Not a oil thread ok maybe a little

[Mtrain730]

Hey guys I have read lots of the oil threads before but I just switched too belray thumper oil was using yamalube I havnt seen too many comments on the bel ray stuff any comments. Good bad just ok it is fully synthetic the yamlube oil was a blend I believe if that makes a difference i am at least hoping its as good as the yamalube if not a little better thanks.

[cowboyona426]

If it's doesn't say energy conserving on the label it will be fine.  Aside from that I really think the only appreciable differences in the oils available today are the color of the bottle its in and the stickers on said bottle.

[adam8781]

i got over 100hours out of my 05 yz250f before i sold it. I bought it for 100$ in 4 difference boxes rebuilt it from ebay

over 200hrs our of my 07 crf250 mod before selling it

over 200 hours out of my 06 crf450 before selling it.

 

 

One thing they all had in common, shell rotella triple protection 15w 40, 5 gallon pail of it at walmart. Ive used it in every bike ive owned for years I still dont get why anyone would spend money on anything else!

 

cheers

[Gunner354]

If it's doesn't say energy conserving on the label it will be fine. Aside from that I really think the only appreciable differences in the oils available today are the color of the bottle its in and the stickers on said bottle.

Couldn't be farther from the truth!

[grayracer513]

[Mtrain730]

So gunner. If that's far from the truth any info on the thumper oil full synthetic. Or no experience. I hear a lot of guys running amsoil and a couple other brands. My circle of friends that ride is literally me and one other person. Cant find many people with opinions on the belray full synthetic even when I do a search witch isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do agree most stuff on the market these days I'm sure is decent but if some thing holds up a little better I'm willing too spend the money since I don't change my oil quite as often as some of these Guys. I only race a handful of times a year and when I ride for fun I feel oil change every 2 or 3 hours is probly over kill.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Mtrain730

[Mtrain730]

Gray. Lol. What your input. I understand if you want too stay out of the ring on this one. I read a few of your older threads and know you like amsoil and mobile 1 4t just dumped bel ray full synthetic in figured it might be a step up from the yamalube synthetic blend. I'm aware yamalube isn't one of your all time favorites.

[cowboyona426]

Couldn't be farther from the truth!

 

Well do tell.  I'm curious.

[grayracer513]

The idea that "all oils are the same", or "any good quality oil is good enough", or "you don't get anything by buying 'motorcycle oil', all of those are inaccurate to a very large degree.  The first one is completely false.  The second one is conditional.

 

The single biggest problem presented by the typical motorcycle engine to day is the transmission.  The problem is two-fold: First, multi grade oils rely on a set of polymer additives to give them the ability to be thin at cold temperatures, yet not thin out more at high temperatures.  That's what the label "10w-40" means: 10 when cold, 40 when hot. 

 

The second part is that transmissions very quickly shred the additive that are usually used in most engine oils through a process called "shear".  There are viscosity improving polymers available that can tolerate the abuse much better for use in multi grade gear oils, but they are also far more expensive than the more fragile variety, so most oil blenders that make products for automobile engines never used them.

 

The result of this has been that many very respectable engine oils will fail to last more than a very few hours in a modern motorcycle engine.  Another user here has UOA's from his own bike, showing that his sample of Rotella petro was no better than SAE 22 after only two hours in a YZ250F.

 

About 15 years ago, Amsoil, Spectro, and Maxima, all "niche" blenders in the motorcycle business, recognized this and began adding the more expensive polymers to their products, extending their usable life by as much as 400%.  Mobil1 also beefed up their motorcycle-specific products early on.  Once consumers began to realize there was a difference, the market expanded, the polymers became less costly, and we're starting to see a lot more endurance from the oils available.  Things change over time, and more of the so called motorcycle oils, and a few automotive oils, that failed in this regard have improved.  Both Rotella oils are a good example.

 

As long as you are using a reasonably high quality oil that is not an ECII oil, as oulined above, and not using one labeled JASO MB, you can get around the rapid viscosity loss by changing oil often.  By that, I mean really often.  Every two hours unless you know by lab tests or oil sampling that you can run it longer.  With an oil correctly blended for motorcycle use, I have gone as long as 10 hours on one sample that still tested with the SAE 40 weight range.  I don't normally run it that long though.  I'd rather spend the extra and do 1 or 2 oil changes a month instead of 4.

 

And then, there's this example of what good, clean, durable oil will do for you, from my own bike at over 300 hours, 4th gear:

 

[cowboyona426]

I guess I should have been a bit more clear in my initial response.  What I was meaning to say was any of the oils of a specific type (IE, engine oil, or MC specific oil) are going to be so similar that the user isn't likely to notice any differences.  Comparing an MC specific oil to an automotive engine oil is of course an apples to oranges comparison.

 

Great info as usual grayracer.

[adam8781]

Well do tell.  I'm curious.

 

so long as the oil passes the JASO MA rating it is wet clutch safe, the energy star usually means there are friction modifiers present in the oil, but its not impossible to have an oil that has the energy star but is still safe for our wet clutch motocross bikes.

[grayracer513]

JASO MA/MA2 is actually supposed to tell you more than that, but it does tell you that much.  The other features of the standard relate to anti-wear (boundary lubrication) additives, specifically either ZDDP or equivalents that were ordered out of the API SJ standard by the US EPA, and to the question of shear stability I pointed out.  The Shear stability issue was largely ignored by JASO for quite a while.

 

Another labeling "trick" is the distinction between being certified as JASO MA/MA2, and "meets the standard".  The latter may only refer to one or more or the items within the standard, but not necessarily the whole set.  You will find that with API gradings as well.