Even if you can't pin it, the torque of a 450 really helps. The acceleration does too when you do get just a little space to get a run at something. There is a big difference between hitting the bottom of the hill, cracking the throttle and having an engine respond and having one that is off the pipe and bogs. With a 450, especially with the YZ cam, that engine is there all the time, right now. You give me 10 feet of tractable surface and I've just gained a bunch of speed.
4 strokes are never 'off the pipe' and if it bogs it's jetted or tuned wrong. My WR engine is right there, right now too... with stock cams. So is my 250, just not as much power. Both have instant throttle response. IT's called PROPER TUNING.
We have climbs with big rocks like that too. I've got the high speed backed way of on my shock and it really helps. As does running the fork soft. I'm not saying those hills are doable or easy, just the right set up can make a difference.
You want to downgrade your suspension just so you can fiddle with your clickers on the fly. I take nothing you say about suspension seriously.
Who said anything about aiming a bike ? You never get to "aim" a bike, ie take a straight run at a hill. There are always turns and switch backs and debris and ruts. But that doesn't mean you can't pin it even on a 450. Rail it and crack it ! The way you talk really makes me wonder.
Just commenting based off some of the vids that have been posted. Big huge hills people blast up. I get it, definitely bigger bike territory for that stuff. It just doesn't exist around here. *shrug*
And what about that stops you from twisting the throttle ? The only place I can't crack my WR is when the trees are too tight to wiggle through and when its slick mud everywhere. Otherwise there are always spaces to crack it WFO. I might have to back off in 2 seconds, but I can still use it. Maybe its that 12/51 gearing I run. Even when I am going slow in the tight stuff, I can crack it. And I don't need to be fussing with the clutch all the time.
Right, because you don't know how to properly use the clutch and try to compensate with gearing. I think that's well established at this point.
So what if you can't use the HP all the time. The only determent to a 450 is a bit of extra weight. The tires are the same, the wheelbase is the same, etc. There are places that make you pay for the weight. But there are places where that power and weight is golden, where you climb up or sail through crap that everyone else bounces off and spins and slides. Learn how to ride that biatch ! Momentum is a great thing and the gyroscope built into a 450 is really nice sometimes for keeping a line.
Yeah and where I ride the places you pay for it are many, and the places it's golden are few and far between. Not worth the trade off. Been there, done that.
Scott Summers won lots of stuff on an XR600. Against everyone else riding a "superior" 2 stroke. It can be done.
Scott Summers was a freak of nature. You're not. I fail to see what his accomplishments over a decade ago have to do with this discussion.
That is great. You and your friends should go ride your 250F and 2 strokes. I love my WR. Braaapppp. If you lopped 20 pounds from your bike, regeared it, put in a YZ exhaust cam and tightened up the geometry, maybe you wouldn't be sitting here trying to tell us how poorly 450s work !
Or I could just buy a bike that works better than that, right off the showroom floor... so I did. I would never do that stupid shit you did yours anyway. It doesn't NEED YZ cams at all, just FI tuning. The steering geometry is also fine as is, the bike handles awesome, if your suspension is sprung and tuned correctly.
I will say the diet part intrigues me though. I have toyed with idea of ditching the starter etc and installing a rekluse. But now that I have my 250, I doubt I will.... but maybe. Not ruling it out.
I agree a stock WR is a poor woods mount. That is why I started this thread ! My WR isn't a poor woods mount. Far from it.
And it's not an ideal mount for tight woods either. It's just not. It works ok stock, and can definitely be made better. But there are better choices out there if 'tight woods' really is your thing with a lot less mods necessary to make it work. There's a reason almost all the pros race YZFs offroad and not WRs. Except in Australia. They love them some WRs down under! Rather than trying to make my WR into something it's not, I'm going to enjoy it for what it is. Again, my DS rides are no joke.. I know you don't get that, but it's true. I don't commute on it. It never sees pavement. We trailer to the mountains and go explore, we're just not at ORV parks. But there are plenty of gnarly 4x4 and single track trails up in the mountains to play on. It's just a variety, like a lot of the SoCal vids posted... some fire roads, some double track, then some gnarly stuff thrown in too. When we trail ride, it's single track right out of the staging area until we're done riding. Maybe a little connector here and there, but that's it.
You see me DSing my WR as putting it out to pasture, I see it as a whole new lease on life, it's going to be fantastic in that role, where my 250 for example would feel a little underpowered for that kind of riding. It's all about the right tool for the job, IMO.
Until next year, when I maybe trade both in for one bike to rule them all... 350 XCF-W