2012+ WR450F Camshaft Upgrade Info.



187 replies to this topic
  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 26, 2014 - 08:49 PM

#41

My understanding was that this re-timing of the exahust cam to YZ spec was done from 2007 onward on the stock WR cam.

 

Nope, it absolutely isn't/ wasn't.

 

If you read through the tangled mess of examples I gave, the secret to every successful cam change was retiming WR exhaust to YZ specs, either by retarding the exhaust cam or swapping a YZ exhaust cam, up to and including the 2011 engine mbirt dynoed, going from 39 HP to 48 HP. 

 

The 2011 engine didn't even use a YZ cam, it just retimed the low lift exhaust cam.  The 5 valve Yamaha 450 engines have so much valve area that even a simple retiming allows pretty significant gains. 

 

The valve info for the 2007 to present engines is also in the table.  As mbirt explained, the cams in these engines are designed to work with highly restrictive stock exhaust systems.   When you remove the exhaust restriction, you can run more aggressive cams with almost no ill effect.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 26, 2014 - 08:59 PM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 26, 2014 - 08:54 PM

#42

I rode a fully uncorked '09 with a 2006 YZ exahust cam in it, and it was a nice change, but no 10 hp from the cam alone. 

The 38 is stock corked, and the 49 is retimed uncorked, right? 

The uncorking makes up for 7hp to begin with.....



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 26, 2014 - 08:56 PM

#43

I predict 2 more things when one changes the cams in these engines

 

- the engine will go from from being great to outstanding.

- the bike is going to feel lighter because the engine will help throw it around better and because of the decreased exhaust braking

 

It might demand a bit more throttle control in the mid and upper end, but we should be able to tune that out with maps and possibly with throttle cams.

 

I suspect the reduced engine braking is going to make it easier to ride in slippery conditions.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 26, 2014 - 09:03 PM

#44

I rode a fully uncorked '09 with a 2006 YZ exahust cam in it, and it was a nice change, but no 10 hp from the cam alone. 

The 38 is stock corked, and the 49 is retimed uncorked, right? 

The uncorking makes up for 7hp to begin with.....

 

mbirts engine went from 39HP to 48HP.   That is the only dyno proven data point I have.  I'm trying to keep this scientific with the little data we have.

 

I'll be putting my bike back together before the weekend.  It will be running a cam change of some sort, if only to provide another data point if nothing else.



  • cracker please

Posted August 27, 2014 - 02:34 AM

#45

http://www.yfzcentra...birt-style.html

post 8 he says it was stock exhaust vs. full exhaust and retimed cam.



  • cracker please

Posted August 27, 2014 - 03:00 AM

#46

My understanding was that this re-timing of the exahust cam to YZ spec was done from 2007 onward on the stock WR cam.

I think the 03-05 WR exhaust cam was like a YZ cam one tooth off.  The 07+ WR cams had less lift but you could still re-time the exhaust cam for more overlap.  Or not?  The 06 WR exhaust cam was just for one year, I'm not sure the specs on that one.


Edited by cracker please, August 27, 2014 - 02:25 PM.


  • Mbirt

Posted August 27, 2014 - 07:05 AM

#47

Whew!  It feels like it's late 2011 again and I'm going back through this for the first time.  Even though I was working with WR engines, I turned to YFZ Central because much more information was available there concerning the 5-valve Yamaha platform.

 

First of all, I apologize for leading anyone to believe that the 9 hp gain over stock with the 2011 WR could be attributed in any way to the retiming of the exhaust cam and not the uncorking/upgrading of the exhaust system.  The engine was new to me and I was under the false impression that the exhaust cam was advanced a tooth like the carbureted YFZ and pre-07 WR and that more power could be had by retarding it to "YZ timing".  The reality was that I retarded the 07-up low-lift, low-duration WR exhaust cam 22.5 degrees to add 22.5 deg of overlap and open 22.5 deg later.  Don't do what I did--the "cam mod" is only for the pre-09 carb YFZ and the pre-07 WR.  If the exhaust cam has 7.x mm, it is a dead end and do not bother retiming it.  I think you guys have already confirmed that all 07-up WR's have this exhaust cam.

 

I am not sure why YFZ cams have not been considered in this thread.  It's the same platform!  The 09-up YFZR/X exhaust cam should be of particular interest for those who want an OEM Yamaha cam upgrade and good electric starting (decomp pin characteristics).  Check it out in this thread: http://www.yfzcentra...ifications.html  That is the only OEM Yamaha cam I can suggest as an upgrade without suggesting something from Hot Cam or Wiseco.  Other YZ and YFZ exhaust cams will present timing/starting compromises (the woes associated with the "cam mod").

 

On to intake cams--where the power lies.  The 07-11 WR head is similar to the YFZ head and the 12+ WR head is similar to the YFZR/X head.  When you read cam information for the YFZ's, use this information to help translate it for WR's.  The YFZ cams can be considered good for OEM Yamaha except for the 22.5 deg advancement of the exhaust cam.  The YFZR/X is handicapped by the same intake cam as the WR, but has a good OEM Yamaha exhaust cam.

 

As you can see in the thread above, you've got a huge number of choices available.  The 06-09 YFZ and 08-09 YZ intake cams are the same but with a 10 degree change in lobe center.  The YFZ cam is a 107 deg lobe center an the YZ cam is a 97 deg lobe center (very tight).  The 08-09 YZ cam closes the intake valves 45 deg ABDC, while the stock WR cam closes the intake valves at 46.5 ABDC.  This will mean that the YZ cam gives greater "hit" but less top-end power, while the YFZ cam will make more peak power.  Both are good upgrades over the 7.7 mm lift, 234 deg. duration WR intake cam used to detune the bike.  The YZ cam will be more sensitive to exhaust (overlap), while the YFZ cam will be more sensitive to intake tuning (later intake valve closing).  The delayed IVC of the YFZ cam also means you can add more compression without knock.

 

The Hot Cams 4023 is an even greater step past the YFZ intake cam with lots of duration and late IVC at 64.6 deg ABDC.  I had great luck with the Hot Cams 4097 (YFZ Stage 3) in both the 2011 and 2012 WR engines, but, going on specs alone, it should be considered as another step past the YFZ intake cam.

 

The Stage 1-3 Hot Cams for the YFZR/X can all be considered as upgrades from the stock WR cam, but milder than the YFZ carb intake cam (the stage 3 is close but with slightly less duration).  If you're afraid of losing bottom-end power with the YFZ intake cam and the high overlap, tight lobe center specs of the 08-09 YZ intake cam concern you, then these Hot Cams are worth looking at.  There's also the 2014 YFZR intake cam with slightly more lift and duration than previous model, but I do not have specs for this one yet.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 27, 2014 - 07:06 AM

#48

http://www.yfzcentra...birt-style.html

post 8 he says it was stock exhaust vs. full exhaust and retimed cam.

 

...exactly. No 10 hp from just a cam, unless you port the crap out of it.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 27, 2014 - 07:54 AM

#49

Whew!  It feels like it's late 2011 again and I'm going back through this for the first time.  Even though I was working with WR engines, I turned to YFZ Central because much more information was available there concerning the 5-valve Yamaha platform.

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread.  Your contribution here is greatly appreciated.

 

First of all, I apologize for leading anyone to believe that the 9 hp gain over stock with the 2011 WR could be attributed in any way to the retiming of the exhaust cam and not the uncorking/upgrading of the exhaust system.  The engine was new to me and I was under the false impression that the exhaust cam was advanced a tooth like the carbureted YFZ and pre-07 WR and that more power could be had by retarding it to "YZ timing".  The reality was that I retarded the 07-up low-lift, low-duration WR exhaust cam 22.5 degrees to add 22.5 deg of overlap and open 22.5 deg later.  Don't do what I did--the "cam mod" is only for the pre-09 carb YFZ and the pre-07 WR.  If the exhaust cam has 7.x mm, it is a dead end and do not bother retiming it.

 

I am very glad you cleared that up.   That dyno run had 2 mods, the exhaust and the cams.   You mentioned that that engine went on to make 60HP with those cams and it wasn't at all clear that they weren't the centerpiece of that gain.   You just saved me a lot of frustration by clearing that up.

 

 

I think you guys have already confirmed that all 07-up WR's have this exhaust cam.
  Yes we did, but it wasn't clear that it has already been advanced vis a vis the pre 2007 cams.   Are you absolutely sure about that ?

 

I am not sure why YFZ cams have not been considered in this thread. 
  Because I'm over my head with the cam specs and the YFZ is a lot heavier machine in a different application.  I thought maybe Yamaha used a higher revving cam in them to squeeze power out because the rider wouldn't have to worry about controlability as much.   I know you and mixxer mentioned they were torque beasts.

 

It's the same platform!  The 09-up YFZR/X exhaust cam should be of particular interest for those who want an OEM Yamaha cam upgrade and good electric starting (decomp pin characteristics).  Check it out in this thread: http://www.yfzcentra...ifications.html  That is the only OEM Yamaha cam I can suggest as an upgrade without suggesting something from Hot Cam or Wiseco.  Other YZ and YFZ exhaust cams will present timing/starting compromises (the woes associated with the "cam mod").
Thank you.   Just to be clear, what are the woes of the cam mod ?

 

On to intake cams--where the power lies.  The 07-11 WR head is similar to the YFZ head and the 12+ WR head is similar to the YFZR/X head.  When you read cam information for the YFZ's, use this information to help translate it for WR's.
  Good to know. 

 

The YFZ cams can be considered good for OEM Yamaha except for the 22.5 deg advancement of the exhaust cam.
  Huh ?  Are you saying that any YFZ cam set is good for use in a 2012+ WR engine and if you do, retard the exhaust cam ?

 



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 27, 2014 - 07:56 AM

#50

The YFZR/X is handicapped by the same intake cam as the WR, but has a good OEM Yamaha exhaust cam.
  So a good exhaust cam for the 2012+ WRs is the YFZR/X exhaust cam ?   Is it high lift ?

 

As you can see in the thread above, you've got a huge number of choices available.  The 06-09 YFZ and 08-09 YZ intake cams are the same but with a 10 degree change in lobe center.
OK.

 

The YFZ cam is a 107 deg lobe center an the YZ cam is a 97 deg lobe center (very tight).  The 08-09 YZ cam closes the intake valves 45 deg ABDC, while the stock WR cam closes the intake valves at 46.5 ABDC.  This will mean that the YZ cam gives greater "hit" but less top-end power, while the YFZ cam will make more peak power.
  So the YZ cam would be better for woods type riding, no real loss of bottom end in the 2012+ WR engines ?  

 

When you say the YFZ cam above, do you mean the YFZR/X cam or the YFZ cam ?  

 

Both are good upgrades over the 7.7 mm lift, 234 deg. duration WR intake cam used to detune the bike.  The YZ cam will be more sensitive to exhaust (overlap), while the YFZ cam will be more sensitive to intake tuning (later intake valve closing).  The delayed IVC of the YFZ cam also means you can add more compression without knock.

 

This is all with the 2012+ WR engine, ie the big port volume, low velocity head ?  Mixxer spends a lot of time talking about reversion and how longer duration/higher lift cams won't really work in that head.  These cams will work ?

 

The Hot Cams 4023 is an even greater step past the YFZ intake cam with lots of duration and late IVC at 64.6 deg ABDC.  I had great luck with the Hot Cams 4097 (YFZ Stage 3) in both the 2011 and 2012 WR engines, but, going on specs alone, it should be considered as another step past the YFZ intake cam.

 

The Stage 1-3 Hot Cams for the YFZR/X can all be considered as upgrades from the stock WR cam, but milder than the YFZ carb intake cam (the stage 3 is close but with slightly less duration).  If you're afraid of losing bottom-end power with the YFZ intake cam and the high overlap, tight lobe center specs of the 08-09 YZ intake cam concern you, then these Hot Cams are worth looking at.  There's also the 2014 YFZR intake cam with slightly more lift and duration than previous model, but I do not have specs for this one yet.

 

Could you distill this information down a bit further ?  I'm not a cam expert.   "We" aren't looking for huge HP gains on these bikes (2012+ WR450F), but some gain, mostly mid and upper, while keeping the bottom end pretty much the same as it is stock.  Remember, these are 270 pound bikes, not big quads, so a big HP number is not my ultimate goal.  A bit less exhaust braking and a cooler running engine would be nice as well.   Could you list a few cam sets/combinations in order of preference that would achieve these goals ?

 

Thanks again, your input is greatly appreciated.
 



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  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 27, 2014 - 07:59 AM

#51

I posted a question to mbirt on the YZR Central forum as follows.

 

---Quote (Originally by WR450Pilot)---
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but what do these curves look like below 5,000 RPM ?   Specifically, how is the 08 YZ cam in the 2012 WR450F engine down low ?  How is the part throttle response ?
---End Quote---
No problem, posting here is best in my opinion.  You've experienced how difficult it is to scour the web for bits and pieces of cam information.

We were running a Rekluse clutch set up for 5000 rpm WOT engagement, so I can't say.  Our intake and exhaust designs for the FSAE car likely performed worse at low-speed than a bike or quad would with off-the-shelf parts (sacrifices made to maximize power between the torque peak and rev limiter).  I'd say the WR/YFZR intake cam will perform best below 5000 rpm, followed by the 08-09 YZ cam (with more overlap causing problems) and then everything else (later intake valve closing).

The best input for how the 08-09 YZ intake cam will perform with a good exhaust cam (anything other than the stock WR cam) and uncorked exhaust will be from people that have tried it in their YFZR/X engines.  I believe the consensus is that the low-end is stronger than the YFZ cam in similar builds.  I'm not as active here any more, so searching around might yield more test results.

 

Source: http://www.yfzcentra...e-new-post.html

 

At this point I'm just going to install my 08 YZ cams and see how they work.



  • GP1K

Posted August 27, 2014 - 08:05 AM

#52



 

 

This will mean that the YZ cam gives greater "hit" but less top-end power, while the YFZ cam will make more peak power.

 

 

  So the YZ cam would be better for woods type riding, no real loss of bottom end in the 2012+ WR engines ?  

 

 

 

 

You know how I know you only hear what you want to hear about cams? This logical leap right here. NEITHER of those outcomes are better for woods riding, period.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 27, 2014 - 08:18 AM

#53

You know how I know you only hear what you want to hear about cams? This logical leap right here. NEITHER of those outcomes are better for woods riding, period.

 

I get that you are against every change I want to make on my bike.   That is great, you are entitled to your opinion. 

 

YOU may not prefer a YZ cam for woods riding, but I might.   I might be more aggressive than you are.  After all, some people do prefer a YZ powerband to a WR powerband for just about everything.

 

Furthermore, ITS AN EXPERIMENT.  As long as I am fine with swapping the cam out should it not work well, I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE.  And there might be a gain. 

 

So please, the next time you feel the need to poo poo something I want to try, HOLD YOUR BREATH.  The world is full of nay sayers.   People with ideas and optimism DO NOT need any more criticism.  I'd rather be the fool that tries this than the arm chair quarterback who knows it won't work without trying.



  • GP1K

Posted August 27, 2014 - 09:41 AM

#54

I get that you are against every change I want to make on my bike.   That is great, you are entitled to your opinion. 

 

YOU may not prefer a YZ cam for woods riding, but I might.   I might be more aggressive than you are.  After all, some people do prefer a YZ powerband to a WR powerband for just about everything.

 

Furthermore, ITS AN EXPERIMENT.  As long as I am fine with swapping the cam out should it not work well, I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE.  And there might be a gain. 

 

So please, the next time you feel the need to poo poo something I want to try, HOLD YOUR BREATH.  The world is full of nay sayers.   People with ideas and optimism DO NOT need any more criticism.  I'd rather be the fool that tries this than the arm chair quarterback who knows it won't work without trying.

 

Not against every change at all. I find what you've done to lighten your bike interesting. It's not for me, but I do appreciate it in terms of what can be done with these bikes. There are racers that have done the same thing, so you're not alone there.

 

OTOH, your logical leaps regarding cams are frankly hilarious, and only serve to prove your keyboard time reading threads about cams etc vastly outweighs your real world riding experience, otherwise you would already know better. Let's just look at some basic facts. YZFs are designed and tuned for an MX track, not the woods. WRs are designed and tuned for woods/trail riding, not an MX track. The demands on a bike on an MX track are very, very different from riding woods/trails. The type of power and delivery optimal for MX is NOT at all optimal for woods riding. So why would making your power delivery more MX-like be better for the woods? It's not. Unless your idea of 'tight woods' is very very different from mine.

 

I highly doubt you're more aggressive rider than me. I've been riding for over 30 years, some of those early years road-racing. You've been at it what, a year or so? And you're already such an aggressive, fast rider you NEED YZF-like top end power? Bullshit. You're just fooling yourself, and trying to find a technical solution for your lack of skills. Try taking one of Shane Watts classes (or similar) it will improve your riding a thousand times more than experimenting with cams ever could.

 

Replacing cams was a popular mod on the *older* WRs, lots of guys did it, those bikes were slower revving and less racy to begin with, and benefitted from the cam swap. News flash: the 2012+ bikes are a different animal, and don't need or respond to the same mods the same way. And other than you and Dirt Bike, I really don't see many people swapping cams on 2012+ WRs, *especially* without even remapping the FI first. Why don't you want to experiment with THAT? It boggles the mind. Also, as was pointed out in your cam thread, a good chunk of YFZ etc riders that do it just drag race or ride dunes etc... where you need all the top end power you can get, which again is not at all like woods riding.

 

You know what else the world is full of? People with years of experience and seat time, engine tuners with dynos that have actually done all these things and have real-world data to back it up, vs someone just regurgitating a bunch of shit they read on Internet and theorizing about things they have no idea &%$#@! they're talking about.

 

Here's some food for thought: KTM uses the same basic motor, frame etc for their SX, XCF,  and XCF-W model bikes. So what makes an SX an SX vs an XCF-W? The SX has more aggressive cams & ignition timing, for more top end power and hit, but with a loss of bottom end and tractability. XCF-Ws. XCFW-s have broader power and more bottom end, with less snap and less top end power/overrev. Why? Because SXs are made for MX tracks, XCF-Ws are made single track trail riding.

 

You've had multiple people here suggest you try tuning your FI first, yet you refuse, you're so gung-ho on the cam swap thing you won't even hear it. It's the one thing that can greatly change the personality and power delivery of the bike, and it's simple and easy to do. But you refuse to do it, instead insisting on a path that is more expensive, time consuming, has potential to go very wrong if you don't do it correctly, all for questionable potential results vs tried and proven with the FI tuning.

 

So you keep posting your half-baked theories, I'll keep debunking them.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 27, 2014 - 10:14 AM

#55

You know it all, right ? 

 

There are probably 40 different combinations of cams out there that will run in a 2012+ WR450F and you know that the stock WR cam, which was apparently developed to work best with a highly restrictive stock exhaust system, is best for every rider and all woods applications ?   Only a fool would believe that.

 

Of course you don't want more power and don't understand those that do.  You've relegated your WR to DS duty and have taken up riding a nice, safe, stock 250F on the trails.   Have fun with that.

 

I have other plans for my WR and I'll be the judge of what is worth experimenting with and what is best for my application.

 

Your insecurity that someone may do something new or novel shines through in your replies to every one of my posts.  There is no other explanation for putting as much time and effort into rebuking my efforts as you do.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 27, 2014 - 10:20 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 27, 2014 - 10:24 AM

#56

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
Theodore Roosevelt



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 27, 2014 - 11:15 AM

#57

Updated cam table. Cam table snapshot4.jpg

 

The stock 2007+ WR exhaust cams do not use YZ cam timing with the YZ cam mod or not.

2007- WR 450F exhaust LCA = 126.5 degrees

2007 WR 450F exhaust LCA = 113.5 degrees.

2007 WR 450F exhaust LCA with YZ mod = 91 degrees. <- not my math !

2006 YZ 450F exhaust LCA = 104 degrees.

2008 YZ450F exhaust LCA = 99.5 degrees.

 

So the stock 2007+ WR 450F has an LCA about 10 degrees more than a YZ cam (113.5 versus 99.5 to 104.5), but is 13 degrees less than a pre 2007 WR cam.

 

An advanced 2007+ WR exhaust cam has an LCA of 91 degrees, which is less than everything including a 2008 YZ450F, at 99.5 degrees.

 

Question: how many degrees is a tooth on a WR camshaft ?  I've seen 26, 13 and now 22.5 (113.5-91).   Must be 22.5 degrees because 126.5 (early WR) minus 104 (early YZ) = 22.5 as well.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 27, 2014 - 11:34 AM.


  • GP1K

Posted August 27, 2014 - 11:43 AM

#58

You know it all, right ? 

 

There are probably 40 different combinations of cams out there that will run in a 2012+ WR450F and you know that the stock WR cam, which was apparently developed to work best with a highly restrictive stock exhaust system, is best for every rider and all woods applications ?   Only a fool would believe that.

 

Of course you don't want more power and don't understand those that do.  You've relegated your WR to DS duty and have taken up riding a nice, safe, stock 250F on the trails.   Have fun with that.

 

I have other plans for my WR and I'll be the judge of what is worth experimenting with and what is best for my application.

 

Your insecurity that someone may do something new or novel shines through in your replies to every one of my posts.  There is no other explanation for putting as much time and effort into rebuking my efforts as you do.

 

Nope I don't know it all, and neither do you. But I tend to listen to people with more real-world experience than me, not people with little experience and lots of online research time.

 

WR cams are NOT designed to work the best with the highly restrictive exhaust system. The highly restrictive exhaust system (and throttle stop, etc) are all purely to pass emissions. Pretty much nobody rides their WR showroom stock. The cams were designed to run with the bike uncorked. Otherwise, it would run WORSE when uncorked, but it doesn't. It runs way, way better. I'm surprised you didn't already know this, given your exhaustive cam research.

 

It's not that I don't want more power, it's that I realize more power, especially in the upper RPMs, is simply not going to help me go faster in the woods, or make my bike any easier to ride fast in the woods. In fact, it would have the polar opposite effect. I've owned some of the biggest and baddest sport bikes ever made: GSXR1000 and Hayabusa. I &%$#@!ing LOVE power, but I'm also a smart and experienced enough rider to know when there's too much power, and for where I ride, a 450 is too much power & too much weight, and I can't ride it as hard/fast as long. Just like 99.9% of all riders. As such, I'd bet my left nut YOU would be faster on a 250F too. Unless of course you're god's gift to riding, and have learned more in one year than most do in a lifetime, and are just so naturally talented you're a pro caliber rider after just a year, cuz that is about the only person that benefits from more top end power in a woods bike. If so, you really need to call Joe Gibbs Racing, they can always use talent like yours. Get rid of those slow kids Brayton and Grant, and hire you instead.

 

The fact that you mock my KTM as 'nice safe stock 250F' proves just how clueless you are. Wanna know why my KTM is 'stock'? Because it's ready to rock right off the showroom floor. It doesn't need to be uncorked or remapped, new exhaust etc. It's already there. Just sprung it for my weight, armored it up and it's good to go. I had to spend nearly a grand just to get my WR to run right. You've been riding one year, on one bike, You have jack shit for a frame of reference, yet talk like you know everything there is to know about bikes, when it's patently obvious you don't. I rode a 250F for 8 years, then decided to try something new, so I got the WR450. It was too much weight and too much to manage in the terrain I ride. It was fun as hell in the right places, but overall it slowed me down. So I went back to a 250F, and couldn't be happier. If I rode in more open/faster terrain, the WR would be a better choice. But I don't, so it isn't.

 

My 'insecurity' that you might reinvent the wheel and revolutionize motorcycling as we know it? Yeah right. If anyone is insecure here, it is you. You mock my 'safe 250' like only 'real men' like you can handle a 450, right?. I'd love to see you try to keep up with some of my buddies on their woods-out 125 smokers. You couldn't keep them in sight for 3 corners. And then have them take you on trails where you'd be begging them to ride your bike out for you. It would be most entertaining, and a big reality check for you.

 

There's an old saying, it's better to ride a slow bike fast, than ride a fast bike slow. And I guarantee you're riding that fast bike slow. I rebuke you posts, as you posit your theories as fact, refuse to listen to people with more knowledge and experience than you, and thus need to be called out for it. Perfect example: in this very thread, you state 'YZ cams losing bottom end is myth'. And you know this for a fact how, exactly? You've already done it, and run dyno tests before and after to prove it? Of course not, you've just read about it a bunch, and cherry pick that info fit your narrative because you WANT it to be true, not because you've actually proven and shown it to be true.

 

But hey, knock yourself out. Go slap in your YZ cams, and tell us how it does. I can't wait for the ride report. Don't forget the before & after dyno tests either. Your butt-dyno doesn't count.



  • GP1K

Posted August 27, 2014 - 11:50 AM

#59

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
Theodore Roosevelt

 

You are indeed a legend in your own mind, boldly going where no man has gone before, fearlessly diving into new cam territory where other mere mortals such as myself fear to tread. I am but a foolish Luddite, stuck in my ways, unable to see your genius and brilliance brought on by the vast treasure-trove of real-world experience and hands-on knowledge of motorcycles and what makes them tick that you possess. I bow down to your greatness, oh wise one.



  • beezer

Posted August 27, 2014 - 11:54 AM

#60

Put the cams in and go for a ride.






 
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