diesel oil?

Chemical Engine Oil

35 replies to this topic
  • 340duster

Posted April 12, 2014 - 09:48 AM

#21

I looked up the requirements for oil on my kids YZ85 and it has some JASO type grade requirements for the wet clutch.  I looked up Rotella T and it has the JASO correct lube requirements.  The only issue is the viscosity is 15w-40 instead of 10W-40 (would be a little thicker when cold, when warm it would have same viscosity-so I figured, no problem).  I have just started using it in my RMZ as well as both kids YZ's.  It is inexpensive for sure, plus I usually have a 5 gal pail around as I have a diesel truck.   



  • grayracer513

Posted April 12, 2014 - 02:01 PM

#22

4R isn't their top of the line, either.  But the reason that I asked is that it was once true that NONE of the Yamalube line had the capability to stay in grade for more than 2 hours, whereas I hear that their best synthetic (which is now sourced from a different vendor) is actually much better.

 

Based on lab tests, my own tests, and my experience with engines long in service using Mobil1 Racing 4T, V-Twin, and Amsoil MCF/MCV, I will continue to use those exclusively.  Price isn't that big a deal. 

 

Not saying Rotella hasn't risen to that level, because I don't know that it hasn't.  But I do know what the oils I use have done in the lab, I know how they hold up in my bikes, and I know what the insides of high-hour engines look like when they've been run on them, so saving $6 on an oil change doesn't really appeal to me if it means using something I'm not certain of.



  • crb357

Posted April 14, 2014 - 05:44 AM

#23

Rotella 15/40 since 2003 in every 4 stroke bike and in the tranny of my two strokes. No issues whatsoever. I race and ride hard, no baby riding. I also go 15-20 hrs bt changes. I did the Blackstone Lab analysis thing too a long time ago. They said I could have went to like 40-50 hrs on the sample I sent. That was good enough for me. Now I don't worry and I laugh at all the oil paranoia that exists.

I firmly believe that you can run any oil that is labeled for your bike and change it often and you will have no issues with oil related failure. So save your dough for tires and brake pads.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 14, 2014 - 06:12 AM

#24

 They said I could have went to like 40-50 hrs on the sample I sent.

 

Based on which criteria, TBN, contaminant levels?  The problem is shear stability/viscosity retention.  The other attributes on which oil is analyzed for engine use rarely have time to be a factor in the question before most tested oils fall out of grade, the point missed in most cases. 



  • yzsupermoto

Posted April 14, 2014 - 06:17 AM

#25

What bike are you putting the rotella in?

  • yzsupermoto

Posted April 14, 2014 - 06:18 AM

#26

It was what they used to call Yamalube 4R, now called "Performance all purpose". It even has a picture of a YZ250F on the bottle, but it sure didn't hold up in mine. I haven't done a UOA on the synthetic Yamalube. Rotella T is 1/4 the price of synthetic Yamalube and has held up great in every UOA I have sent. I have sent samples from 5 different oils out of my bike to Blackstone, and the Rotella seemed to break down the least of any of the ones I have sent.


What bike are you putting the rotella in?

  • KJ790

Posted April 14, 2014 - 07:55 AM

#27

What bike are you putting the rotella in?

 

I run it in YZ250F's and YZ450F's. The samples I had tested were all out of my practice bike which was a YZ250F at the time. These bikes are used for motocross only racing the A class.



  • TenCrows

Posted April 14, 2014 - 08:18 AM

#28

It would really be more reassuring to see label info on an oil telling whether it complies with API GL1 or higher, as Amsoil does.  I think that statement on the label would clear a lot of questions up, but Amsoil is the only one to have that.  Others do "mention" shear stability and transmissions in some way, but not grade-specifically.  



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  • markcjr

Posted April 14, 2014 - 09:49 AM

#29

Got a coupon on facebook for napa for buy $20 and get $10 off.   Bought four quarts of valvoline 10-40 oil for wet clutch and motorcycle (non synthetic) for $26, which came to $20 with tax.   I guess you can get a gallon of rotella for that, but if you can find that facebook coupon, you can get motorcycle specific oil for pretty cheap.



  • markcjr

Posted April 14, 2014 - 09:51 AM

#30

And, they don't take the coupon, and I just had it on my iphone cus they email it to you, so I'm going to try to use it again.



  • Yzflier977

Posted April 14, 2014 - 04:41 PM

#31

Thought I'd add my 2 cents here since every other "expert" has.  I run the Rotella T5 in my 450.  I tried the T6, but the shifting got notchy, so I switched back to the T5.  I change my oil every 4-6 hours with no issues now for close to 2 years.



  • tomjoens

Posted April 14, 2014 - 05:16 PM

#32

How about bel ray thumper racer 20w 50? Does it hold up well? I've been hearing good things about it.

  • chevyrulz

Posted April 23, 2014 - 06:08 AM

#33

Thanks a lot everyone for the discussion on diesel oils in 4 stroke motorcycles, I greatly appreciate it.

 

I ended up putting in 946CC of some Valvoline 4t 20w50 mixed with 254CC of some Lucas 10w40 I had laying around, lol....the manual said total capacity 1.2L & I got the motor nice & hot then let it drain forever, tilted it around a few times to get as much out as i could, installed a new K&N oil filter.  one of the 3 o-rings on the oil filter cover bolts was very slightly worn so I ordered a new one to install next filter change.  both oils i used are rated for wet clutch use in motorcycles and I don't plan to run my frankenstein oil mix hard, I haven't even put 30 minutes on this bike since i bought it earlier this month, most of that is idling around.  

 

Grayracer, you mentioned Amsoil & Mobile 1, but not the weight, what weight of those brands would you run in my '06 YZ450?  I don't see anything but 20w50 in my local autoparts stores as far as motorycle wet clutch type oils...I think that would be fine in the summer, but then again, isn't the 50 thicker than the 40?  & would that cause oiling issues with it not being able to flow as good through the small passageways?

 

the book is clear that i should run 10w40 during the winters in my area as far as temps around here go, so I'm strictly trying to find a good, reasonably priced summer oil as I'll be using the lucas 10w40 during winter, it's relatively cheap & available at any parts store, plus it's protected my RM250 very well through some hard riding over many years.  I'm fairly skeptical of the rotella still, but I'm glad to hear folks have had great results from using it



  • Gunner354

Posted April 23, 2014 - 08:10 AM

#34

4R isn't their top of the line, either.  But the reason that I asked is that it was once true that NONE of the Yamalube line had the capability to stay in grade for more than 2 hours, whereas I hear that their best synthetic (which is now sourced from a different vendor) is actually much better.

 

Based on lab tests, my own tests, and my experience with engines long in service using Mobil1 Racing 4T, V-Twin, and Amsoil MCF/MCV, I will continue to use those exclusively.  Price isn't that big a deal. 

 

Not saying Rotella hasn't risen to that level, because I don't know that it hasn't.  But I do know what the oils I use have done in the lab, I know how they hold up in my bikes, and I know what the insides of high-hour engines look like when they've been run on them, so saving $6 on an oil change doesn't really appeal to me if it means using something I'm not certain of.

 

 

 

Don't forget to add Redline to the list. I will only use those mentioned if I am in a pinch even though they may all be good. I have used Redline for over ten years in all types of 2 strokes and four strokes. Amazing results. Our 09 YZ450 with well over 300 hrs on it was in great condition when we decided to change the piston. Top compression ring was barely out of spec and second ring was still in spec. Amazingly the cam chain had zero stretch with no kinks. The other advantage of Redline the oil makes the friction discs swell just a little with no adverse effects thus giving an amazing clutch life with the Rekluse Pro. Over 300 hrs and the tolerances are still in range.



  • grayracer513

Posted April 23, 2014 - 08:43 AM

#35

I ended up putting in 946CC of some Valvoline 4t 20w50 mixed with 254CC of some Lucas 10w40 I had laying around, lol....the manual said total capacity 1.2L & I got the motor nice & hot then let it drain forever, tilted it around a few times to get as much out as i could, installed a new K&N oil filter.  

 

There are a couple of things here.  First mixing oil of varying grades will give you unpredictable results.  In theory, as long as the base stocks are compatible (almost all of them are), it shouln't be too much of a problem, but you really have no way of knowing what exactly you end up with that way.

 

Total capacity refers to the total amount required to fill the system after a rebuild.  The correct quantity for a Gen2 engine ('06-'09) is 1 quart without the filter change, and 1 liter with the filter.

 

 


Grayracer, you mentioned Amsoil & Mobile 1, but not the weight, what weight of those brands would you run in my '06 YZ450?  I don't see anything but 20w50 in my local autoparts stores as far as motorycle wet clutch type oils...I think that would be fine in the summer, but then again, isn't the 50 thicker than the 40?  & would that cause oiling issues with it not being able to flow as good through the small passageways?

 

the book is clear that i should run 10w40 during the winters in my area as far as temps around here go, so I'm strictly trying to find a good, reasonably priced summer oil as I'll be using the lucas 10w40 during winter,

 

 

I run 10w-40 year round in SoCal, except for the 3-4 hottest months (temps over 90 degrees all the time), in which case I run 20w-50.  40 weight will protect an engine adequately up to about 110-115 ℉, but I like using the 50 under those conditions with ball bearing engines.  Gives the gearbox a little extra help, too. 

 

What you don't understand about multi-grade oils is that the "winter" number, the one with the 'W', is the viscosity at 68 ℉, and the higher number is the viscosity at 212 ℉.  So in fact, there is no significant difference in the viscosity of a 10W-40 and a 10W-50 at low temperatures.  Both oils start out as 10 weight base oils that have been modified with long chain polymer additives to improve the viscosity index.  The VI is the resistance the oil has to thinning as its temperature rises.  The down side of a 10W-50 vs. a 20w-50 is that the former is more dependent on the VII additives to maintain its 50 weight status, and so may exhibit viscosity loss through shear sooner than the 20W-50.

 

That said, it is more important to have adequate oil flow volume than it is to have thicker oil in almost every instance, so your choice should lean toward running the 40 wt unless you approach the 100 degree mark.

 

One last thing.  I have a very low opinion of Lucas oil based on its really rather poor showing in a foam resistance test and its tendency to wind up around rotating parts like a rope.



  • chevyrulz

Posted April 23, 2014 - 09:31 AM

#36

thanks a lot for the reply, explanation, & opinion grayracer

 

 

it's often +90 around here, & rarely sub 40 degrees so I won't be running 10w40 very often\

 

 

anything else i'm thinking is rather off topic from the thread title, so i'll stop here, thanks again to everyone & sorry for kicking a dead horse haha


Edited by chevyrulz, April 23, 2014 - 09:32 AM.






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