Clutch problems



159 replies to this topic
  • WillieV

Posted September 23, 2015 - 02:58 AM


ThumpMe

 

Thanks for the warning i hope it will help future WR riders but alas for me it was too late! haha I didnt drill the holes streight thru i actually driled them from the back with a 3mm drill at a angle to make a bell opening that side they are still a little restricted :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:  Lets hope they will b fine!!

 

The Lock washer was only folded one side i didnt want to take a chance with the same side and took off the used flap and bent the other unsued tab up, i checked it for any cracks and didnt find any (never means they cant be there!)

but the nut is tightened to just over 110n as per manual so i hope it will be fine..

 

Now im still waiting for a chain and sprockets to arrive before i can do a test ride and let you know how it works!!

also still waiting for my Baja regulator........

(My sprockets a new 14 front and a 40 rear, dono what Krannie or someone could maybe tell me if this is too high a gearing?)



  • ThumpMe

Posted September 25, 2015 - 10:30 AM


 I hope they are not to large now!

 

 If they are you can always take the boss back out, make certain you have bell mouthed each side of those six holes (use a countersink of about 45 degree as it is fast and easy just to do that by hand) and then after cleaning REAL good with alcohol, use some good two part epoxy (like JB weld) and fill them back up. Then you can come back in after the epoxy has cured real good and put them back in as they were prior to you opening them up.

 

 The bell mouthing of the holes BEFORE gluing helps the epoxy to stay place and not migrate in either direction. 

 

 Hopefully it will be fine as it looks like you did not make the to big.

 

 Keep us posted as to the  results and how you like it!



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 25, 2015 - 05:58 PM


ThumpMe

 

Thanks for the warning i hope it will help future WR riders but alas for me it was too late! haha I didnt drill the holes streight thru i actually driled them from the back with a 3mm drill at a angle to make a bell opening that side they are still a little restricted :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:  Lets hope they will b fine!!

 

The Lock washer was only folded one side i didnt want to take a chance with the same side and took off the used flap and bent the other unsued tab up, i checked it for any cracks and didnt find any (never means they cant be there!)

but the nut is tightened to just over 110n as per manual so i hope it will be fine..

 

Now im still waiting for a chain and sprockets to arrive before i can do a test ride and let you know how it works!!

also still waiting for my Baja regulator........

(My sprockets a new 14 front and a 40 rear, dono what Krannie or someone could maybe tell me if this is too high a gearing?)

 

W   TF ?? 

 

http://www.gearingcommander.com/



  • ThumpMe

Posted September 25, 2015 - 07:12 PM


Holy CRAP!! I missed that completely!

 

 I believe the STOCK rears are usually around a 50 aren't they? MUST  have been a typo....OR he will be able to CRUISE the single tracks at mach three!



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 25, 2015 - 07:18 PM


He won't be able to pull 5th gear with that gearing...................



  • WillieV

Posted September 26, 2015 - 03:30 AM


Hey Krannie

 

I asked the question in another thread but never gor an answer, but according to gearing commander that will only increase my 5th top speed by 31Km/h is that too much? im actually looking more to be able to cruze at about +-100km/h without the motor reving like crazy...

I keep runing out of 5th gear on our long roads the bike still had plenty power left but just no more speed left... the stock gearing is 14/50 which is top speed of 124kmh, according to gearingcomader(if im using it right i should now have max speed of 155kmh or am i beeng reeeealy stupid now???


He won't be able to pull 5th gear with that gearing...................


Edited by WillieV, September 26, 2015 - 03:31 AM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 26, 2015 - 04:42 AM


I've never heard of anyone running that gearing, so I can't tell you.

Full race bikes in Baja run 15/45, but they have major engine work and much more HP.\

If this is for flat tarmac, you should be OK, but I can't speak from experience.



  • RockerYZWR

Posted September 26, 2015 - 09:01 AM


I've run 14/44 before with no issues and a sketchy 100+ mph top speed. (that's what was on it when I got it) What's another 4 teeth....a lot, but I bet it'll pull most of it. Let us know how 120 mph on a dirt bike works out!
You want this:
http://www.scottsonl...=F&BI_ID=163849

Edited by RockerYZWR, September 26, 2015 - 09:02 AM.


  • WillieV

Posted September 26, 2015 - 12:39 PM


Thanks RockerYZWR / Krannie

 

Im just gonna try change my order @motorsport.com luckly they should still be waiting for a part that should ship with my chain and sprockets.

\better  i change to like a 47 or 48 ... ill try smaller ones if one of these dont work....

 

Ive been thinking of a stabilizer but there are a couple things in the que before i  get there :)

 

Thanks for the help guys!



  • WillieV

Posted September 26, 2015 - 12:53 PM


Krannie / ThumpMe

 

I was wondering if its not possible for someone to start a thread on this cluch mod and stiky it or link to it from a sticky..?

Seeing this thread has been hijacked a couple of times now :jawdrop:

Would just make it easier for some to find it( it took me a loooong time reading a lot of threads!)



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  • WillieV

Posted October 31, 2015 - 05:23 AM


Ok Guys finaly some feedback:

 

It works and works great! took it for a test drive about 30min ago and i can stop without the bike wanting to drive off and i can push the bike back easy while in gear and motor running!

i got a spal fan which im going to install so hopefully ill give it a days worth of abuse tomorow to check it..

 

Thanks ThumpMe!!!!!!!!!



  • Markin

Posted November 09, 2015 - 02:31 AM


Hello guys! Excuse me in advance for my bad english, I'm from Ukraine & it isn't my native.

A week ago I became an owner of second-hand (or may be even third or fourth hand))) WR450FY '09. I have many things to do with it (wheel bearings, rear shock bearings, bended exhaust pipe,) but it is running good, starting not bad and i believe it is alive. Now the most serious problem for me is clutch.

I've read this topic and also other topics concerning WR450 clutch issues, including lever-drilling mods, but this topic described mod, provided by ThumpMe, looks like real working, from feedback. I am going to do this mod, but my clutch problem is a bit different from all i've read about.

 

My issue is: clutch pull is very short and is situated on first 1/3 of lever travel. May be, the pull is a bit heavy, but the main problem is shortness of it - about 2 mm of lever travel between clutch on & off positions. The remaining 2/3 of clutch lever travel up to bar could be released without any clutch reaction, clutch is working only at the top. At the same time, clutch lever has 1-2 mms of free play. Also, I can stay on a gear with pulled clutch and bike is not moving forward, I can  start it on a gear with clutch pulled (E-start on a gear is not as easy as on neutral, but real), but the problem with short clutch pull does not allow me to play with clutch to dose it precisely when I am riding through the obstacles and technical terrain (it is 80% of my riding). Training double-clutch and whellie is also complicated with these short pull, when you cannot use clutch from little to more, just on/ off (I hope it will be clear what I am talking about).

Also, It is almost unreal to find neutral when bike is hot ans engine running, and easy when bike is cold.

 

So, may be someone had similar issue? Where should I start from? I need more wide range of clutch pull between it being engaded/disengaged. I have aftermarket zeta clutch lever/perch (not cp model with adjustable pull), new clutch cable, still dont know what plates/springs installed and what their condition is, but I think they are stock. May be, warn friction plates are the issue?


Edited by Markin, November 09, 2015 - 02:34 AM.


  • WillieV

Posted November 10, 2015 - 07:23 AM


Hey Markin

 

I dono if this will resolve your issue i think the best for you is to first open your cluch and check your plates, and springs etc.It could possibly be that all your plates are stuck together so then this mod will help.

 

I knew it would fix my cluch grabing coz when i put the cluch togther (before doing the mod) the firs start the cluch felt great as it had more oil betweent the plates and gradually got worse so thats why i did the mod so now my cluch is great!

 

Either way i wouldnt want to live with my bike without this it makes it a joy to ride!!!!!

 

Let us know when you open her up !!

 

Willie



  • ThumpMe

Posted November 12, 2015 - 08:43 AM


Markin,

 

 First thing to do is change the oil so you KNOW it is fresh, good quality, and the right weight oil, as this can cause clutch problems or make them worse. 

 

 Mine does not have a real long engagement pull either, but this mod made it so much better it is almost unbelievable. I think due to stock clutches having no holes for the oil to flow through out behind those first four clutch plates that the oil that sort of gets stuck in them heats up and can cause quite bit of the drag as well as engagement and clutch lever feel problems.

 

 I also have an '07 that worked pretty well stock but because this mod on the '03 work so well I finally did do it to the '07. Was pretty amazed at how much better it made it as well. It also has a pretty short engagement/throw, but now even though it is still short it has a much better lever feel all throughout the throw or pull  of the lever and makes it MUCH easier to use the clutch in the knarly areas. This is especially noticeable when wet, muddy, or slick out.

 

 Keep us posted as to what you find.



  • Markin

Posted November 12, 2015 - 10:50 AM


I will change the oil today (motul 7100 10w40). After my new lock washer arrives, I am going to disassemble and check the clutch and also to drill some new holes on hub. Looks like this mod is really going to solve my problem.

  • GASKICKER

Posted December 03, 2015 - 02:59 PM


WillieV

 

When I first started messing around on mine I ordered a boss off e-bay as well but I believe I paid around 35 dollars for it. Ten is real bargain. I would jump on that!

 

 I wanted a spare just in case the changes I made screwed it up or made it worse. By having one that was left stock I figured I could always go back to stock if I had to.

 

 I have since made the changes to it as well so it is ready to go should I ever wear out the one in there now. It is nice to have spare parts in stock just in case!

 

 

Would you consider selling/trading me  your spare? Ill send you mine as a core and pay shipping both ways.


Edited by GASKICKER, December 03, 2015 - 03:10 PM.


  • ThumpMe

Posted December 04, 2015 - 07:52 AM


GASKICKER,

 

 No I think I will just hang on to the ones I have. If I traded it out with you I would have to re-machine yours and I currently have WAY to many jobs lined up for the mill as it is. 



  • GASKICKER

Posted December 04, 2015 - 09:04 AM


GASKICKER,
 
 No I think I will just hang on to the ones I have. If I traded it out with you I would have to re-machine yours and I currently have WAY to many jobs lined up for the mill as it is.

that was the idea, then i wouldnt have to risk milling mine. Thanks for the reply.
Many will benefit from your info.

  • Markin

Posted December 30, 2015 - 01:47 AM


Finally, I have opened my clutch and checked it. Steel plates are not bend (checked on mirror surface), but few of them have dark stains, friction plates are good,  all of them have not less than 3mm thickness (manual tells limit is 2.8mm), no damages. Push lever, push rod look like new, ball on its place.

push rod.jpg  plates.jpg
Clutch basket had notches (not very deep, but palpable by finger tip),

hub notches.jpg  hub notches2.jpg

so I removed them with the help of files and sandpaper

in process.jpg  hub fixed.jpg hub fixed 2.jpg
Also I noticed that primary driven gear has free play  on clutch basket (noticeable when trying to shake clutch basket in hand). Manual tells there should not be circumferential free play, but i have also up and down free play. How bad is it?
I also drilled my clutch boss using the same pattern as ThumpMe did, 1 new hole in every channel where stock holes are and 2 new holes between channels. Holes size - 2,8mm. I did not enlarge 6 stock holes at the bottom of the boss, but smoothed corners with little file.
boss drilled.jpg boss drilled 3.jpg boss drilled2.jpg
I have not tried my clutch yet, because my bike was damaged at last training and I am waiting for some parts. As soon as I try it I will give a feedback.


Edited by Markin, December 30, 2015 - 03:36 AM.


  • Markin

Posted January 30, 2016 - 08:17 AM


Tried my clutch after drilling holes and removing notches on the basket, and a strange situation occured..Now it is even harder to find neutral when engine is runing, and wheel spins on gear when clutch pulled with no chance to stop it. It is also noticeable when I ride the bike - engine rpm become lower when I am on gear and stand still. It is hard to roll the bike backward when it is on gear with clutch pulled.

The abovementioned problem became stronger after I changed oil, fresh Motul 7100 10w40. Now I am trying to understand what I have done wrong. I did not have this clutch drug before the clutch mod.






 
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