all know the WRs run hot when idling around.  And these same people have made comments on the jetting of their own 2 and 4 stroke bikes at certain times, so its not that they can't see a poorly running engine when its there.  So either there is a massive blind eye towards my bike or a lot of people think its running pretty good. 

 

And if its running good across all these engine mods, how could you explain that using your simple look up system ?  Luck ?  BTW, did you have to remap your engine when you installed your Q4 ?

 

What I don't get is how people can argue that my bike *must be* running poorly according to some theory that they uphold, when *in real life, in front of eyes, on a 20 mile ride, ridden by 3 people* its running great, proving the real theory.  Its like arguing that the sun won't rise this morning while having to wear a pair of sunglasses because its so bright out.

 

As far as running so much better, look in the mirror.   There is no way a mapped stock WR450F will hold a candle to a WR450F with an exhaust cam.  If that were the case, WRs and YZs would have the same cams and Yamaha would just ship a different ECU with the WRs. 

 

I just did a $75 mod that makes my engine way better than what you are trying to do with a $250 programmer.  And I can make it even better, if that is possible, with the programmer.  Meanwhile you guys need to go back to square one to get a baseline on what the cam does without programming and then move forward from there.  Seems backwards to me. 



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  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 08, 2014 - 11:51 PM


You can also get more fuel (richer) by increasing the fuel pressure or running a larger fuel injector. And the ECU would still not know what's going on.

 

Agreed. Its an open system.  That only works if the ECU knows how much fuel the injector delivers for a certain pulse width.

 

That has NOTHING to do with the ECU being able to calculate air flow and being able to fire the injector appropriately, thus being able to handle large swings in airflow from engine changes.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 09, 2014 - 12:14 AM


This is a blind ECU and can only make adjustments based on temperature and barometric pressure or altitude.

The Yamaha FI system doesn't know anything about barometric pressure or altitude.   Look at the schematic if you don't believe me.  There is no altimeter and there is no barometer.

 

All it knows is MAP, throttle position, air temperature and water temperature.  This is enough information to calculate air mass flow into the engine.  Once you know that accurately, the rest is easy. 


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 09, 2014 - 12:15 AM.


  • vlxjim

Posted September 09, 2014 - 12:52 AM


The Yamaha FI system doesn't know anything about barometric pressure or altitude.   Look at the schematic if you don't believe me.  There is no altimeter and there is no barometer.

 

All it knows is MAP, throttle position, air temperature and water temperature.  This is enough information to calculate air mass flow into the engine.  Once you know that accurately, the rest is easy. 

 

Not true when power is turned on and before the motor is started the intake manifold pressure sensor reads the barometric pressure. This is why you need to start the bike let it warmup and turn it off and back on without touching the throttle. At that point it will make an adjustment for the barometric pressure and altitude. 

 

And that is not enough information for the ECU to set the air fuel ratio. It is only enough information to make small changes to the base map plus or minus the adjusted map. Why do you think we use a wideband O2 sensor to figure out whats needed to get the proper air fuel mixture on these maps. The ECU can only adjust the data given. The ECU has no way of making up its own maps. Why you think there's a map in the first place? 



  • vlxjim

Posted September 09, 2014 - 01:07 AM


Agreed. Its an open system.  That only works if the ECU knows how much fuel the injector delivers for a certain pulse width.

 

That has NOTHING to do with the ECU being able to calculate air flow and being able to fire the injector appropriately, thus being able to handle large swings in airflow from engine changes.

 

Again the ECU fuels off the map and when the pulse time for a given map cell is fired it does not know that you increase the fuel flow making the engine run richer.

 

The large swings are already set by the fuel maps based on RPM and the throttle position. When you work the throttle the ECU follows throttle position and increases or decreases the fuel as set in its tables as the RPMs change.


Edited by vlxjim, September 09, 2014 - 02:18 AM.


  • vlxjim

Posted September 09, 2014 - 02:15 AM


The engine has a MAP sensor.  Based on MAP, RPM, throttle position and air temp, it calculates the air flow.  All speed density systems do this, open loop or closed.  It takes the air flow, looks in the map table for the desired mixture ratio and calculates injector duration.

 

If the injector duration was calculated based on throttle and engine RPM, there would be no way it would tolerate big changes to airflow at a given throttle/RPM combination.  MAP determines what the absolute pressure in the cylinder will be and these systems are also set up to know how much air flows through the throttle body at a certain differential pressure.   Note that the MAP sensor goes into the throttle body, not directly into the manifold like on a car engine.

 

Sorry but it is that way. The base table could have hundreds to thousand of fuel cell that are broken into 1% TP and 10-50-100-250 RPMs. The 9 map cells that we add are just crossed over the higher resolution based tables. Some of the fuel systems I work on have anywhere from 200 to1000 even 2000 map cells. Its 2:30am and I not going into this much deeper.

 

 

 

Just because it isn't closed loop and it doesn't have a MAF, doesn't mean it can't calculate air flow.  If you know MAP and throttle position, you'll have a pretty good idea what the air flow is.  Throw in engine RPM and its even better.  By calculating air flow, it allows for running a dirty air cleaner, an aftermarket exhaust system and even things like cams.   Would it handle the increased flow from a ported head ?  Dunno... these systems have limitations. 

 

The reason I know this is because I worked on the code for an FI system like Megasquirt.  http://www.megamanual.com/MSFAQ.htm  As long as  the ECU gets a reasonable read on the engine air flow, the mixture stays decently close.  Lets put it this way... its way closer than you'll ever jet a carburetor.  And by the time you get the carburetor jetted perfect the conditions change and its no longer perfect.

 

Let me throw this back at you... if its so hard for me to tell if my engine is rich or lean right now, how can you possibly tune any WR450F with the ECU map ?  You don't have any more feedback than I do.   The only way to really know is to use an O2 tester. 

 

First off the WRs are very tolerant to rich and lean conditions let's face it comes from the factory pretty lean. And we don't see the intake pressure sensor upping the fuel. I'm run at least eight maps in mine and they all were good and they all have pros and cons. Mileage, heat,, to hard hitting, to soft but they all work.

 

But based on having good power, good acceleration, no exhaust smoke, good starting, good idle, no stalling, no decel popping, no overheating, smooth operation, no detectable misfire, no engine damage from long term operation and a clean spark plug, my mixture can't be very far off.  

 

Probably not, could it be better I bet it could. The stock base map was just a starting place why do you think FMF has a map? Because it was needed.

 

 

The results speak for themselves and its not just my observations.  I generally trade riding a bike or three on every ride.   Many people have ridden my bike in a variety of conditions, while stock and up to now with the cams.  Not once has anyone said its been misfueling or mis jetted, except that we all know the WRs run hot when idling around.  And these same people have made comments on the jetting of their own 2 and 4 stroke bikes at certain times, so its not that they can't see a poorly running engine when its there.  So either there is a massive blind eye towards my bike or a lot of people think its running pretty good. 

 

I'm sure it runs great but just think what they would say if it was tuned even better.

 

 

And if its running good across all these engine mods, how could you explain that using your simple look up system ?  Luck ?  BTW, did you have to remap your engine when you installed your Q4 ?

 

Like I said the WRs very tolerant and the base map is a great starting point. I started my tune with unrestricted stock pipe and switched over to the Q4 before I had finished.

 

 

What I don't get is how people can argue that my bike *must be* running poorly according to some theory that they uphold, when *in real life, in front of eyes, on a 20 mile ride, ridden by 3 people* its running great, proving the real theory.  Its like arguing that the sun won't rise this morning while having to wear a pair of sunglasses because its so bright out.

As far as running so much better, look in the mirror.  

 

There is no way a mapped stock WR450F will hold a candle to a WR450F with an exhaust cam. 

 

Maybe not but you never had one of the hotter tunes in your. its night and day and I know you read all the guys that say so. The stock map was not all that quick.

 

If that were the case, WRs and YZs would have the same cams and Yamaha would just ship a different ECU with the WRs. 

I just did a $75 mod that makes my engine way better than what you are trying to do with a $250 programmer.  And I can make it even better, if that is possible, with the programmer.  Meanwhile you guys need to go back to square one to get a baseline on what the cam does without programming and then move forward from there.  Seems backwards to me. 

 

You're not getting it, What I mean is your bike has more done to it than mine. And the difference between the stock base map and  the F M F map was night and day. As well as the Aussie map. You haven't even seen what a bump in timing well do for you. And trust me about timing a small bump in timing makes a huge difference. But just as you said about running the same cams. MX bikes are tuned differently than an off-road bike. I would not like to have less engine breaking. I come from an XR650 tons of low-end torque and tons of engine braking. But I wanted something a little lighter. And I still wanted a smooth trackable ride that's why I built my map. As well as a few others to see what we could squeeze out of the bike. But those hit too hard wheeled all over the place I didn't like them.

 

 



  • cracker please

Posted September 09, 2014 - 03:52 AM


So you could just let the MAP sensor hang in the atmosphere and plug the hole and it would have no effect on performance?

 

So yeah then?  It's just for taking that one barometric reading when the engine isn't running?



  • revelc

Posted September 09, 2014 - 04:28 AM


What the heck is "flow pressure" ?

The AF mixture on my bike is the same as it always was. Its now flowing more air. The EFI system is calculating how much air its flowing and when it keeps the AF mixture the same, that means its delivering MORE FUEL. More air+ more fuel, in the right proportions = MORE POWER. Which is exactly what is happening.

If I want the mixture it creates to be richer or leaner, you adjust the map. The map is NOT the absolute fuel amount, its the adjustment to the AFR of the mixture the EFI system creates. This is why you don't need to adjust the map for increases in air flow with mods. The EFI system automatically send more fuel when it senses more air.

Thus there is no chance of burning up the stator or burning a hole in the piston due to lean running. That might happen with a carburetor, but it doesn't happen with EFI, even open loop. Even though its open loop, it will still get the mixture right if it is successful at calculating the intake air flow.

Apparently this is not true of KTMs EFI system as they require map changes for mods, according to the post above. Their map tables are absolute, apparently. I do not know that to be true firsthand, I'm going my what the poster said above.

So rest assured my bike runs great with the stock comp ECU map (all zeros) and is not being harmed with a lean or rich mixture in any way.


Then explain why the Yamaha tuner comes with maps in the manual. One of which is an FMF map for use with their exhaust. Another is a map made for the GYTR head and FMF pipe.

They are MOD SPECIFIC maps.
Hmmmmmm....


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • cracker please

Posted September 09, 2014 - 04:34 AM


Then explain why the Yamaha tuner comes with maps in the manual. One of which is an FMF map for use with their exhaust. Another is a map made for the GYTR head and FMF pipe.

They are MOD SPECIFIC maps.
Hmmmmmm....


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

They're also the exact same map, interestingly enough.



  • revelc

Posted September 09, 2014 - 05:21 AM


They're also the exact same map, interestingly enough.


Do you think there is something to that?

Maybe I've been wrong.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 09, 2014 - 05:30 AM


The Keihin Throttle body and ECU, does not, can not, and will not adjust anyting but timing, on the fly. 

It does not adjust Fuel outside of the map it is currently running with.

 

It is impossible to do this without varifying the burn results of the increased pulse width of the injection spray, by measuring O2 levels in the exahust.

 

How would it know if it were doing it correctly on a bike that less compression, worn rings, dirty air filter, old plug, poor quality gas, etc. compared to a new one.....using the MAP?

 

 

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE

 

It just squrts more or less based on current air pressure, temp, throttle positon, and rpm, based on the map you are running, with some wiggle room for air density and temp changes, which happen statically.






 
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