Tips for off road riding

[Chris669]

Well i went for a short trip with my new tyres which where so much better,im still lacking confidence,i hit one bit of sandy area and the bars nearly turned 90 degrees in part of it and nearly dropped me.it was half way through it,i was keeping the power on but not too fast,i just cant hit it too fast,i dont mind falling at 40kph but 60-70plus too scarey.

if i fall i wreck my bike and cant afford time of work,this is my main fear but i want to drive with no worries on these surfaces.

i know this is maybe what it takes?,i went through it again standing up and was much better ,i hugged the tank and tryed to relax my hands on the bars.

the road there and back was dirt and gravel,see pics,it felt scarey turning on the corners and my top speed was about 80kph but mostly 50-60,what sort of speed can you be safe on theses roads?Theres a road like this to my work and the limit is 110kph,i would love to drive to work but the thought of cars behind me and cruising at 60kph is embarrassing.

So my main question is what speeds and surfaces do you ride off road?what speed would you do on the pics ive shown,people say keep the power on but then you build up too much speed

Edited March 2, 2014 by Chris669

[Old Goat Ninja]

Haha, this totally could of been written by me. I've been riding street for a couple decades, but new to dirt as well. I get in the dirt, and I'm a big ol chicken lol. Nothing feels right. It's not planted like on the street.

 

So far, my tiny amount of dirt experience, I've found standing helps quite a bit. I just put some risers on last week because first time out I was bent over too much. Even just the 30mm risers I installed helped immensely in the standing department. I think I paid $23 for my risers. Worth every single penny. Out of mods so far, this instantly became one of the best. Another company, Roxer I think, makes 2" risers. I'm sure they're fantastic, but they had too many swivel points to earn my trust, so I got the 30mm (1.2") Tusk risers off of eBay and couldn't be happier.

[Gilcrf250L]

dude thats so me! Chris i myself got no experience! beleave me i sometimes put on a good show just trying! i try hitting corners like the pros! and end up going OVER the hill instead of making the turn!? then coming down hills i loose control and end up coming down to fast! and bouncing at the bottom with foot off pegs! my first time riding dirt i was trying to keep up with the boys and i think i was pushing 30-40mph seemed like i was hauling ass but i just couldn't catch up! seemed the closer i got the faster they went! my handle bars went crazy and i lost control and disappeared into the high bush lucky for me it was a soft fall!? So now that i got My crf250l [month ago] we have not seen dirt yet! dude i live in the country out here alotve dirt roads! be leave me its crossed my mind! we pull up off the road and me and my crf just stair down the path! should we do it! i end up driving away! she's not ready! i need tires and suspension! i have been doing some research on corners now and already taking notes!  coming to the corner on third-forth from a distance pull clutch drop to first then let go a bit on clutch on the turn then give it gas! right? i so wanna try it lol ill have the go pro for sure! good post chris! would really love to hear what the pros got to say on this one!

[MentalGuru]

Here is a link for you. https://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/58-off-road-riding-technique/  You will learn tons from it.

 

It's the Off-Road Riding Technique forum.  It's hosted by Dwight Rudder a 7X ISDT/E medalist and 8X AMA Natl Enduro Champion.

 

[gnath9]

A good thing to remember is that once your feet leave the pegs you have given up some control so keep them feet on the pegs ... I know it is hard as at the first sign of unbalance our natural reaction is to put those feet out ... you have to fight this feeling.

 

Practice riding slow and standing on the pegs and balance yourself around stuff ... when you are on the pegs ... your body weight and body movements can correct things very quickly but ... in that same situation with your butt on the seat and feet dragging .... you have lost the ability to quickly react and will most likely dump the bike.

 

When in deep sand you have to keep your front tire light as possible by sitting way back and if possible stand in a sitting position with your butt over the rear fender. The trick in deep sand is that YOU CAN NOT control the bike in the same way you do in the dirt ...  as it drifts thru the sand ... think in terms of driving a boat and just pick a general direction and drift where you need to be ... again once your feet leave the pegs in sand ... you are going to dump it.

 

I believe tire pressure is very important but not an exact pressure is needed ... most of us tend to run our tires too high 15-18 is plenty off road and for most in town travels. I myself run an all around pressure and am not always fiddling with them as some people do. My guess is most often I am between 12-16 unless I just aired them up to 18. Dirt bike style spoke rims with tubes tend to lose air frequently so I always give my tires a firm kick to keep an eye on them.  If they feel hard enough ... I don't worry about it. 

 

taking on fast turns in the dirt is just the opposite of sand ... you have to make the front tire as heavy as possible. Enter the turn while standing a little just keeping your butt of the seat so you are not bouncing as you are coming in fast ...  then as the turn starts you pretty much jump on the tank or as far up as you can so the front tire can dig and not slide then roll the throttle quickly enough to make it hook up and turn but do not hit the gas so hard you back swings around to far or pushing the front tire out from under you. 

If you watch the motocross dudes and see that leg stuck out way up front by the axle and their toes pointed in as to not snag the ground ... they do that to add more weight to the front not to be able to put their foot down because that will cause a dump. 

 

Simple things to keep in mind are ..... keep your feet on the pegs ... keep your butt off the seat as much as possible as your legs are most of your suspension and help in balance control more than your arms do. 

When you are doing things right you will know because the bikes does things much better and your muscles are just plain wore out .... ?

 

and as always ... this is just my opinion on things and your individual results may vary ....  ?

[Buckshot77]

Get good.....then get fast!

Take your time,ride that corner as long as it takes until your leaned over and roosting though it like you want...

Then move on to the next skill.

Add a hill into that corner..

One by one master the skills you need,then put em together and your pals will be chasing you.

[Tro1086]

 coming to the corner on third-forth from a distance pull clutch drop to first then let go a bit on clutch on the turn then give it gas! right? i so wanna try it lol ill have the go pro for sure! good post chris! would really love to hear what the pros got to say on this one!

comming into the corner in 3rd or 4th then drop it down to 1st?!?!?!?!?!  That dosnt sound good at all and sounds pretty bad for the bike!  Maybe you didnt quite explain what was in your head, but just from reading that it sounds like a blown up engine or tranny to me!

 

My only experience on this bike is with stock tires and stock suspension.  The bike can feel extremely squirley at speeds on gravel roads like the one in your last pic, with lots of loose pebbles on the road surface.  Basically feels like your riding on marbles and the bike will just kinda drift where it wants.  Iv ridden many roads like this at high speeds, 55-65mph, it does feel very sketchy but luckily I havnt gone down yet haha.

 

Gnath had a good post, you must really think of your traction and where your body weight is positioned, and determine if the situation demands more traction on the front or rear tire.  Also like he said, you get SO much more balance and control thru your feet and legs than you get thru your butt, and when standing your legs act like suspension and help absorb hits and keep you in better control of the bike.  Also the old saying "when in doubt, throttle out" can do more good than youd ever imagine!  Keeping good momentum thru an obstacle will go a long ways to helping you keep your balance and staying upright.  It may not always feel very graceful or in control but it will often get you thru an obstacle on the first try without stopping/stalling/falling over, and struggling to get the bike going again.

[Tcsglassworks]

My only experience on this bike is with stock tires and stock suspension.  The bike can feel extremely squirley at speeds on gravel roads like the one in your last pic, with lots of loose pebbles on the road surface.  

Looks for some more aggressive D.O.T tires.

i ride in trails where theres rocks, mud, roots. the stock tires are not that bad when its not muddy out. but i still have little traction compared to my old xr. ive taken the bike to some sand pits. it was alright. i had to keep on the throttle to prevent myself from getting buried. new tires are going to be put on come spring. RT rear will be mid summer

i find riding in soft sand hugging the tank with my legs gives me more control over the bike when i have the throttle open. 

[Billi Ji]

Tyres would help but the stock tyres would be ok.  if you don't lower the pressure, that dirt road will feel like marbles.  sit as far forward as you can. there's no need to stand up on those dirt roads. the problem is not bumps and stuff, it's traction on the stony hard surface. just get some advice re what pressure to try. it will still be ok on the road, just not 100+ kph on the freeway. 
same thing, same kind of surface, my KDX with full knobblies, it's not good unless i drop the pressure, it feels like marbles, like the front end is gonna go down. then i try to stop at a gas station on the way back, to pump them up. 

You don't need full knobblies, they help but the problem is experience and the tyres too hard. i could show you guys going quite fast on dirt roads with road tyres, on BMW R100GS, 90% road tyres, but they're good riders. 

[Positron007]

You should easily double what a car would do on those roads.

Take it easy though coming into tight bends, best to go in slow and power out. I have had a few near misses by going in too fast.

[MentalGuru]

You should easily double what a car would do on those roads.

Take it easy though coming into tight bends, best to go in slow and power out. I have had a few near misses by going in too fast.

 

I think some the problem it is just the loose feeling.  The bike needs to move around some, they just need to learn this.  Staying kinda loose so the bike can move helps.  Weighting the outside peg in turns is a must at speed.  I don't like standing, I sit or hover, weighting the pegs as needed.  I also try to keep the front end light except when needed.  It just take some time to get a feel for it.  You would be surprised how fast you can go on the straights with good suspension and tires.  You'll learn to love flat tracking it in the turns.  Try to learn how to slow down by sliding it out further as needed, but always come in slow(braking hard just in time counts I hope).  Practice braking hard too, it's just as important.   You'll learn how to back it into turns too, which is fun.

 

Note:  The above advise may cause excitement or pain.  Use at your own risk(or enjoyment).

Edited March 3, 2014 by MentalGuru

[Gilcrf250L]

I'm taking it all in! beleave me i am! gotta get right and smooth thats the goal! 

[eyeopenher]

With my old 1985 cr250, on the beach, I found better control being forward and gripping that tank... I'd let the rear wheel float and my front tire track... I was never taught properly though... So this is just my experience living on the beach... But, once again, for me... Weight forward, knees/legs gripping the tank, and let the rear dance and do its thing while the front was tracking where I wanted her to go... Oh, and most importantly, look where you want to go... If you stare at that gully you don't want to and up in, guess what, you'll end up in the gully... Hahaha

Looks for some more aggressive D.O.T tires.

i ride in trails where theres rocks, mud, roots. the stock tires are not that bad when its not muddy out. but i still have little traction compared to my old xr. ive taken the bike to some sand pits. it was alright. i had to keep on the throttle to prevent myself from getting buried. new tires are going to be put on come spring. RT rear will be mid summer

i find riding in soft sand hugging the tank with my legs gives me more control over the bike when i have the throttle open.

Edited March 3, 2014 by eyeopenher

[eyeopenher]

On that note I will add when crossing mud or water, I would be as far back as possible and keep that speed up... Once again. This is just me... And I am with mental. I am not a full stander.. Hahaha I hover more then stand. But I am in no way a professional. Hahaha I just felt by hoovering I had better control and used my thighs a little more in the ruff stuff...

[Chris669]

I might look for a enduro club,i seen a guy at work with a enduro tshirt on,same as when i did motorbike lessons for the road i learnt so much,i think getting pointers early on is better than doing it wrong for years and not being able to change your ways or even worse hurting yourself or the bike.

Also one of the office guys rides his bike to work,its a big enduro bike,it would be good to ride behind him going to work.

He also uses the d606 tyres!!

[Guest]

Any of you looking for basic tips (and some intermediate tips) on off roading check out Offroad Fanatic on YouTube as well.  Some good tips in there and even some that kind of rekindle some old tips you may have forgotten.  I like to watch these sometimes.  

[New2Moto]

Thanks OP for starting this thread and Thanks for all the tips! I will put them into use the next time I go out.  I have only been off road a few times now (ever!) and have experienced a few  types of terrain and the only kind that has concerned me has been sand and slick mud (feels like modeling clay when its wet).  I have not come across gravel or normal mud yet.  In patches of sand I would hover instead of sitting and give some extra throttle when I felt the front tire getting loose.  I got through but it still felt sketchy since to get through I got up to 45+ mph.

 

I also encountered some puddles of various depth and width.  The larger ones were a little squirmy but I made it though by using 'when in doubt throttle out'.. I also filled my boots with some water this way.  The smaller ones I could putter through in 1st to not get wet.  It's funny, the surface under the water seems to be more stable than the same surface after most of the water has evaporated, but still moist and slick.

 

Over all I now have put in 70+ miles off pavement it has all been super fun and the bike itself seems to make up for my lack of experience in some cases.  I can't wait to get my back tire out in the turns and feel comfortable in more terrain.  I did have a few O shit moments that got my heart racing but have only came off once and it was not that bad, just a little muddy.  I hope to mount my go pro up soon but I have been hesitant fearing it will give me the urge to try things i shouldn't be trying just yet.

 

Thanks again for all the tips, tricks and advice!

 

examples of my terrain:

 

Also, I have been riding with both tires around 22 psi.  I am heavier at 245 lbs and anything lower than 19 feels real loose to me.  16 seems nearly un-ridable on the road.  My latest ride the front was about 21 and the rear about 19.  The ride was mostly off road and I never really had any issues of unsteadiness other than from the terrain.  Any tips on psi when you are dual sporting with a heavier than average rider.  I want to be steady on both pavement and off road since my rides criss cross in and out of both dirt and pavement.  It seems I may have already found some numbers that work but wanted to hear from the pros ?

Edited March 5, 2014 by New2Moto

[MentalGuru]

 Also, I have been riding with both tires around 22 psi.  I am heavier at 245 lbs and anything lower than 19 feels real loose to me.  16 seems nearly un-ridable on the road.  My latest ride the front was about 21 and the rear about 19.  The ride was mostly off road and I never really had any issues of unsteadiness other than from the terrain.  Any tips on psi when you are dual sporting with a heavier than average rider.  I want to be steady on both pavement and off road since my rides criss cross in and out of both dirt and pavement.  It seems I may have already found some numbers that work but wanted to hear from the pros ?

 

Once you replace the tires with better ones you'll probably use a different pressures.  The pressures seem ok to me(same weight) for general use, but I would run about 16-18 psi front and rear for off road use with short road sections.  I have used way less in different tires.  I've had a rear desert tire that I ran 5 psi in and it felt great even if it went flat.  I put about 100 miles on it once when it was flat.

[Guest]

Once you replace the tires with better ones you'll probably use a different pressures.  The pressures seem ok to me(same weight) for general use, but I would run about 16-18 psi front and rear for off road use with short road sections.  I have used way less in different tires.  I've had a rear desert tire that I ran 5 psi in and it felt great even if it went flat.  I put about 100 miles on it once when it was flat.

I'm 175 and when I run the stock tires on 22psi as suggested by the owner's manual it feels like if I hit two grains of sand I'm going to go down. I've been running 20psi front and rear on the road and 17psi off road. I know we can get away with even less off road and considering my weight I could probably push it a bit, but haven't really felt the need to yet. Well, minus going down last weekend and bending my bars!

[gnath9]

I'm 175 and when I run the stock tires on 22psi as suggested by the owner's manual it feels like if I hit two grains of sand I'm going to go down. I've been running 20psi front and rear on the road and 17psi off road. I know we can get away with even less off road and considering my weight I could probably push it a bit, but haven't really felt the need to yet. Well, minus going down last weekend and bending my bars!

 

Pressures really are dependent on the tires ... My TR8's had very stiff sidewalls and I ran 15-18 in them but, was running only 8 in them for awhile only because I did not notice they were so low ... ?  

I put them back to 16 just because I ride on the street too ... we'll see what the XCMH's will require in the months to come. 

 

I did not keep the stock tires on long enough to form an opinion because they just plain sucked all the time ... 

Edited March 5, 2014 by gnath9