2012+ WRs: fuel "percolating" when hot ?

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57 replies to this topic
  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 31, 2014 - 11:44 AM

#21

You're still running the 'base' map in the comp ECU. It's still a lean map. Lean = hot. Seriously, get the GYTR tuner already. You're obviously a tinkerer, and this is one tool that you can play around with to greatly change the personality of your bike's motor/power delivery. You're willing to spend the time and money etc to put YZF cams in your bike, yet you seem unwilling to simply tune your FI... why? Would  you also refuse to rejet a carb'ed bike?? I don't get it...

 

I have the tuner.  I'm doing things in steps so that I can see the effect and we can LEARN from the process.   First step was the rad cap.  Then was adjusting the idle mixture.  Now I'll play around with maps.

 

FWIW, this thread isn't about overheating.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 31, 2014 - 11:51 AM

#22

I don't know why anyone would think that increasing the pressure in their coolant system would be a good idea. The manufacturers design the system to run at a certain max pressure and put on the appropriate rad cap to keep it under that pressure. By replacing the cap with a higher release pressure you are putting extra strain on parts that were not designed to take it (gaskets, etc.). In addition, just because you don't boil as often now, doesn't mean that you aren't still running hot. You most likely are running hot but just don't know it because you aren't boiling so you keep pushing it and could damage your motor. I would bet that your starting issue and fuel noise are related to the high pressure cap.

 

Just my $.02

 

I explained the science of it in this thread.

http://www.thumperta...r450-need-help/



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 31, 2014 - 11:55 AM

#23

Most coolant systems are designed for 3x the cap rating.

So going from 1.1 to 1.6 is not an issue.

A defective cap is way more prevelent than overstressing the entire cooling system; a cap that doesn't open soon enough, or not at all.  

 I've had this happen on my WR, and it caused a split in the radiator!

 

It's really about getting back to the truck having not spewed all your coolant on a tough ride.

 

a) my radiators are bent and twisted and they are still holding 30 PSI with no issues.

 

B) I'd  hope to see a leak of some sort before an all out burst occurred.

 

c) I carry a short piece of rad hose.   I could easily bypass a radiator if I had to.   We all carry water as well.

 

d) My rad cap "relieved pressure" on my cooling system for about 10 seconds after a long, tough uphill on our last ride.  Thus I am pretty certain the radiators are up to the full operating pressure of the cap and the cap works.   Furthermore, seeing how hard the 30 PSI cap is to tighten and how easy the stock one was, I'm wondering if the stock one was defective and opening before it should have.



  • woods-rider

Posted July 31, 2014 - 12:13 PM

#24

a) my radiators are bent and twisted and they are still holding 30 PSI with no issues.

B) I'd hope to see a leak of some sort before an all out burst occurred.

c) I carry a short piece of rad hose. I could easily bypass a radiator if I had to. We all carry water as well.

d) My rad cap "relieved pressure" on my cooling system for about 10 seconds after a long, tough uphill on our last ride. Thus I am pretty certain the radiators are up to the full operating pressure of the cap and the cap works. Furthermore, seeing how hard the 30 PSI cap is to tighten and how easy the stock one was, I'm wondering if the stock one was defective and opening before it should have.


The radiators aren't necessarily the weak link in the cooling system when over pressurized. Could be a gasket that keeps the coolant out of the oil and you would't know it had failed till you change your oil or the motor seizes.

  • woods-rider

Posted July 31, 2014 - 12:21 PM

#25

I explained the science of it in this thread.
http://www.thumperta...r450-need-help/


I don't see where you addressed the issue of the added pressure in that thread.

You did mention that you run pure water with the high pressure cap so that will help you know when you are running hot because you will still boil at a reasonable temperature, just at higher pressure.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 31, 2014 - 12:23 PM

#26

I don't see where you addressed the issue of the added pressure in that thread.

You did mention that you run pure water with the high pressure cap so that will help you know when you are running hot because you will still boil at a reasonable temperature, just at higher pressure.

 

I run a 50/50 coolant water mixture.

 

I'll let you know when my cooling system fails.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 31, 2014 - 01:51 PM

#27

You know I think is has. Once we came back to camp and I was sitting next to it and heard a bubbling air venting sounds. I didnt think much about it. Now that I think about it I bet it was. The bike nevered boiled over or seemed to be hotter than normal. It was a 98F day but mostly open desert riding.

 

Could you (and others) listen for the percolating the next time you ride and also pop the tank cap and check to see if you see bubbling in your tanks, with the engine off ?  Thanks.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted July 31, 2014 - 03:19 PM

#28

Water boils at 212 , and of course much higher under pressure

 

Gasoline can boil as low as 170 degrees, and is not under pressure in your gas tank. 

 

So you can see how common it must be, with an external engine temprature of 260 being normal.



  • vlxjim

Posted July 31, 2014 - 06:06 PM

#29

Actually gasoline boil much lower than that starting at 100° but typical test show around 140 F.

 

Watch at 3:40 on

https://www.youtube....h?v=xhbkx8iFvsk


Edited by vlxjim, July 31, 2014 - 06:22 PM.


  • DonnieD

Posted July 31, 2014 - 06:32 PM

#30

Could you (and others) listen for the percolating the next time you ride and also pop the tank cap and check to see if you see bubbling in your tanks, with the engine off ?  Thanks.

Sure. Had mine on a long ride this past weekend and it was hot but I was moving most all of the time and anytime I put gas in it (about 4 times) or stopped absolutely nothing was going on. Mine is an 05 and has been jetted. 



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  • vlxjim

Posted July 31, 2014 - 08:03 PM

#31

Sure. Had mine on a long ride this past weekend and it was hot but I was moving most all of the time and anytime I put gas in it (about 4 times) or stopped absolutely nothing was going on. Mine is an 05 and has been jetted. 

Its not FI. It need to have the in tank fuel pump to see if its heating the fuel to the point that it boils. 



  • DonnieD

Posted August 01, 2014 - 04:24 AM

#32

Its not FI. It need to have the in tank fuel pump to see if its heating the fuel to the point that it boils. 

 


I suppose I should have known since the title says "2012 +" for the FI models.. 



  • DonnieD

Posted August 01, 2014 - 08:47 AM

#33

Not sure but it could be the fuel pump. The fuel pump is a motor that is running all the time. As such the fuel could be boiling off the pump. Some of the Raptor 700R's had this problem. But would also vapor lock as well. Have you ever touched a RC car motor after running for 10 mins?

I've come to the conclusion that you are right. I think it's bad.

 

And it's $261 bad at partshark. Ouch!



  • Navaho6

Posted August 01, 2014 - 01:08 PM

#34

Husaberg 570's do the same thing.  Buddy's bike gurgles for 20 minutes after we are done riding.   



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 04, 2014 - 09:09 AM

#35

Apparently other bikes, EFI and non, do this as well.

 

http://www.woodsrace...hp/t-10676.html



  • mebgardner

Posted August 04, 2014 - 10:42 AM

#36

I'll listen too. So far, my 2012 does not do this "percolating" business.

 

I'm using an IMS tank that is non-metal. This is the first summer I'm using it (tho, I have not been on it much due to wrist injury).

 

If you're using the OEM metal tank, it would be "cheap insurance" to follow Krannie's advice, and place some heat shielding around the exterior bottom of the tank.



  • DonnieD

Posted August 04, 2014 - 10:48 AM

#37

Apparently other bikes, EFI and non, do this as well.

 

http://www.woodsrace...hp/t-10676.html

I wonder if it's a bad design, bug, or bad fuel pumps?

I'll listen too. So far, my 2012 does not do this "percolating" business.

 

I'm using an IMS tank that is non-metal. This is the first summer I'm using it (tho, I have not been on it much due to wrist injury).

 

If you're using the OEM metal tank, it would be "cheap insurance" to follow Krannie's advice, and place some heat shielding around the exterior bottom of the tank.

 

Pretty sure the tanks are plastic.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 04, 2014 - 11:37 AM

#38

It has nothing to do with FI or fuel pumps.

It's all about heat. 

The WR has a large motor in a compact frame, so nothing transfers heat away very well.



  • gscx

Posted August 04, 2014 - 11:53 AM

#39



Is this the sound it's making?

  • DonnieD

Posted August 04, 2014 - 05:05 PM

#40

It has nothing to do with FI or fuel pumps.

It's all about heat. 

The WR has a large motor in a compact frame, so nothing transfers heat away very well.

I'm new to the WR's but through my research before and now I've never read this to be any kinda common problem. Do you think this happens to many people, they just don't know it?. 

 

I've been riding mine in the 90's temp range almost everyday since I got it 6 weeks ago, No bubbling, or anything and I usually sit right next to it when I park it. And remember the OP said his would do this for 15 minutes. 







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