2014 WR450



57 replies to this topic
  • vlxjim

Posted July 07, 2014 - 03:01 PM

#21

Yeah I miss the CR and KX 500 days. My other bike is a XR 650 So i do know about wide gearing. But you would not want the WR's gears to be wider. It is set to put you and keep you in its power band. And still allow you to play with the final gearing based or your type of riding.



  • Chaconne

Posted July 07, 2014 - 03:55 PM

#22

Do a search on this forum and there's a pretty good thread on FI maps for the new WR. Currently I'm running a modified version of the 'muddy slippery conditions' map as it makes it softer on the bottom for tight trails. But yes you are correct, the 'softer' maps add fuel and retard timing so mileage suffers, which is part of why I started modifying it and now has less fuel and a little more advanced ignition, a happy medium for me. I'm turning my WR into a dual sport, so at that point I'll likely gear it taller and put the FMF map in it.. which could be considered the 'full power' map, but I found it a bit much in the tight stuff. That map would get decent mileage though.

 

Yes the WR250R has a six speed, but it's the dual sport version. The WR250F is a five speed.

 

As for KTM being more expensive... well yes and no. I just bought a 2014 KTM 250 XCF-W. It was the last '14 they had so I got it $1100 of MSRP, or $7500. On my WR, I had to buy a comp ECU, FMF pipe, GYTR tuner, remove throttle stop, remove snorkel, have dealer tune CO level, all at a cost of over $700, just to get the bike to run right and start hot reliably. My KTM? $0.00 it runs great right off the showroom floor. Stock pipe sounds good, and makes good power, no need to change a thing. There is no 'uncorking' to do whatsoever. The brakes are all Brembo, the clutch is Brembo hydraulic, and all brake/clutch lines are braided. So you are getting something for that extra money.

 

A 2013 WR250F MSRP is $7000, the KTM is $8600. But you'd have to spend $500-700 to uncork it, and then be within $500 or so of the KTM. Now will the KTM be as long term reliable as the Yamaha? I dunno... time will tell. I'd still have to give the nod to Yamaha for longevity/reliability, but the performance of the KTM is so good I don't care. YMMV.

You talking about a 2014 wr450 or something else? There were some posts I remember about 2012s and starting hot but IIRC that was some user issue. I have had no problems running or starting hot with my 2014 wr450 and I have run it in tight slow technical muddy & rocky stuff. Of course get offs and crashes are my own fault!! And IMHO a lot of the "extra features" of the KTM are not that great and the 2013 exc350 in my garage had its own problems running hot and boiling over in tight stuff. 



  • Chaos13

Posted July 07, 2014 - 03:58 PM

#23

I can't for the life of me find this fmf map? I've looked on yammys page and searched everywhere. Obviously my net skills not so good lol

  • Monk

Posted July 07, 2014 - 04:07 PM

#24

You talking about a 2014 wr450 or something else? There were some posts I remember about 2012s and starting hot but IIRC that was some user issue. I have had no problems running or starting hot with my 2014 wr450 and I have run it in tight slow technical muddy & rocky stuff. Of course get offs and crashes are my own fault!! And IMHO a lot of the "extra features" of the KTM are not that great and the 2013 exc350 in my garage had its own problems running hot and boiling over in tight stuff.


Cheaper to bolt a fan on your 350 then to bolt a 6spd in a WR

  • GP1K

Posted July 07, 2014 - 07:20 PM

#25

You talking about a 2014 wr450 or something else? There were some posts I remember about 2012s and starting hot but IIRC that was some user issue. I have had no problems running or starting hot with my 2014 wr450 and I have run it in tight slow technical muddy & rocky stuff. Of course get offs and crashes are my own fault!! And IMHO a lot of the "extra features" of the KTM are not that great and the 2013 exc350 in my garage had its own problems running hot and boiling over in tight stuff. 

 

Well unless Yamaha did something to address it in 2014 and were very quiet about it, the issue affects all 2012 and on WR450s, though not 100% of bikes are affected, and it's definitely not a 'user issue'.

 

What's not great about Brembo brakes, braided lines, juice clutch, etc? My WR's brakes are ok, I've pondered a braided line or different pads maybe. The KTM's are fantastic stock. The clutch on my WR had a super stiff pull, I put a Magura juice clutch on and it's way better than before, but my KTM's is one-finger butter, stock. I've always had to put a bunch of money into Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki bikes I've owned just to get them 'uncorked' so they'll run right, my KTM runs awesome showroom stock, no 'uncorking' required. The KTM is 50 state legal stock. WRs are pretty much unrideable bone stock, and once uncorked no longer legal in some states. So yeah they're more expensive, but you don't have to put as much money into them to get them dialed in. Six of one, half dozen of the other.... *shrug*



  • Monk

Posted July 07, 2014 - 07:28 PM

#26

Well unless Yamaha did something to address it in 2014 and were very quiet about it, the issue affects all 2012 and on WR450s, though not 100% of bikes are affected, and it's definitely not a 'user issue'.

What's not great about Brembo brakes, braided lines, juice clutch, etc? My WR's brakes are ok, I've pondered a braided line or different pads maybe. The KTM's are fantastic stock. The clutch on my WR had a super stiff pull, I put a Magura juice clutch on and it's way better than before, but my KTM's is one-finger butter, stock. I've always had to put a bunch of money into Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki bikes I've owned just to get them 'uncorked' so they'll run right, my KTM runs awesome showroom stock, no 'uncorking' required. The KTM is 50 state legal stock. WRs are pretty much unrideable bone stock, and once uncorked no longer legal in some states. So yeah they're more expensive, but you don't have to put as much money into them to get them dialed in. Six of one, half dozen of the other.... *shrug*


Let's just say KTM's aren't as race ready as most think. The only major advantages my 500exc has over a new WR is better electric start, a 6spd trans and the greatest if all, a plate right from the factory. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a WR for offroad. The one I raced was as moto'ed out as it could be and it was fast.... Considering I placed 3rd in one GP moto on it with ZERO seat time shows me how capable and versatile the bike can be for a wide range of riders....

  • GP1K

Posted July 07, 2014 - 07:39 PM

#27

Let's just say KTM's aren't as race ready as most think. The only major advantages my 500exc has over a new WR is better electric start, a 6spd trans and the greatest if all, a plate right from the factory. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a WR for offroad. The one I raced was as moto'ed out as it could be and it was fast.... Considering I placed 3rd in one GP moto on it with ZERO seat time shows me how capable and versatile the bike can be for a wide range of riders....

 

Don't get me wrong, I dig my WR, it's a great a bike. It's just not the right tool for the job for me where I ride, which is almost all tight woods/single track in PNW mountains. I'm definitely faster on a 250. Now my WR will be the dual sport I've always wanted, what my (traded for the KTM) DRZ400 could never be, a real dirt bike with a plate. One thing changed for the better here in WA a couple years ago, and that is that you can now get pretty much any dirt bike plated, and that's exactly what I plan to do with my WR as soon as my DS kit arrives. Yeah I sure wish it had a 6 speed, but I might just gear it up a bit and put a Rekluse in and call it good.



  • Chaconne

Posted July 08, 2014 - 06:17 AM

#28

Well unless Yamaha did something to address it in 2014 and were very quiet about it, the issue affects all 2012 and on WR450s, though not 100% of bikes are affected, and it's definitely not a 'user issue'.

 

What's not great about Brembo brakes, braided lines, juice clutch, etc? My WR's brakes are ok, I've pondered a braided line or different pads maybe. The KTM's are fantastic stock. The clutch on my WR had a super stiff pull, I put a Magura juice clutch on and it's way better than before, but my KTM's is one-finger butter, stock. I've always had to put a bunch of money into Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki bikes I've owned just to get them 'uncorked' so they'll run right, my KTM runs awesome showroom stock, no 'uncorking' required. The KTM is 50 state legal stock. WRs are pretty much unrideable bone stock, and once uncorked no longer legal in some states. So yeah they're more expensive, but you don't have to put as much money into them to get them dialed in. Six of one, half dozen of the other.... *shrug*

You got a pointer to those posts or issues? Like I said I remember some posts about 2012s but nothing since. Do you have a 2014 wr450? Bull on the KTMs being fatastic stock it depends on the models that are being compared and an individual's use IMHO.



  • GP1K

Posted July 08, 2014 - 08:15 AM

#29

You got a pointer to those posts or issues? Like I said I remember some posts about 2012s but nothing since. Do you have a 2014 wr450? Bull on the KTMs being fatastic stock it depends on the models that are being compared and an individual's use IMHO.

 

Do a search, not hard to find. No I do not have a 2014, mine is a 2012. Perhaps Yamaha did fix the issue, I have no idea. I just know mine, like many others, sucked ass when I got it, if stalled when hot it could take several minutes to get it started again, and no way in hell would it ever start in gear. The comp ECU/pipe/remap helped, as did setting the idle on the high side of the recommended range (2100 rpm)  but mostly it was setting the idle CO level to 8 vs the factory 0. I highly doubt Yamaha changed that idle CO level, as that's how they get it to pass emissions. Maybe they beefed up the starter? Again I'd like to think someone on this forum would have got wind of that, but who knows.

 

Well I was comparing trail bikes to trail bikes... XCF-Ws to WRs or CRF-Xs, and yes KTMs are absolutely better stock vs stock, no doubt about it. Now if you're talking say MX to MX, then maybe not.



  • Chaconne

Posted July 08, 2014 - 09:05 AM

#30

Do a search, not hard to find. No I do not have a 2014, mine is a 2012. Perhaps Yamaha did fix the issue, I have no idea. I just know mine, like many others, sucked ass when I got it, if stalled when hot it could take several minutes to get it started again, and no way in hell would it ever start in gear. The comp ECU/pipe/remap helped, as did setting the idle on the high side of the recommended range (2100 rpm)  but mostly it was setting the idle CO level to 8 vs the factory 0. I highly doubt Yamaha changed that idle CO level, as that's how they get it to pass emissions. Maybe they beefed up the starter? Again I'd like to think someone on this forum would have got wind of that, but who knows.

 

Well I was comparing trail bikes to trail bikes... XCF-Ws to WRs or CRF-Xs, and yes KTMs are absolutely better stock vs stock, no doubt about it. Now if you're talking say MX to MX, then maybe not.

No probs on my 2014 but every bike is different I suppose, other folks I know with 2013s are very happy with no such problems but who knows. I was aware of reported issues on 2012s. I know at least 2 KTMs being replaced by WRs and there are no absolutes on better with this AFAICT. There are some nice things about KTMs and there are flaws & costs. Same is true of the WR imho.



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  • 080

Posted July 08, 2014 - 09:47 AM

#31

Do a search, not hard to find. No I do not have a 2014, mine is a 2012. Perhaps Yamaha did fix the issue, I have no idea. I just know mine, like many others, sucked ass when I got it, if stalled when hot it could take several minutes to get it started again, and no way in hell would it ever start in gear. The comp ECU/pipe/remap helped, as did setting the idle on the high side of the recommended range (2100 rpm)  but mostly it was setting the idle CO level to 8 vs the factory 0. I highly doubt Yamaha changed that idle CO level, as that's how they get it to pass emissions. Maybe they beefed up the starter? Again I'd like to think someone on this forum would have got wind of that, but who knows.

 

Well I was comparing trail bikes to trail bikes... XCF-Ws to WRs or CRF-Xs, and yes KTMs are absolutely better stock vs stock, no doubt about it. Now if you're talking say MX to MX, then maybe not.

 

Mine is a 13' and I haven't had any of the starting issue's that others have been experiencing. I can start mine in gear kicking it or with the button no problem. Stock vs stock is preference to what your looking for, for racing they both need additional setup. The Wr's suspension is very soft in stock form but has much better bottoming resistance when the big hits come. The KTM's stock suspension is terrible for anyone above a beginner and is all over the place the harder you push it. Again, its what your looking for. They are both good bikes and they both feel very similar in the ergo department.



  • GP1K

Posted July 08, 2014 - 09:51 AM

#32

No probs on my 2014 but every bike is different I suppose, other folks I know with 2013s are very happy with no such problems but who knows. I was aware of reported issues on 2012s. I know at least 2 KTMs being replaced by WRs and there are no absolutes on better with this AFAICT. There are some nice things about KTMs and there are flaws & costs. Same is true of the WR imho.

 

FWIW, I just watched a video from Dirt Rider magazine about a big offroad shootout, but the vid was about the WR450 specifically. Judging from the graphics, it's a 2014, and they complain about the starting a little bit. But what mods they have done to the bike are unknown.

 

 

Well sure, no bike is perfect, and there are lemons from every manufacturer. KTM parts tend to be more expensive, and there are definitely far fewer dealers than Yamaha or Honda etc. So there's that. Do I think my KTM will be as long-term reliable as my Yamaha? Probably not, but I'm willing to accept that for the performance my KTM has.



  • GP1K

Posted July 08, 2014 - 10:31 AM

#33

Mine is a 13' and I haven't had any of the starting issue's that others have been experiencing. I can start mine in gear kicking it or with the button no problem. Stock vs stock is preference to what your looking for, for racing they both need additional setup. The Wr's suspension is very soft in stock form but has much better bottoming resistance when the big hits come. The KTM's stock suspension is terrible for anyone above a beginner and is all over the place the harder you push it. Again, its what your looking for. They are both good bikes and they both feel very similar in the ergo department.

 

Well I don't race, so that's a non-issue for me. I'm too heavy for stock suspension on anything, so a respring/revalve is mandatory for me on any bike I buy.

 

I find it interesting/amusing that you think KTMs are set up for 'beginners' when they are more focused than anything from Japan, that isn't an MX bike. I just know my KTM needs nothing but sprung/valved for my weight and armor, and it's good to go. My WR needed close to a grand in mods just to get it to start & run right, and get all the power out it. I do like the ergos of the WR, it does feel like a small bike, just a heavy one.



  • 080

Posted July 08, 2014 - 10:53 AM

#34

I never said KTM's were for beginners, their championship titles dictate otherwise. I said the stock suspension on that particular bike (13' 500 xcw) is sprung/valved at a beginners level. To go further, for slower technical riding the stock suspension works well, pick up the pace and it gets a bit busy.

  • Chaconne

Posted July 08, 2014 - 10:58 AM

#35

FWIW, I just watched a video from Dirt Rider magazine about a big offroad shootout, but the vid was about the WR450 specifically. Judging from the graphics, it's a 2014, and they complain about the starting a little bit. But what mods they have done to the bike are unknown.

 

 

Well sure, no bike is perfect, and there are lemons from every manufacturer. KTM parts tend to be more expensive, and there are definitely far fewer dealers than Yamaha or Honda etc. So there's that. Do I think my KTM will be as long-term reliable as my Yamaha? Probably not, but I'm willing to accept that for the performance my KTM has.

Fair enough. :ride:



  • DunmireD001

Posted July 08, 2014 - 11:17 AM

#36

Actually you can gear these externally to compensate for the low gearing. Try a 15 or 16 tooth up front and drop down to a 43, or 42 tooth in the rear. That should put you up in the 100mph range, it'll run 70 comfortably. And you can still have good torque in your first 3 gears.

  • vlxjim

Posted July 08, 2014 - 12:10 PM

#37

All new WR's 12-15 all use the same ECU / Comp ECU. I don't think Yamaha is bumping up the CO levels on them. I can tell you my 2012 WR starts in gear hot or cold.  95 + out side on tight 1st - 2nd gear trails with no boil overs ever (yet). But I do use a CO of 15 and my vlxjim map. I get PM's from others here that run my setup and say its the best thing they have done to there bike. I'm not saying its the best, but for most riding its great. You could run the FMF map with a 0 CO and have a hard hitting no starting in gear ride that you curse at. Have fun all.



  • GP1K

Posted July 08, 2014 - 03:08 PM

#38

Actually you can gear these externally to compensate for the low gearing. Try a 15 or 16 tooth up front and drop down to a 43, or 42 tooth in the rear. That should put you up in the 100mph range, it'll run 70 comfortably. And you can still have good torque in your first 3 gears.

 

Sure, but then try crawling through some tight single track with that gearing... not fun. A six speed tranny helps with that tons... if only Yamaha would see fit to put one in the WR....



  • GP1K

Posted July 08, 2014 - 03:11 PM

#39

All new WR's 12-15 all use the same ECU / Comp ECU. I don't think Yamaha is bumping up the CO levels on them. I can tell you my 2012 WR starts in gear hot or cold.  95 + out side on tight 1st - 2nd gear trails with no boil overs ever (yet). But I do use a CO of 15 and my vlxjim map. I get PM's from others here that run my setup and say its the best thing they have done to there bike. I'm not saying its the best, but for most riding its great. You could run the FMF map with a 0 CO and have a hard hitting no starting in gear ride that you curse at. Have fun all.

 

Hey what's your map again? I'm at 8 on my CO level, and running a cross between the FMF map and the 'muddy slippery conditions' map. As in, the fuel is set pretty much to the FMF map, but ignition is still retarded, but not nearly as much as the muddy map. So I've got back some of the fuel economy and snap, but it's still manageable on tight trails.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add, after setting my CO to 8, my hot starting issues went away. It always started fine cold, but now starts hot no problem, and in gear, which NEVER happened before. I've only boiled it on one trail/ride, and did so like 6 or 8 times. But it was super tight technical trail with a LOT of clutch slipping in 1st and 2nd gear. I've ridden other single track trails in much hotter weather and never boiled it. It's private club property, and I'm told lots of guys on big bores boil their bikes there, so that was the exception, not the rule, at least for me.


Edited by GP1K, July 08, 2014 - 03:16 PM.


  • DunmireD001

Posted July 08, 2014 - 03:40 PM

#40

Sounds like he needs a 2013 wr250r 6 speed. Then after modding that bike, you will have a great single track/ slow technical riding bike, and you will have the 6 speed for top end riding (75mph). That's the bike mototrippin rides on YouTube and it does great. The reason the 450s don't have the 6th gear is because adding that will change the gearing and take that "snappy" throttle response that we all love, and turn it into the "smooth" power delivery that the ktms are known for.




 
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