My WR450F tight woods "racer" build.



168 replies to this topic
  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 11, 2014 - 08:36 PM


My Go Pro  mount points way too low and I'm also not supposed to share video of our rides. But here are some screen shots from an easier trail we rode this summer.  This one was dry and all below tree line.   Most aren't.

 

Its really annoying to watch the video because your natural inclination is to be looking way down the trail and yet your vision is cut off.  I can't watch it without tilting my head back trying to look up.

 

Don't ask me where this is.

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Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 11, 2014 - 08:43 PM.


  • KennyMc

Posted September 11, 2014 - 08:42 PM


The rains 2 years ago pretty much destroyed all of the hill climbs out in the Sand Hills.  Invader and all of the other longer ones have ruts running down the middle of them that makes them impossible to do.  Hopefully after a few years of wind and such they will come back.  I go looking ever year but it's amazing how f'd up they got :foul:

 

 

 

Wagon Wheel is also nice. I'm not seeing any way to pin it in either of these challenges.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 11, 2014 - 08:57 PM


Even if you can't pin it, the torque of a 450 really helps.  The acceleration does too when you do get just a little space to get a run at something.  There is a big difference between hitting the bottom of the hill, cracking the throttle and having an engine respond and having one that is off the pipe and bogs.  With a 450, especially with the YZ cam, that engine is there all the time, right now.  You give me 10 feet of tractable surface and I've just gained a bunch of speed.

 

We have climbs with big rocks like that too.  I've got the high speed backed way of on my shock and it really helps.  As does running the fork soft.  I'm not saying those hills are doable or easy, just the right set up can make a difference.

 

I think one of the big differences is the hills. There are just way, way too many trees etc here to have a hill you can just aim your bike at it and pin it.

 Who said anything about aiming a bike ?  You never get to "aim" a bike, ie take a straight run at a hill. There are always turns and switch backs and debris and ruts.  But that doesn't mean you can't pin it even on a  450.  Rail it and crack it !   The way you talk really makes me wonder. 

 

 

 

More like a tight trail that switches back and forth through the trees, rocks, roots etc as it climbs up.

 

And what about that stops you from twisting the throttle ?  The only place I can't crack my WR is when the trees are too tight to wiggle through and when its slick mud everywhere.  Otherwise there are always spaces to crack it WFO.  I might have to back off in 2 seconds, but I can still use it.  Maybe its that 12/51 gearing I run.  Even when I am going slow in the tight stuff, I can crack it.  And I don't need to be fussing with the clutch all the time.

 

 

 

Rider skill is far important there than pure horsepower, as you can't open up a big bike on a trail like that anyway, there just isn't room.

 

So what if you can't use the HP all the time.  The only determent to a 450 is a bit of extra weight.  The tires are the same, the wheelbase is the same, etc.  There are places that make you pay for the weight.   But there are places where that power and weight is golden, where you climb up or sail through crap that everyone else bounces off and spins and slides.   Learn how to ride that biatch ! Momentum is a great thing and the gyroscope built into a 450 is really nice sometimes for keeping a line.

 

Scott Summers won lots of stuff on an XR600.  Against everyone else riding a "superior" 2 stroke.  It can be done.

 

 

I know very few people that ride 450s around here, most are on 250Fs or two strokes. They just work better in the woods around here.

  That is great.  You and your friends should go ride your 250F and 2 strokes.   I love my WR.  Braaapppp.  If you lopped 20 pounds from your bike, regeared it, put in a YZ exhaust cam and tightened up the geometry, maybe you wouldn't be sitting here trying to tell us how poorly 450s work !

 

I agree a stock WR is a poor woods mount.   That is why I started this thread !  My WR isn't a poor woods mount.  Far from it.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 11, 2014 - 09:19 PM.


  • ThumpMe

Posted September 12, 2014 - 07:30 AM


 I have a buddy I ride with who put a WR250 on a SERIOUS diet several years back. He sort of went out of control! He even replaced the spring on the rear shock with a Ti one as well as Ti foot pegs! If there was a part out there that was lighter by ANY amount it would find it's way onto his bike! HE even went so far as to replace the seat cover with another one after he found out he could save THREE OUNCES!

 

 He would also look around at other riders/friends at the start of a ride and if there were several wearing tool belts would even leave his behind to save weight!

 

 He never did seem to be as tired as the rest of us at the end of the day and I can tell you when we went to load up the scooters to head home I ALWAYS liked pushing his up the ramp better than mine as his was like pushing around a bicycle!  :thumbsup:



  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 07:32 AM


Blah, blah, blah, blah.

GP1K: do you ever shut up ?

Do you ever contribute anything about bikes ?

Do you ever work on your bike ?

 

No.

 

Yes.

Yes.

 

Any more questions?



  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 07:41 AM


Um I think we have way gnarlier stuff out this way. This is not run of the mill stuff that people ride. They can't, some of it is very very difficult for an expert rider. You have to use an IRC M5B and it has to be cut or in good shape or your trapped.

 

Well like this one aptly named the Dog trap. You will notice two bikes on the bottom. That's where it starts, all are invited when the weather cools down.

 

I thought you were kinda goofing on me, so I was kinda goofing on you. I know there's gnarly stuff in CA too, it's just different than WA. But I will say when Reiter Pit was still open, it was probably one of the gnarlier technical places to ride. Lots of racers would train there saying 'if you can ride fast at Reiter, you can ride fast anywhere'. Teanaway is also super gnarly and bikes get trapped in there too when riders not up to the challenge get in over their heads. And there's Gifford Pinchot... not my vid, but check it out:

https://www.youtube....h?v=oORr8Nfikr4



  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 07:42 AM


Stevethe: gp1k will climb that with his dot tires in 4th gear. He's awesome. Yep.

 

On a bone stock TTR230 no less!  :p



  • stevethe

Posted September 12, 2014 - 08:07 AM


I thought you were kinda goofing on me, so I was kinda goofing on you. I know there's gnarly stuff in CA too, it's just different than WA. But I will say when Reiter Pit was still open, it was probably one of the gnarlier technical places to ride. Lots of racers would train there saying 'if you can ride fast at Reiter, you can ride fast anywhere'. Teanaway is also super gnarly and bikes get trapped in there too when riders not up to the challenge get in over their heads. And there's Gifford Pinchot... not my vid, but check it out:


Naw wasn't trying to poke at you.

Nice video. You know you boys got woods when they ride with a chain saw attached.

We even have woods here in So Cal. both regular ridden stuff in Kennedy Meadows and much tougher not so ridden stuff in the Piutes.

I agree with you it's always been about the rider. It's something that has been talked about for over 40 years I have known about.

MLC I am a tinkerer big time. Some stuff left secret some stuff public. However I wouldn't remove usefull stuff on my bike like the starter and kickstand.

Also there is a big difference to the quality of rideability between a big bore bike in the woods and a smaller bore. A smaller bore just is more nimble due to the power delivery.

But I do understand a larger rider riding a 450. I am not a larger rider and I ride a 450 in the woods however my little BBR 250 is more fun.

  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 08:20 AM



 

Even if you can't pin it, the torque of a 450 really helps.  The acceleration does too when you do get just a little space to get a run at something.  There is a big difference between hitting the bottom of the hill, cracking the throttle and having an engine respond and having one that is off the pipe and bogs.  With a 450, especially with the YZ cam, that engine is there all the time, right now.  You give me 10 feet of tractable surface and I've just gained a bunch of speed.

 

 

4 strokes are never 'off the pipe' and if it bogs it's jetted or tuned wrong. My WR engine is right there, right now too... with stock cams. So is my 250, just not as much power. Both have instant throttle response. IT's called PROPER TUNING.

 

 

We have climbs with big rocks like that too.  I've got the high speed backed way of on my shock and it really helps.  As does running the fork soft.  I'm not saying those hills are doable or easy, just the right set up can make a difference.

 

 

You want to downgrade your suspension just so you can fiddle with your clickers on the fly. I take nothing you say about suspension seriously.

 

 

Who said anything about aiming a bike ?  You never get to "aim" a bike, ie take a straight run at a hill. There are always turns and switch backs and debris and ruts.  But that doesn't mean you can't pin it even on a  450.  Rail it and crack it !   The way you talk really makes me wonder. 

 

 

Just commenting based off some of the vids that have been posted. Big huge hills people blast up. I get it, definitely bigger bike territory for that stuff. It just doesn't exist around here. *shrug*

 

 

 

And what about that stops you from twisting the throttle ?  The only place I can't crack my WR is when the trees are too tight to wiggle through and when its slick mud everywhere.  Otherwise there are always spaces to crack it WFO.  I might have to back off in 2 seconds, but I can still use it.  Maybe its that 12/51 gearing I run.  Even when I am going slow in the tight stuff, I can crack it.  And I don't need to be fussing with the clutch all the time.

 

 

Right, because you don't know how to properly use the clutch and try to compensate with gearing. I think that's well established at this point.

 

 

 

 

So what if you can't use the HP all the time.  The only determent to a 450 is a bit of extra weight.  The tires are the same, the wheelbase is the same, etc.  There are places that make you pay for the weight.   But there are places where that power and weight is golden, where you climb up or sail through crap that everyone else bounces off and spins and slides.   Learn how to ride that biatch ! Momentum is a great thing and the gyroscope built into a 450 is really nice sometimes for keeping a line.

 

 

Yeah and where I ride the places you pay for it are many, and the places it's golden are few and far between. Not worth the trade off. Been there, done that.

 

 

Scott Summers won lots of stuff on an XR600.  Against everyone else riding a "superior" 2 stroke.  It can be done.

 

 

Scott Summers was a freak of nature. You're not. I fail to see what his accomplishments over a decade ago have to do with this discussion.

 

 

 

  That is great.  You and your friends should go ride your 250F and 2 strokes.   I love my WR.  Braaapppp.  If you lopped 20 pounds from your bike, regeared it, put in a YZ exhaust cam and tightened up the geometry, maybe you wouldn't be sitting here trying to tell us how poorly 450s work !

 

 

Or I could just buy a bike that works better than that, right off the showroom floor... so I did. I would never do that stupid shit you did yours anyway. It doesn't NEED YZ cams at all, just FI tuning. The steering geometry is also fine as is, the bike handles awesome, if your suspension is sprung and tuned correctly.

 

I will say the diet part intrigues me though. I have toyed with idea of ditching the starter etc and installing a rekluse. But now that I have my 250, I doubt I will.... but maybe. Not ruling it out.

 

 

I agree a stock WR is a poor woods mount.   That is why I started this thread !  My WR isn't a poor woods mount.  Far from it.

 

 

And it's not an ideal mount for tight woods either. It's just not. It works ok stock, and can definitely be made better. But there are better choices out there if 'tight woods' really is your thing with a lot less mods necessary to make it work. There's a reason almost all the pros race YZFs offroad and not WRs. Except in Australia. They love them some WRs down under! Rather than trying to make my WR into something it's not, I'm going to enjoy it for what it is. Again, my DS rides are no joke.. I know you don't get that, but it's true. I don't commute on it. It never sees pavement. We trailer to the mountains and go explore, we're just not at ORV parks. But there are plenty of gnarly 4x4 and single track trails up in the mountains to play on. It's just a variety, like a lot of the SoCal vids posted... some fire roads, some double track, then some gnarly stuff thrown in too. When we trail ride, it's single track right out of the staging area until we're done riding. Maybe a little connector here and there, but that's it.

 

You see me DSing my WR as putting it out to pasture, I see it as a whole new lease on life, it's going to be fantastic in that role, where my 250 for example would feel a little underpowered for that kind of riding. It's all about the right tool for the job, IMO.

 

Until next year, when I maybe trade both in for one bike to rule them all... 350 XCF-W :ride:



  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 08:26 AM


Naw wasn't trying to poke at you.

Nice video. You know you boys got woods when they ride with a chain saw attached.

We even have woods here in So Cal. both regular ridden stuff in Kennedy Meadows and much tougher not so ridden stuff in the Piutes.

I agree with you it's always been about the rider. It's something that has been talked about for over 40 years I have known about.

MLC I am a tinkerer big time. Some stuff left secret some stuff public. However I wouldn't remove usefull stuff on my bike like the starter and kickstand.

Also there is a big difference to the quality of rideability between a big bore bike in the woods and a smaller bore. A smaller bore just is more nimble due to the power delivery.

But I do understand a larger rider riding a 450. I am not a larger rider and I ride a 450 in the woods however my little BBR 250 is more fun.

 

Yeah we got a double whammy this year with a lot of forest fires, then a storm that blew down a ton of trees. With the fires chainsaws were banned so nobody could clear trails, effectively shutting down a couple great riding areas. The ban has since been lifted and trails are cleared, but the fires seem to be getting worse lately so looks like something we'll be dealing with every summer. :lame:



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  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 09:58 AM


My Go Pro  mount points way too low and I'm also not supposed to share video of our rides. But here are some screen shots from an easier trail we rode this summer.  This one was dry and all below tree line.   Most aren't.

 

 

 

Not allowed to share videos? Gee, why is that? Are you guys poaching illegal trails or something? Why would you not be able to share vids? Makes no sense..



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 12, 2014 - 11:18 AM


I'm off to another website.   PM me if you have any questions or want to keep in touch.



  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 03:11 PM


I tried to find some vids of Reiter in it's heyday but they are getting hard to find... none of us had gopros back then so we don't have any. And it's been shut down for awhile now, so even youtube it's slim pickins. I did manage to find a few random ones...

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=giMCnq_ZkRY

 

This is the Frostbite race highlights from 2008 (yeah I know... OLD)

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=zzlw1v1fAh4



  • DRS

Posted September 12, 2014 - 03:33 PM


paul neff around minute 3:00 in the red gear and usa skunk helmet.



  • mc1hd

Posted September 12, 2014 - 04:48 PM


I'm off to another website.   PM me if you have any questions or want to keep in touch.

 

Just my opinion, thank you and no need to respond.



  • GP1K

Posted September 12, 2014 - 07:48 PM


Found some (low res) onboard footager from that same 08 Frostbite race....

 



  • Spiritwalker2222

Posted September 13, 2014 - 08:26 PM


Well I have one, and I can absolutely tell the difference in engine braking with different maps, though that's never been a specific goal for me (reducing engine braking) just a pleasant side effect.

GP1K, what did you do to reduce engine braking? Was it done with the FI diagnostic tool or the GUTR power tuner?



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 14, 2014 - 08:54 PM


GP1K, what did you do to reduce engine braking? Was it done with the FI diagnostic tool or the GUTR power tuner?

 

LMAOROTFL.  Yeah, GP1K, what did you do ?


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 14, 2014 - 08:54 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 14, 2014 - 08:59 PM


 


You see me DSing my WR as putting it out to pasture, I see it as a whole new lease on life, it's going to be fantastic in that role, where my 250 for example would feel a little underpowered for that kind of riding. It's all about the right tool for the job, IMO.

 

Until next year, when I maybe trade both in for one bike to rule them all... 350 XCF-W :ride:

 

So that is 3 bikes in 3 years ?  WR was too big and powerful.   The 250F is underpowered.   The 350 will be just right.  What happened to all that "adjust to the bike, don't change the bike stuff" ?  Instead you just buy a different bike ?  Too funny !  Not to mention, expensive.


Some really interesting threads

 

http://www.thumperta...epros-and-cons/

http://www.thumperta...12-exc-ktm-300/


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, September 14, 2014 - 09:00 PM.


  • KennyMc

Posted September 14, 2014 - 09:27 PM


So that is 3 bikes in 3 years ?  WR was too big and powerful.   The 250F is underpowered.   The 350 will be just right.  What happened to all that "adjust to the bike, don't change the bike stuff" ?  Instead you just buy a different bike ?  Too funny !  Not to mention, expensive.


Some really interesting threads

 

http://www.thumperta...epros-and-cons/

http://www.thumperta...12-exc-ktm-300/

You do know he said the 250 would be under powered for DS'ng don't you, which anyone would agree.  For any long-term road/fire road DS'ng, my 350EXC would be underpowered as well, especially since it has been re-geared to 13/50.  Fun for the mountain resort riding where the speed limits are closer to 45.






 
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