2012+ WR450F Camshaft Upgrade Info.



187 replies to this topic
  • cracker please

Posted September 02, 2014 - 04:04 AM


I do not know what year cam it was (presumably 06-09) as I bought it from a snake oil salesman located in Arizona for $250. Waste of money.

Was that price for both cams?  I was planning on just buying new ones.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 02, 2014 - 07:17 AM


cam table snapshot5.jpg



  • GP1K

Posted September 02, 2014 - 07:40 AM


I'm confused. I thought replacing the fuel stop screw, replacing the ECU then remapping, and derestricting the WR's intake and exhaust were the first things done to drastically improve performance before considering cam swaps? What am I missing here?

 

You are correct, those are the first things to do to drastically improve the performance of the new WRs. Some people just like to try and find a hardware solution for what is actually a software problem, and are very stubborn about it.



  • KennyMc

Posted September 02, 2014 - 09:28 AM


I agree completely. Remapping an EFI bike is akin to retting a carb'd bike. A must do to alleviate the CARB restrictions. First thing I did on my '14 350EXC before I even rode it. Same as I did on my '07 WR450 (re-jetted)

  • Jonesy11

Posted September 02, 2014 - 09:31 AM


Got the shipping confirmation that the gytr head and cam should be here Thursday. Can't wait. I will put up a comparison when I get them installed.

  • RockerYZWR

Posted September 04, 2014 - 08:06 AM


I thought this video illustrated some interesting points that have been argued here.  This is the stuff I watch like crazy on YouTube and then go out and try to do - although my local areas are either dunes/whooped out sand track or basically flat dirt trails like in my YZ250 Play Riding video.  Not a whole lot in the way of obstacles.  Growing up as a kid, I was lucky to have a dirt bike at all in my house, but I wish my parents had been into it as well and would have pointed me in the direction of trials riding.  Until later high school and into college, my only riding pretty much consisted of our yard in NJ and as many places in the woods around town I could ride without getting the cops called on me.  But trials is a whole set of fundamentals that I just never had that seems to really make for a well-rounded dirt bike rider.

 

Again - not to incite arguments, but to add to a discussion.  I think this gives a great perspective on bike vs. rider (for this type of riding).

 

 



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 07, 2014 - 05:45 PM


The 08 exhaust cam ROCKS.

 

1) Dramatic decrease in engine braking.  Makes the bike flow way better between obstacles, throgh corners, etc.  Way less tiring to ride.  Don't need to be nearly as cautious with chopping the throttle (or pulling in the clutch) in slippery terrain.

 

2) Way smoother in the bottom end.  The boomy off throttle response is mellowed out.  Its like driving a strong electric motor from idle to redline and it pulls further up, harder.

 

3) Instantaneous response.  Even more so with the stock cam.  Its like driving the bike with a rheostat.  It gives exactly how much power you ask for, right now.  So excellent climbing hills.

 

4) Way better and smoother lugging and tractoring.  Less flame out.   I was climbing a big hill in 2nd and missed shifting down to first to get around a tree and through some rocks before it opened up again.  The bike lugged me through the tight stuff and up the rest of the hill in 2nd.  All without clutching.  I could not believe it.  

 

5) It seems to run cooler.  I'll have to do more rides to verify that.

 

I don't see any downside to running an 08 exhaust cam in these engines.  I can't think of a single thing that the engine did better with the stock exhaust cam.   The 08 exahust cam takes a good engine and makes it fantastic.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 07, 2014 - 06:46 PM


2008 YZ cam?

 

What timing

 

Does it e start

 

What else has been done to the motor beside the cam


Edited by Kah Ran Nee, September 07, 2014 - 06:46 PM.


  • GP1K

Posted September 07, 2014 - 07:32 PM


I thought this video illustrated some interesting points that have been argued here.  This is the stuff I watch like crazy on YouTube and then go out and try to do - although my local areas are either dunes/whooped out sand track or basically flat dirt trails like in my YZ250 Play Riding video.  Not a whole lot in the way of obstacles.  Growing up as a kid, I was lucky to have a dirt bike at all in my house, but I wish my parents had been into it as well and would have pointed me in the direction of trials riding.  Until later high school and into college, my only riding pretty much consisted of our yard in NJ and as many places in the woods around town I could ride without getting the cops called on me.  But trials is a whole set of fundamentals that I just never had that seems to really make for a well-rounded dirt bike rider.

 

Again - not to incite arguments, but to add to a discussion.  I think this gives a great perspective on bike vs. rider (for this type of riding).

 

 

Finally had a chance to watch this... great vid! Thanks for sharing. A lot of what he was talking about is exactly why I went back to a 250F for my single track bike... it's just easier to manage in tight, slow going technical terrain. OTOH, the the more the terrain opens up, the more my WR shines. If only my bikes could transform from one to the other, then I'd always have the perfect bike regardless of terrain.

 

But screw all that, I'm selling both my bikes to get a DR 1800. :ride:


Edited by GP1K, September 07, 2014 - 07:39 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 07, 2014 - 07:37 PM


2008 YZ cam?

 

What timing

 

Does it e start

 

What else has been done to the motor beside the cam

 

Yep, stock 08 YZ450F exhaust cam.   Run the stock WR intake cam.  The 08 YZ intake cam seems to make the valves interfere slightly with the piston.

 

Stock cam timing, just like you would time the cams in a WR. 

 

The specs for the 08 YZ exhaust cam are in the table a few posts up.

 

Dunno if it eStarts.  It kicks easier than with the WR cam.   The starter fell out of my bike.  LOL.

 

The rest of the engine is stock except that I did the KX mod on the cold start cylinder, which shouldn't have much effect.

 

I'm not saying that the WR intake/ 08 YZ exhaust cam is optimal.   There may  be a better combination.   But a) it works great and B) if you want something simple that enhances whats already there with zero side effects, there it is.

 

Oh yeah, its great for getting the front wheel up when you need to.

 

I'll be dreaming of the singletrack we ran today all night long.

b85efa8070e6dbccf7285207bfb3a3db.jpg


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 07, 2014 - 07:45 PM.


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  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 07, 2014 - 07:49 PM


You have not adjusted the map for proper fuel air ratio yet?

 

Why? It's waaaaaaaay to lean stock.  Lean enough to eventually fry the stator, which has been a long standing problem with all WR's.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 07, 2014 - 07:59 PM


You have not adjusted the map for proper fuel air ratio yet?

 

Why? It's waaaaaaaay to lean stock.  Lean enough to eventually fry the stator, which has been a long standing problem with all WR's.

2012+ WR450Fs run fuel injection which attempts to quantify the volume of air going into the cylinder using engine RPM, manifold pressure and throttle position.  Better breathing should result in lower manifold pressure, and the FI system should give it more fuel.   

 

At no time did my bike seem lean, nor did it run hot.  As a matter of fact, it seemed to run the coolest it ever has. 

 

I've already adjusted C1 to 8, for a richer mixture below 3,000 RPM.  At some point I'll play around with the tuner, though at this point I'm not sure what I would do to improve anything.  Its great as it is.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 07, 2014 - 08:01 PM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 07, 2014 - 08:15 PM


You do know of course that you have an open loop type FI system

It can only adjust from the base map +/- 10%, no more.

 

It cannot adjust to anything but mass air pressure and temp. It cannot alter outside the range in the mapping program.

It does not have a mass air flow sensor, so it cannot determine the mass of the actual inducted air, only the atmospheric air pressure.

It does not have an oxygen sensor, so it cannot adjust as needed fuel air ratios. It can only jump to one of (12) maps inside the ECU that are matrixed together for fuel and ignition curves.

 

It does not adust any maps on the fly, ever, accept when it reaches a critical temp, it retards the ignition.  

 

Only when you kill the motor and restart it for 30 seconds with no throttle will it adjust to surrounding atmospheric pressure.

 

So, if it starts lean, and you add more air flow intake, exahuast, or a different cam, you are now way outside the needs of the baseline map

Just like if you change the pipe, intake, etc.

 

That's why you need a GYTR ECU.

...but you must have one already, since you said you adjusted box #1 for more fuel



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 07, 2014 - 08:17 PM


I thought this video illustrated some interesting points that have been argued here.  This is the stuff I watch like crazy on YouTube and then go out and try to do - although my local areas are either dunes/whooped out sand track or basically flat dirt trails like in my YZ250 Play Riding video.  Not a whole lot in the way of obstacles.  Growing up as a kid, I was lucky to have a dirt bike at all in my house, but I wish my parents had been into it as well and would have pointed me in the direction of trials riding.  Until later high school and into college, my only riding pretty much consisted of our yard in NJ and as many places in the woods around town I could ride without getting the cops called on me.  But trials is a whole set of fundamentals that I just never had that seems to really make for a well-rounded dirt bike rider.

 

Again - not to incite arguments, but to add to a discussion.  I think this gives a great perspective on bike vs. rider (for this type of riding).

 

 

This advice is absolutely true.....and absolutely wrong as well.

 

If you do not have enough skill to ride better than your buddy, more power and better handling can ( not will, but can) help you.

 

The bottom line is, LEARN HOW TO RIDE, not how to read specs and shop. 

Consider every ride a practice session, and  improve your skills with every ride.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 07, 2014 - 08:21 PM


Whatever.



  • KennyMc

Posted September 07, 2014 - 09:47 PM


You do know of course that you have an open loop type FI system

It can only adjust from the base map +/- 10%, no more.

 

It cannot adjust to anything but mass air pressure and temp. It cannot alter outside the range in the mapping program.

It does not have a mass air flow sensor, so it cannot determine the mass of the actual inducted air, only the atmospheric air pressure.

It does not have an oxygen sensor, so it cannot adjust as needed fuel air ratios. It can only jump to one of (12) maps inside the ECU that are matrixed together for fuel and ignition curves.

 

It does not adust any maps on the fly, ever, accept when it reaches a critical temp, it retards the ignition.  

 

Only when you kill the motor and restart it for 30 seconds with no throttle will it adjust to surrounding atmospheric pressure.

 

So, if it starts lean, and you add more air flow intake, exahuast, or a different cam, you are now way outside the needs of the baseline map

Just like if you change the pipe, intake, etc.

 

That's why you need a GYTR ECU.

...but you must have one already, since you said you adjusted box #1 for more fuel

 

 

Whatever.

Is the "whatever" to Krannie's post? 



  • revelc

Posted September 08, 2014 - 03:54 AM


2012+ WR450Fs run fuel injection which attempts to quantify the volume of air going into the cylinder using engine RPM, manifold pressure and throttle position. Better breathing should result in lower manifold pressure, and the FI system should give it more fuel.

At no time did my bike seem lean, nor did it run hot. As a matter of fact, it seemed to run the coolest it ever has.

I've already adjusted C1 to 8, for a richer mixture below 3,000 RPM. At some point I'll play around with the tuner, though at this point I'm not sure what I would do to improve anything. Its great as it is.


Like Krannie said it doesn't work like your cars fuel injection. It uses different sensors for fuel mapping and runs very lean from the factory once you are above idle range.

If you have removed the peashooter, replaced your exhaust, removed the snorkel, or changed how much air gets in and out it is still going to use the stock map designed to run a restricted engine.

ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1410177245.214779.jpg

Your bike doesn't have to "seem lean" to be running lean. Check your plug lately?

It could give you better throttle control as well as keeping your engine healthy by richening things up.

I don't want to see a post with a hole burned through your piston!

Glad you are pleased with the cam swap results.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • stevethe

Posted September 08, 2014 - 06:29 AM


Like Krannie said it doesn't work like your cars fuel injection. It uses different sensors for fuel mapping and runs very lean from the factory once you are above idle range.

If you have removed the peashooter, replaced your exhaust, removed the snorkel, or changed how much air gets in and out it is still going to use the stock map designed to run a restricted engine.

attachicon.gifImageUploadedByThumper Talk1410177245.214779.jpg

Your bike doesn't have to "seem lean" to be running lean. Check your plug lately?

It could give you better throttle control as well as keeping your engine healthy by richening things up.

I don't want to see a post with a hole burned through your piston!

Glad you are pleased with the cam swap results.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

 

I don't think most modern water cooled 4T will burn a hole through the piston..... They just run like shit when not remapped.



  • cracker please

Posted September 08, 2014 - 06:43 AM


Not all cars have a MAF.  I think it's a lot like the speed density system that some cars use but without the O2 sensors.



  • revelc

Posted September 08, 2014 - 07:16 AM


I don't think most modern water cooled 4T will burn a hole through the piston..... They just run like shit when not remapped.


Care to experiment for us?


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...




 
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