2015 Wr 450



45 replies to this topic
  • revelc

Posted August 12, 2014 - 12:11 PM

#21

You'll be fine. The power stays very controllable. If its too much, you can easily detune it with the programmer.

I don't know why we see long threads discussing performance on the stock WR450s. Everyone knows they are plugged up and detuned. First steps on the 2012+s should be to install the competition ECU and remove the throttle stop bolt. There is no use discussing issues before that occurs.

The next steps to more performance are reprogramming the idle mixture, replacing/modifying the stock exhaust and then programming a different map into the ECU. After that its time for YZ cams.

This sequence of operations allows one to set the power of a 2012+ WR450F to anywhere between 20ish HP (stock) to over 50HP and tailor the throttle response to just about anything the rider desires. It doesn't get much better than that.




There isn't much info on the new fuel injected bikes in the FAQ thread.

I mean I knew the bike would be plugged up. But my WR250R would run circles around it and even in stock form it wouldn't be that much further behind the WR450F. I couldn't believe how much it was not just physically corked up but also detuned.

Where can I find info on adjusting the idle mix?

Will the YZ cams move the power band further up? I don't know if I'd want to lose out on the low end.



2014 WRR lots of mods R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F in the process of modding

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 12, 2014 - 12:44 PM

#22

There isn't much info on the new fuel injected bikes in the FAQ thread.

I mean I knew the bike would be plugged up. But my WR250R would run circles around it and even in stock form it wouldn't be that much further behind the WR450F. I couldn't believe how much it was not just physically corked up but also detuned.

Where can I find info on adjusting the idle mix?

Will the YZ cams move the power band further up? I don't know if I'd want to lose out on the low end.



2014 WRR lots of mods R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F in the process of modding

 

You are right, we need a sticky FAQ on the 2012+ bikes.

 

As far as adjusting the idle mixture, you need a Yamaha FI box.   Your bike will run cooler at idle too and start better.  It also removes some of the snap response just off idle and makes it more robust there too.  Most information on this mod are in the hard estarting threads.

 

As far as the cams go, it depends on which one(s) you get.  I bought a set of 2008 YZ cams.  Haven't installed them yet.  Don't forget that the FI bikes can use the power tuner to massage the powerband after the cams are installed. 

Even with YZ cams a WR450F should have a lot of bottom end, if it loses anything at all. 



  • revelc

Posted August 12, 2014 - 01:02 PM

#23

You are right, we need a sticky FAQ on the 2012+ bikes.

As far as adjusting the idle mixture, you need a Yamaha FI box. Your bike will run cooler at idle too and start better. It also removes some of the snap response just off idle and makes it more robust there too. Most information on this mod are in the hard estarting threads.

As far as the cams go, it depends on which one(s) you get. I bought a set of 2008 YZ cams. Haven't installed them yet. Don't forget that the FI bikes can use the power tuner to massage the powerband after the cams are installed.
Even with YZ cams a WR450F should have a lot of bottom end, if it loses anything at all.

Shit how much is the magic box?

I am having to crank it over a few times with WOT then again closed before it fires off.

I know the tuner can tame things down I just don't want to move the beef up too high for snapping through single track. I'd like to be able to blip around and not keep the revs up.

I won't lie though, I'm starting to adjust to the power and holding wheelies across the pasture. There is no going back for me now.

This is my first 450 and I'm loving it after the ECU.

2014 WRR lots of mods R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F in the process of modding

Edited by revelc, August 12, 2014 - 01:04 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 12, 2014 - 01:38 PM

#24

Shit how much is the magic box?

I am having to crank it over a few times with WOT then again closed before it fires off.

I know the tuner can tame things down I just don't want to move the beef up too high for snapping through single track. I'd like to be able to blip around and not keep the revs up.

I won't lie though, I'm starting to adjust to the power and holding wheelies across the pasture. There is no going back for me now.

This is my first 450 and I'm loving it after the ECU.

2014 WRR lots of mods R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F in the process of modding

 

Some of us have gotten the dealer to adjust the idle mixture.   That is problematic because they want $$$ and most don't know how to do it.  Go figure.   Some of us have rented the FI tool from other WR450F owners.   Others have bought a tool, Yamaha or a China clone.  I bought a Yamaha FI tool, used from a member here.  Worth every penny.

 

Some of the China clones don't work and most don't come with the right harness.

 

I don't think YZ cams are going to make the bottom end weak at all.   Its not like the WR450F doesn't have a lot of grunt there, because it does.  I'll post my comments when I get my cams installed, which may or not be a while.   I bought them because I got them cheap, $150 for the pair.  I'm going to test some ECU maps first.

 

Wanna love your WR more ?   Go ride a KTM 200xc !  Its like riding a mini bike with no suspension compared to a WR.   Sure its fast in flat tight trees.   My WR seems to easily catch up on hill climbs and such and its way easier to ride.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 12, 2014 - 01:44 PM.


  • revelc

Posted August 12, 2014 - 02:09 PM

#25

Some of us have gotten the dealer to adjust the idle mixture. That is problematic because they want $$$ and most don't know how to do it. Go figure. Some of us have rented the FI tool from other WR450F owners. Others have bought a tool, Yamaha or a China clone. I bought a Yamaha FI tool, used from a member here. Worth every penny.

Some of the China clones don't work and most don't come with the right harness.

I don't think YZ cams are going to make the bottom end weak at all. Its not like the WR450F doesn't have a lot of grunt there, because it does. I'll post my comments when I get my cams installed, which may or not be a while. I bought them because I got them cheap, $150 for the pair. I'm going to test some ECU maps first.

Wanna love your WR more ? Go ride a KTM 200xc ! Its like riding a mini bike with no suspension compared to a WR. Sure its fast in flat tight trees. My WR seems to easily catch up on hill climbs and such and its way easier to ride.


Damn the idle mix sounds like a PITA. I might leave it alone for now. The ECU helped a lot. Maybe the slip on will help too. (Fingers crossed)

Keep me updated on the cams man. That sounds like a steal.

I wish the mods would make a sticky for 2012+ fuel maps with the mods, altitude, and riding conditions.

I had a WR250R and it was a workout in the woods. I have also ridden an 06YZ450F and a KTM450EXC and I feel like the WR450F is more comfortable and refined. The WR250R weighed close to 300 pounds so the 450 feels like a BMX bike.


2014 WRR lots of mods R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F in the process of modding

  • NewfieThumper

Posted August 12, 2014 - 05:55 PM

#26

Got to ride the bike with the throttle screw removed. Ecu not in for another nine days....so I made a shorter screw the proper length of the YZ screw and voola. Big difference in the bike. You could see my grin right through my helmet. Front wheel comes up anytime your want it too now. Supper happy so far.

  • revelc

Posted August 12, 2014 - 07:22 PM

#27

Got to ride the bike with the throttle screw removed. Ecu not in for another nine days....so I made a shorter screw the proper length of the YZ screw and voola. Big difference in the bike. You could see my grin right through my helmet. Front wheel comes up anytime your want it too now. Supper happy so far.


Glad to hear you got it running better.
Sorry for hijacking your thread sir.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Q4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • GP1K

Posted August 13, 2014 - 09:05 AM

#28

There isn't much info on the new fuel injected bikes in the FAQ thread.

I mean I knew the bike would be plugged up. But my WR250R would run circles around it and even in stock form it wouldn't be that much further behind the WR450F. I couldn't believe how much it was not just physically corked up but also detuned.

Where can I find info on adjusting the idle mix?

Will the YZ cams move the power band further up? I don't know if I'd want to lose out on the low end.



2014 WRR lots of mods R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F in the process of modding

 

Yes YZ cams will move the power band up, and make it more snappy. Check out Dirt Rider (or was it Dirt Bike?) magazine article where they compared an older WR and the new WR... except they modded the new one with the same exact mods as the old, carb'ed WR (Hot Cams) and then proceeded to complain that the new bike was too snappy, too 'moto' and harder to ride in the tight stuff. They should have just left it stock with a comp ECU and remap, and they'd have been much happier.  

 

Just get the comp ECU and GYTR tuner, you can change the power delivery considerably just changing maps.

 

I got my dealer to do the idle CO adjustment, HUGE improvement in hot starting.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 13, 2014 - 10:48 PM

#29

1) I only believe half of what dirt bike magazines say when it comes to technical articles.   Remember when they tried to turn a WR into a motocrosser and said the new style swing arm would be 3 pounds lighter ?  Its really 15 ounces lighter.  Nor did they need to graft on a new triple clamp just so the headlight assembly had a tab to mount to. 

 

2) Hot cams are designed to be upgrades from YZ cams.  Going straight to a hot cam is like adding 2 steps of aggression to the WR engine.

 

3) YZ cams from different years have different power characteristics.  Some of the YZ450s were pretty tame as far as motocross bikes go.

 

4) Some of us would like a little more snap and even a bit more on the top.  Less engine braking and cooler running would be nice too.   Will YZ cams give this on a FI WR ?  Who knows.  Someone needs to try it.

 

5) The GYTR programmer gives users a lot of room to tune the engine, with or without YZ cams.  I find it hard to believe that the 2012 WR with cams couldn't be tuned to get rid of the characteristic they didn't like.  What map were they using ?  Stock ?  FMF ?  Woods ?  Slippery ?  They don't say, nor did they say that they tried any or all of them. 

 

Furthermore, even though the programmer will change the character of the engine, it won't make it breath better.  The two aren't the same, response wise or performance wise.  We've seen how choked the WR comes from the factory for emissions reasons.  The 2012 WR+ cams have less lift than previous years.  I bet the ECU and the throttle stop aren't the only emissions chokes on this engine.  I bet the valves are choking it too. 


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 13, 2014 - 10:49 PM.


  • GP1K

Posted August 14, 2014 - 07:50 AM

#30

Are you constantly banging off the limiter in search of more top end power... in the woods? I highly doubt it. What is that top end power going to do for you exactly? Make you faster in tight woods riding? I see you run 12/52 gearing, which personally I think is too low, and all I ride is tight single track in PNW mountains. I run 13/51 and its plenty low enough. I almost never use 1st gear and ride most trails in 2nd or 3rd. How much snap do you need? I can loft the front end with a whiff of throttle in 3rd gear... though with your gearing you're probably in 5th where I'm in 3rd.

 

But if you're really that fast after one year of riding that you NEED that top end power and snap, you should call Joe Gibbs Racing, they'll hire you in a second.



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  • revelc

Posted August 14, 2014 - 01:54 PM

#31

Come on man.
Putting hot cams in a WR is like putting a big turbo on a Honda civic. It would be gutless until the power band kicks in, then it would kick in and it would be too much to control.

I can't see the YZ cams benefitting the purpose of the bike either. The YZ bikes are for mid-high rpm power to get you from one jump to the next. I can't see using 6,000+ RPM on single track for extended periods of time unless you are a Trail Wizard.


Retarding your map would be counterproductive. The tuner has its limits. If your doing the Baja 1,000 go for it. But if you're not ripping through sand and wide open roads it just doesn't make sense.

It's a grunty woods bike not an MX flying machine.

If you think the cams are restrictive have the stock profile ground with higher lift and different springs put on. That way the duration and powerband don't change and the engine would breath better.


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Q4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

Edited by revelc, August 14, 2014 - 01:59 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 14, 2014 - 07:37 PM

#32

I'm not going to argue with you guys about theoreticals.  I'm going to install the cams and test them.   If the bottom end sucks and its too snappy, I'll be the first to report it. 

 

I have my reasons for wanting to play with the WR powerband, just as the rest of you have reasons for doing your mods.  



  • Jonesy11

Posted August 21, 2014 - 02:19 PM

#33

I'm not going to argue with you guys about theoreticals. I'm going to install the cams and test them. If the bottom end sucks and its too snappy, I'll be the first to report it.

I have my reasons for wanting to play with the WR powerband, just as the rest of you have reasons for doing your mods.


Plz report back. I'm thinking of doing cams and head. I have the 14 WR and just want a little more kick.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 21, 2014 - 03:28 PM

#34

Plz report back. I'm thinking of doing cams and head. I have the 14 WR and just want a little more kick.

 

Will do.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 21, 2014 - 03:33 PM

#35

Are you constantly banging off the limiter in search of more top end power... in the woods? I highly doubt it. What is that top end power going to do for you exactly? Make you faster in tight woods riding? I see you run 12/52 gearing, which personally I think is too low, and all I ride is tight single track in PNW mountains. I run 13/51 and its plenty low enough. I almost never use 1st gear and ride most trails in 2nd or 3rd. How much snap do you need? I can loft the front end with a whiff of throttle in 3rd gear... though with your gearing you're probably in 5th where I'm in 3rd.

 

But if you're really that fast after one year of riding that you NEED that top end power and snap, you should call Joe Gibbs Racing, they'll hire you in a second.

 

Can you please stop replying to my posts ? 



  • GP1K

Posted August 22, 2014 - 07:18 AM

#36

Can you please stop replying to my posts ? 

 

What's the matter, truth hurts?



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 22, 2014 - 09:15 AM

#37

What's the matter, truth hurts?

 

No.  There are lots of places I'll make use of the YZ cams.  Maybe you wouldn't, but I will.

 

I don't have the energy to argue with your controversial views on everything I post.  This is about the 10th one you've replied to.  I get that we think differently.  Please stop shoving it in my face.

 

Thank you.



  • revelc

Posted August 22, 2014 - 02:57 PM

#38

Can you please stop replying to my posts ?


He replied to your post DAYS ago.
What's the deal man? Have you been stewing on that shit since the 16th?

Let it go. This is a free to use public forum, take it for what it's worth.

I personally think putting hopped up cams on a trail bike is counterintuitive but we've all got our own ideas. If you are smiling every time you get off the bike then whatever you did to it is money well spent.

Just ride ladies!


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • revelc

Posted August 22, 2014 - 02:59 PM

#39

No. There are lots of places I'll make use of the YZ cams. Maybe you wouldn't, but I will.

I don't have the energy to argue with your controversial views on everything I post. This is about the 10th one you've replied to. I get that we think differently. Please stop shoving it in my face.

Thank you.


You need to chill out too.

Lets talk about bikes! ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1408748402.913541.jpg


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

  • Jonesy11

Posted August 22, 2014 - 06:11 PM

#40

Dd you call it a trail bike. Mines a 100 mph desert rocket.




 
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