My WR450F tight woods "racer" build.



168 replies to this topic
  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 19, 2014 - 02:47 PM

#61

FWIW, your buddies 08 came with open cartridge forks and it was dampened and sprung soft from the factory. Gold valves are known to do a pretty good job on those suspension systems.   I'm still trying to figure out if Gold Valves/G2Rs are a good idea for our closed cartridge forks.   I might call RaceTech tomorrow and ask a few questions.

 

I feel for you with your suspension woes.  I went through that too and it was no fun. 

 

I urge you to start a thread in the suspension forum.  You'll get lots of feedback there as there are about 4 guys all working on revalving SSS forks for woods riding.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 19, 2014 - 02:49 PM.


  • stevethe

Posted August 19, 2014 - 03:29 PM

#62

I personally like the racetech gold valves and their valving. I think the owner Paul knows what he is doing.
However I have known people to have to re do the suspension because they said they want racing suspension and it ended up too stiff.

  • SoCalDirtRider67

Posted August 19, 2014 - 03:36 PM

#63

Thanks for all the help and tips. I will start a thread in the suspension forum and see what the experts have to say.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 19, 2014 - 03:36 PM

#64

I personally like the racetech gold valves and their valving. I think the owner Paul knows what he is doing.
However I have known people to have to re do the suspension because they said they want racing suspension and it ended up too stiff.

 

SoCalDR67:  Did RT ask you how you would be using the bike, ie motocross, desert or woods ?   Maybe they assumed the 2012+ WR are soft like the previous bikes and that you wanted firm damping ???



  • stevethe

Posted August 19, 2014 - 03:52 PM

#65

Thanks for all the help and tips. I will start a thread in the suspension forum and see what the experts have to say.


I think you should call Racetech and get the info straight from the horses mouth. They will tell you what to change in the shim stack if you want it more plush.

  • SoCalDirtRider67

Posted August 20, 2014 - 06:27 AM

#66

SoCalDR67:  Did RT ask you how you would be using the bike, ie motocross, desert or woods ?   Maybe they assumed the 2012+ WR are soft like the previous bikes and that you wanted firm damping ???

Yes, they have a digital valving system that you input all your info and it gives you a valving setup for your weight and riding style.

 

As far as the harshness goes, I had it with the stock suspension and i was hoping to get rid of it with the gold valve. I don't believe the harshness was from being to firm, i don't think it was soaking up the small chop and i could feel hard hits over the small stuff.

 

I reinstalled my forks last night and will try them out Friday. I really think the way i was bleeding my forks had a lot to do with the way it was handling with the new gold valves.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 20, 2014 - 07:01 AM

#67

I had the same issue with transmission of small hard hits to the bars and my front tire deflecting off stuff.  By small I mean rocks, roots and ruts.  Sharp stuff 2, 3 or 4" high.  I've more or less cured this by opening up the compression and rebound damping clickers, but that has side effects and isn't the proper way to do it.

 

Clickers open or close an orifice and orifices are low speed damping adjustments.   Rocks, roots and ruts are high speed events and the shim stack(s) should be modified in the forks to handle them.   Fortunately the 2012+ WR450Fs run a bleed stack on the compression clicker.  I'm guessing that the orifice area on the compression clicker is pretty large as far as clickers go and the bleed stack is handling a large component of the oil flow from these high speed events.  Normally clickers wouldn't make that much difference on high speed events.  Its good that Yamaha built a bleed stack into the WR fork, but for woods use things should be done differently.

 

I keep saying that I'd like to revalve my suspension this week, but I'm also of the opinion that I should only be changing one thing at a time so I know what is actually happening with each change.   Right now my fork oil is too low, so I need to put it up to the right level and do a ride on that.  I expect that increasing the fork oil level is going to increase the jolts to the bars because as the forks travel to absorb them they will generate more force via more progressive air springing from the higher oil level.  But we will see if that plays out or not.

 

And I have a set of 22mm offset triple clamps on the way here.   I should install them and experiment with a couple new handle bar locations.   Both of these should be done before I start revalving my forks.

 

I want to try to minimize how many times I pull my forks apart to revalve them.  I am going to use Restackor to try to predict what each shim change is going to do.  I believe I have enough information to start modeling the WR forks over the next couple days.   I don't have the exact piston dimensions for the WR components.   But I have 2009 YZ piston dimensions, which should be pretty close.  I'll update the simulations with WR piston data once I pull my forks apart.   


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 20, 2014 - 07:03 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 20, 2014 - 07:29 AM

#68

FWIW, here is a discussion on the bleed stack that is built into the 2012+ WR450F forks.

 

http://www.thumperta...the-base-valve/



  • DRS

Posted August 20, 2014 - 10:43 AM

#69

what re your plans for this bike once you get it complete? gncc? worcs? H&H? curious as i want to see how it does against the built woods mx bikes.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 20, 2014 - 12:00 PM

#70

what re your plans for this bike once you get it complete? gncc? worcs? H&H? curious as i want to see how it does against the built woods mx bikes.

 

Hah ! ROTFLMAO.  I'm an old(er), slow, hobby rider.  I'm just having fun.  A lot of it !  I might race the sportsman class someday, for the fun of it of course.

 

However, our weekly rides are fairly serious.  Everyone I ride with has raced and is riding a pretty good bike.  I'm just trying to keep up.

 

The terrain we ride is pretty epic too.  Lately the guys riding the flea weight bikes are finding they don't have enough grunt to make the hills or enough stability to keep speed in the rough sections.  My WR is serving me really well even if I am not racing.

 

I do think that Yamaha should hire me to work on their next WR.   They have an incredible number of good parts in their catalog.  It would be very easy to build a totally awesome bike with what they already have.    Suzuki did it with the PE175 back in the 80s.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, August 20, 2014 - 12:04 PM.


Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • DRS

Posted August 20, 2014 - 12:29 PM

#71

Hah ! ROTFLMAO.  I'm an old(er), slow, hobby rider.  I'm just having fun.  A lot of it !  I might race the sportsman class someday, for the fun of it of course.

 

However, our weekly rides are fairly serious.  Everyone I ride with has raced and is riding a pretty good bike.  I'm just trying to keep up.

 

The terrain we ride is pretty epic too.  Lately the guys riding the flea weight bikes are finding they don't have enough grunt to make the hills or enough stability to keep speed in the rough sections.  My WR is serving me really well even if I am not racing.

 

I do think that Yamaha should hire me to work on their next WR.   They have an incredible number of good parts in their catalog.  It would be very easy to build a totally awesome bike with what they already have.    Suzuki did it with the PE175 back in the 80s.

 

i still have a '78 suzi pe 250 and a '78 yami dt 175 that my dad bought new in '80.  you can build any bike into exactly what you want these days, you just have to have lots  of free time, a good shop, and deep pockets.  many manufacturers build a bike for everything/anything these days so  i don't spend much time tinkering/modding anymore.   it's too easy to lose yourself and forget why you started, when you could've just went riding...   :D  enjoy your custom toy



  • DRS

Posted August 21, 2014 - 08:57 AM

#72

how many hours have you clocked on this bike so far? interested why you are thinking already about yz cams., is it lacking in power on top or something?  IMHO all yz cams will do is shift the power from the bottom/mid, to the top.


Edited by DRS, August 21, 2014 - 08:58 AM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted August 21, 2014 - 10:21 AM

#73

how many hours have you clocked on this bike so far? interested why you are thinking already about yz cams., is it lacking in power on top or something?  IMHO all yz cams will do is shift the power from the bottom/mid, to the top.

 

I haven't checked in a while, but my bike probably has between 70 and 80 hours on it.

 

Its not lacking in power.  I like power (more is better ?) and I like to tinker.  I'm also interested in what the cams will do for engine braking, how hot the engine runs and the powerband.  Its not just about peak power.

 

As far as the powerband goes, the 2012 WR450Fs have a different head than previous WRs.   The 2012+ WR cams are lower lift too, maybe for emissions reasons ? 

 

Different years of YZ cams give different powerbands in different WRs.   Some years of YZ cams have had similar duration to WR cams, only timed differently, thus the retiming of the exhaust cam on some years of WRs. 

 

Should the powerband not be what I desire with the YZ cams, I might test them at a different timing too.



  • gooch

Posted August 21, 2014 - 10:27 AM

#74

 "I  especially like how much control I have of engine braking, etc with a manual clutch over a Rekluse."

 

 

That is a misconseption about the Rekluse. My engine braking is the same as a stock manual clutch with a EXP Core Rekluse. The Rekluse disengages at RPM's just above idle and works Great for woods riding. I can work a clutch very well but the Rekluse made things so much smoother and faster. And you can still use the clutch like normal if you want to blip it to get over something..



  • GP1K

Posted August 21, 2014 - 11:06 AM

#75

I haven't checked in a while, but my bike probably has between 70 and 80 hours on it.

 

Its not lacking in power.  I like power (more is better ?) and I like to tinker.  I'm also interested in what the cams will do for engine braking, how hot the engine runs and the powerband.  Its not just about peak power.

 

As far as the powerband goes, the 2012 WR450Fs have a different head than previous WRs.   The 2012+ WR cams are lower lift too, maybe for emissions reasons ? 

 

Different years of YZ cams give different powerbands in different WRs.   Some years of YZ cams have had similar duration to WR cams, only timed differently, thus the retiming of the exhaust cam on some years of WRs. 

 

Should the powerband not be what I desire with the YZ cams, I might test them at a different timing too.

 

FYI, you can change/reduce the effect of engine braking with the FI tuner as well. Much cheaper and easier (and easier to undo) than YZ cams. Just saying.



  • cracker please

Posted August 21, 2014 - 01:22 PM

#76

How would you reduce engine braking with the tuner?



  • GP1K

Posted August 21, 2014 - 01:27 PM

#77

How would you reduce engine braking with the tuner?

 

Advance the ignition = less engine braking.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted August 21, 2014 - 01:31 PM

#78

FYI, you can change/reduce the effect of engine braking with the FI tuner as well. Much cheaper and easier (and easier to undo) than YZ cams. Just saying.

 

Yeah.....that's like saying you will get better traction by backing off on your suspension clickers.

While it is true, it's not the whole story.



  • GP1K

Posted August 21, 2014 - 01:35 PM

#79

Yeah.....that's like saying you will get better traction by backing off on your suspension clickers.

While it is true, it's not the whole story.

 

Well I have one, and I can absolutely tell the difference in engine braking with different maps, though that's never been a specific goal for me (reducing engine braking) just a pleasant side effect.



  • stevethe

Posted August 21, 2014 - 02:08 PM

#80

You sure that rig isn't hiding a jake brake somewhere in that bag of tricks.




 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.