Rebound fast after suspenion revalve.


12 replies to this topic
  • Mtrain730

Posted May 05, 2014 - 04:53 AM

#1

Hey guys fc revalved my suspenion for a 180 pound novice. It's a 2012 yz 450 it has stock springs. I wanted a little more plushness and a little softer set up especially in the forks. I can say it deff is softer all around. My question is I was playing with clickers yesterday and the rebound seems very fast on the forks unless you realy turn the clickers in far. I had my buddies brand new stock 2013 too compare too mine. And with with out a revalve his rebound is much slower across the full range of clicks. Does this make sense ?

  • crb357

Posted May 06, 2014 - 05:53 PM

#2

When you say "unless you turn the clickers in really far", how far in are you going? Like 3 out or 10 out? You can't really compare your revalved stuff to stock valving. It's apples and oranges now. Just for reference, all of my previous 8 bikes have always ended being in the range of 9-14 clicks out on the rebound.

I would say the best quickest sure thing to do is call FC and tell them what is going on. They will either clue you in to your new valving or have you send it back so they can try again. It isn't uncommon for a tuner to need to do it again to get it right. If it's like 3 clicks out where it works for you, they may have made a mistake. FC is pretty good though, and very easy to work with.

Let us know what they say, I'm curious to what it going on.

  • Mtrain730

Posted May 06, 2014 - 08:30 PM

#3

let me say I only noticed how ( bouncy) for lack of a better word it was compared too my buddies bike when standing in the garage pushing on the forks. It didn't feel bad when riding but i dont have a lot of experience with setting suspenion up. I called fc and they said that that it probly feels like that because too get the plushness that I asked for it will feel like that at the beginning of the stroke so it can soak up the small choppy stuff. They said it will get progressively firmer both rebound and compression when you get farther into the stroke witch you might not be able too tell by just pushing up and down. It makes sense too me what they said. I was just on a little back yard track when I played with the clickers. With the rebound I could only really tell a difference when I got like 2 or clicks out. The bike doesn't feel bad the reason I am playing with the clickers is too try and get a little more bite out of the front end. I think for now ill just go back too there recommended settings and maybe just slightly softer on compression since the track I race has no big jumps. I have forks raised 5mm and 108 sag that was what fc recommended I start at. Any recomandation on the next rout too take too try too get a little more bite from the front? Im nervous too stray too far from there recommendations because I'm new too the race seen and proper set up. Sorry for the long post.

  • crb357

Posted May 07, 2014 - 03:55 AM

#4

Oh I see. I would add a little more preload on the shock and see if that helps weight the front end. Maybe go to 105mm and see how that feels. It is ok to stray from 108 on the sag. That is just their recommended starting point.

  • Mtrain730

Posted May 07, 2014 - 05:46 AM

#5

--

Edited by Mtrain730, May 07, 2014 - 05:48 AM.


  • Mtrain730

Posted May 07, 2014 - 05:54 AM

#6

Oh I see. I would add a little more preload on the shock and see if that helps weight the front end. Maybe go to 105mm and see how that feels. It is ok to stray from 108 on the sag. That is just their recommended starting point.

. I think I will thanks. I wasn't sure if I should maybe raise the forks a little more maybe 108 or put a little more preload in the shock. I know both are going too weight the front end a little more. You think it would be better too start with more preload? Thanks for the help.

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  • crb357

Posted May 07, 2014 - 05:58 AM

#7

Sag is pretty sensitive. It is amazing what a 3mm change will do with the sag. 3mm is about 1 complete turn. Play with it. Also, the Hi Speed Compression on the shock effects the "attitude" or ride height of the rear of the bike, which puts more/less weight bias on front end. Read up on that and get it right. I suggest that you stop messing with it in your yard. Just set aside a whole day for testing at your riding spot. Backyard adjustments never work on the track/trail.

Edited by crb357, May 07, 2014 - 05:59 AM.


  • crb357

Posted May 07, 2014 - 06:16 AM

#8

Also, adding a bunch of rebound damping will effect the compression and vice versa I believe. So when you make a big jump in settings, like from 10 out to 2 out, you kind of have to compensate for that with the opposite circuit. So it is very easy to get everything all out of whack if you just start going nuts with all the adjustments.

I would go back to FC recommended settings and stock fork height, and play with Sag first. Get it biting better. Then go to Hi Speed Compression on Shock. Then fine tune the fork with clickers, then fork height.

The fork height and Sag are "fluid" things that I adjust according to the track conditions. I personally rarely touch the fork height though once I'm happy with the initial set up. Maybe for a wide open deep sandy whooped out track I will lower them down. The sag however, I give it a bit more pre load in for tighter tracks and for more open or sandy tracks I take some out. I will also add/remove compression/rebound for slower rocky trails or sand.

Just dive into suspension tuning and learn as much as you can. Having a good set up and knowing how to chase the conditions is a huge advantage.

Edited by crb357, May 07, 2014 - 08:33 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted May 07, 2014 - 07:01 AM

#9

Most of the time when I do a revalve on YZF's, the fork rebound needs to be loosened (reduced) and the shock rebound needs to be stiffened up.  This is probably what you are seeing on your bike vs. the stocker. 

 

Never judge suspension by bouncing it on the floor in a static situation, only by how it works underway.



  • Mtrain730

Posted May 08, 2014 - 01:00 PM

#10

Most of the time when I do a revalve on YZF's, the fork rebound needs to be loosened (reduced) and the shock rebound needs to be stiffened up. This is probably what you are seeing on your bike vs. the stocker.

Never judge suspension by bouncing it on the floor in a static situation, only by how it works underway.

. Gray I want too personally ask you a question that I have wanted too for a long time. What is your opinion on the 2010-2013 yz450s with there infamous so called bad handling. Do you believe this is a capable bike And any perceived problems by your average racer can by fixed by bike set up and adapting your riding style. I am a mid pack c rider so I don't Believe I am skilled enough too make a firm statement about the handling if this bike as my only comparisons would be to bashing around on the trails as a kid. I would love too here your 2 cents. Thanks. I'm 99 percent sure you don't own one of these gen bikes from your other posts or or even if you have ever rode one. So feel free too tell me too take a hike that you have more important things too do. Lol

  • grayracer513

Posted May 08, 2014 - 02:38 PM

#11

I have ridden a couple of them, and I think they're different from the earlier YZF line, and many other bikes as well.   Apart from that, you use too many "o"'s in the word "to".  But the thing with the bike is that people expect something from it, and they get something else.  To me, it's no different from expecting an RMZ450 to be as stable at speed as an '06 YZ450F is, the YZ450F to corner like the RMZ, or any two years of CRF450 to handle the same.  IMO, while some of the difference is certainly the bike, a lot of it is in the failure or refusal of the rider to adapt to it and make it work, same as he would have to if he ditched his RMZ for an '07 YZ450.

 

One "embedded" characteristic of the '10-'13 models is the increased centralization of mass.  To see the effect this has, empty out an egg carton, then put two eggs at each end and close it.  Now "maneuver" the carton around as if it were a toy motorcycle, turning and rotating it through space.  Now move the eggs to the middle of the carton and try again.  It weighs exactly the same, but it is noticeably easier to maneuver, isn't it.  That's because the weight has been moved nearer the center of gravity.  It was done to make the bike feel lighter and more maneuverable, and it's generally a good thing.  There is a downside:

 

Let's say we assume you'll jump the bike, and let's also say that sooner or later, you'll land.  Both pretty safe assumptions.  The suspension at either end you land on first has to be stiff enough to absorb the whole weight of the bike coming down on it.  But at the same time, the same extreme centralization of mass that made the bike so easy to turn makes it easy for an obstacle that the wheel runs over to lift the end of the bike, so the suspension has to be supple enough to allow that with having the bike get pitched up at the rider.  This puts a premium on the sophistication and  setup of the suspension like never before, and I believe that's where most people run into trouble with it. 

 

As you go along, you learn more about what goes on with the bike, what the suspension adjustments change in its behavior, and how to separate the bike's faults from your own.  That's when you begin to make progress with it.  I really don't believe there's anything intrinsically wrong with the bike, and I refuse to believe they can't be "fixed", if that word is even applicable.



  • Mtrain730

Posted May 08, 2014 - 05:09 PM

#12

Do you feel the same way about the so called light feeling front end. That its mostly just different and with good bike set up and maybe a change in riding behavior compared too other models the bike can perform fine it's just a matter of set up and learning to ride the bike the way it wants too be. Ps. I will work on my spelling it wasn't a subject I got excited about. Ha ha ha the reason I'm asking these questions is because I have read all about the negativity that surrounds these bikes and not the positives. So I'm trying too pick your unbiased view of the bike rather than just get the those bikes handle horrible.

Edited by Mtrain730, May 08, 2014 - 05:11 PM.


  • grayracer513

Posted May 09, 2014 - 06:13 AM

#13

Do you feel the same way about the so called light feeling front end.

 

 

I ride an '06.  If you don't manage that bike right, the front end will slide around like the tire was taped onto a snow dish.  To me, yes the Gen3 bike feels light in the front, but it corners a bunch better than mine does. 







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