'12+ WR450F: Should I install a Heavier flywheel?

Engine Flywheel Weights Yamaha WR450F

61 replies to this topic
  • mebgardner

Posted February 28, 2014 - 12:01 PM

#1

My setup:

 

2013 WR450F.

Comp ECU

Various FI maps attempted (going for increasing range).

FMF Q4 pipe.

Stock gearing, stock sprockets.

Stock air filters.

 

I'm being advised by some local shop mechanics that, if I want to smooth out the "on / off" switch-like power delivery from my stock motor, that I should also consider a heavier flywheel, or a Rekluse clutch.

 

I know what the clutch is for, and I'm considering that for a different reason (I'm not yet skilled with a clutch on steep terrain, and it might help take some training time off me, at a price).

 

But the flywheel idea.  Should I consider installing that?

 

The power delivery seems very abrupt. So much so, that twice now it's darn near thrown me off the back of the cycle.

 

I'm on the bars, focused, not drifting, and paying attention.  I hit a bump, which causes my hand to "blip" open the throttle. The cycle leaps forward(!) and I'm heading off the back, suddenly, and quite unexpectedly.  Once was very, *very* close.  It happened again, and that time I was ready for it.

 

But, it's un-nerving.  I'm like, stop that!

 

Would a heavier flywheel be a good solution for me? Anything else you want to recommend (other than more training, I've got professional training scheduled and on the way...).



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted February 28, 2014 - 01:33 PM

#2

Your problem is  throttle control, not the bike.

 

 " I hit a bump, which causes my hand to "blip" open the throttle. The cycle leaps forward(!) and I'm heading off the back, suddenly, and quite unexpectedly"

 

This is soley an issue of lack of experience.

 

You need to lean to squeeze the bike, not the bars, turn the bike, not the bars, and hold on with your core, not your arms and hands.

Get your butt of the seat, or at least put strong pressure on the pegs, when you ride.

 

There is not a good reason to neuter the bike and continue with your bad riding habits, as it won't correct them.



  • Navaho6

Posted February 28, 2014 - 01:54 PM

#3

What about going to a 49 or 48 tooth rear sprocket. Might help your fuel mileage too.



  • mebgardner

Posted March 01, 2014 - 07:19 AM

#4

Your problem is  throttle control, not the bike.

 

 " I hit a bump, which causes my hand to "blip" open the throttle. The cycle leaps forward(!) and I'm heading off the back, suddenly, and quite unexpectedly"

 

This is soley an issue of lack of experience.

 

You need to lean to squeeze the bike, not the bars, turn the bike, not the bars, and hold on with your core, not your arms and hands.

Get your butt of the seat, or at least put strong pressure on the pegs, when you ride.

 

There is not a good reason to neuter the bike and continue with your bad riding habits, as it won't correct them.

 

Y'know, I can hear this. I understand you're saying "more training".  Yes, I know. That's fine, and I'll agree 'cause I'm still the "new guy" to this sport.

 

Let me say in my defense that I'm not a sack of potatoes on the seat, OK?

 

Having said that, if I'm injured or killed while I'm learning this, I'm *still* injured or killed. You get my point?

 

I am not at your level of skill. You cant expect me to be at your level overnite. I'm asking for advice if this mechanical change makes sense *for me*, at the skill level I'm at *now*.

 

Mebbe a bit of "neutering" makes sense, for me, for now...

 

I'm just asking. I also got your point, too.



  • mebgardner

Posted March 01, 2014 - 07:24 AM

#5

What about going to a 49 or 48 tooth rear sprocket. Might help your fuel mileage too.

 

Thanks for the tip.



  • vlxjim

Posted March 01, 2014 - 07:47 AM

#6

Take some timing out of the map. That will soften the hit and get you more control. Your bike is like mine. Here is my map give it a try.

 

Vlxjim Map

 

 Fuel         Timing

3  4  4      0   0   0

3  5  3     -2  -1  0

3  4  3     -2  -2  0


Edited by vlxjim, March 01, 2014 - 07:55 AM.


  • 080

Posted March 01, 2014 - 08:07 AM

#7

Couple suggestions,

- If your not riding 1st-2nd gear stuff all day change out the counter sprocket to a 14 tooth, this will smooth out 1-2-3 a lot.

- Loosen your throttle cable to have a little more play in it, or install one of those G2 throttle cams. This will help minimize the accidental throttle blips.

- The Auto clutch will probably be the best cure for lack of clutch control in the technical areas and can be adjusted to smooth out the hit as well.

 

My suggestion is to ditch the heavier flywheel idea.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted March 01, 2014 - 08:37 AM

#8

I totally disagree about gearing up.

 

Yes, it will soften the power delivery, but it will also increase the amount of stalling, and vastly decrease his confidence in the slow terrain.

 

Re-map for softer power is a  great idea.

Using the standard tuner you can install a 'mud/soft' map that will soften power delivery.

It's the easiest solution.

 

Serious practice at balance and weight placement , no matter how little, will make the biggest change.



  • 080

Posted March 01, 2014 - 05:32 PM

#9

I totally disagree about gearing up.

 

Yes, it will soften the power delivery, but it will also increase the amount of stalling, and vastly decrease his confidence in the slow terrain.

 

 

Only if he is riding slow 1-2nd gear stuff which is why I specified. Otherwise gearing up will be a benefit.



  • KennyMc

Posted March 01, 2014 - 05:37 PM

#10

Re-map to smooth out the power delivery would be my only suggestion "at this time".  Don't do too many changes at once.  Make a change and then go out and ride in an area you are familiar with so you can get a feel for how the changes affected the handling characteristics. 

 

The heavier flywheel's were usually put on the MX bikes to help deal with the constant flameouts at low speeds in the technical stuff.

 

I can't see spending anywhere between $400-$800 on a Rekluse at this stage.  IMO, learning throttle control is one of the most important aspects of riding that needs to be understood.  Learning to feather the clutch to control rear wheel spin will help you become a better, more technically skilled rider.  You mention that it might help you "take some training time off for you" in reference to steep terrain.  If you find that is the case, I would suggest a bit of a less challenging area.  Honestly, like you said, you don't want to kill yourself learning to ride.  You have a great bike that should last you a long time.  :thumbsup:

 

It would be interesting to hear what the professional trainer's you mentioned opinion is on the Rekluse for someone starting out like yourself.



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  • RockerYZWR

Posted March 01, 2014 - 06:46 PM

#11

Throttle control, clutch control, weight to the outside foot peg in the turns. If you're in slow, tight, technical areas, you should have two fingers working the clutch and you should be moving your weight, usually in the opposite direction of the bike to stay balanced and controlled.

It takes practice and patience, but your problem is most likely not the bike. Clutches are cheap - use it.

  • roiala

Posted March 01, 2014 - 09:27 PM

#12

I would try G2 throtle cam with most progressive cam (H400) as suggested above by 080. http://www.g2ergo.co...tle-cam-system/

I have one on my KTM500 and works well in situation you descriped and makes it easier to control amount of power in tight situations too.

Is also way cheaper way to go than flywheel or Recluse which in my opinnion do not even work in your problem . Moose Racing has similiar product too which is at least here cheaper and good guality too.

 

Antti



  • mebgardner

Posted March 02, 2014 - 08:05 AM

#13

Take some timing out of the map. That will soften the hit and get you more control. Your bike is like mine. Here is my map give it a try.

 

Vlxjim Map

 

 Fuel         Timing

3  4  4      0   0   0

3  5  3     -2  -1  0

3  4  3     -2  -2  0

 

I admit to having some "range anxeity" with the 2.1 gal tank.  I've bough the IMS 3.0, it's sitting on the bench waiting installation.

 

The slightly larger tank makes me more open to these type map changes that require more fuel in the number sequences.

 

Thanks, I'll try it.



  • mebgardner

Posted March 02, 2014 - 08:08 AM

#14

Couple suggestions,

- If your not riding 1st-2nd gear stuff all day change out the counter sprocket to a 14 tooth, this will smooth out 1-2-3 a lot.

- Loosen your throttle cable to have a little more play in it, or install one of those G2 throttle cams. This will help minimize the accidental throttle blips.

- The Auto clutch will probably be the best cure for lack of clutch control in the technical areas and can be adjusted to smooth out the hit as well.

 

My suggestion is to ditch the heavier flywheel idea.

 

I'm not riding 1st-2nd all day, only when I encounter canyon walls to climb.

 

I'm ditching the auto clutch idea for now, pricey and I dont learn anything...

 

Throttle cam, huh?  OK, I'll check it out.



  • mebgardner

Posted March 02, 2014 - 08:11 AM

#15

I totally disagree about gearing up.

 

Yes, it will soften the power delivery, but it will also increase the amount of stalling, and vastly decrease his confidence in the slow terrain.

 

Re-map for softer power is a  great idea.

Using the standard tuner you can install a 'mud/soft' map that will soften power delivery.

It's the easiest solution.

 

Serious practice at balance and weight placement , no matter how little, will make the biggest change.

 

Map change, no gear changing for now, and practice, practice, practice. Yup, I can "live" with these ideas <grin>.



  • mebgardner

Posted March 02, 2014 - 08:20 AM

#16

Re-map to smooth out the power delivery would be my only suggestion "at this time".  Don't do too many changes at once.  Make a change and then go out and ride in an area you are familiar with so you can get a feel for how the changes affected the handling characteristics. 

 

The heavier flywheel's were usually put on the MX bikes to help deal with the constant flameouts at low speeds in the technical stuff.

 

I can't see spending anywhere between $400-$800 on a Rekluse at this stage.  IMO, learning throttle control is one of the most important aspects of riding that needs to be understood.  Learning to feather the clutch to control rear wheel spin will help you become a better, more technically skilled rider.  You mention that it might help you "take some training time off for you" in reference to steep terrain.  If you find that is the case, I would suggest a bit of a less challenging area.  Honestly, like you said, you don't want to kill yourself learning to ride.  You have a great bike that should last you a long time.  :thumbsup:

 

It would be interesting to hear what the professional trainer's you mentioned opinion is on the Rekluse for someone starting out like yourself.

 

Not too many changes at same time. Re-map for smooth power. Forget Rekluse for now. Forget heavier flywheel. Learn feather Clutch control. Learn Throttle Control. Use less challenging areas to practice. Dont kill myself <grin>

 

OK, lots of good stuff here. Especially that last part <laughter>.

 

I dont know if you guys recall when you were learning this stuff, but let me remind you, its *hard*. You remember learning two finger clutch control? When terrified?  I've got the stock clutch perch and control handle. Pulling that thing with fine control when scared is tough. I've begun working that aspect of my hands by curling weights in my fingers at the gym.  Between that, and some other moves helping me pick the durn thing up after a get off, well, I have a whole new gym regime!

 

Thanks very much for your time and advice, all of you.



  • mebgardner

Posted March 02, 2014 - 08:24 AM

#17

I would try G2 throtle cam with most progressive cam (H400) as suggested above by 080. http://www.g2ergo.co...tle-cam-system/

I have one on my KTM500 and works well in situation you descriped and makes it easier to control amount of power in tight situations too.

Is also way cheaper way to go than flywheel or Recluse which in my opinnion do not even work in your problem . Moose Racing has similiar product too which is at least here cheaper and good guality too.

 

Antti

 

2nd vote on G2 throttle cam, use most progressive cam.

 

I'll post what the pro training guys say about the Rekluse when I see them (planning this spring, may push to fall: Desert Palms CA area).



  • KennyMc

Posted March 02, 2014 - 08:34 AM

#18

2nd vote on G2 throttle cam, use most progressive cam.
 
I'll post what the pro training guys say about the Rekluse when I see them (planning this spring, may push to fall: Desert Palms CA area).

Motoventures??

  • KennyMc

Posted March 02, 2014 - 08:48 AM

#19

You asked a question and are getting great responses. The problem with writing is it is hard to convey your suggestion in a concise way without coming across a bit aloof. Don't take it personally or as a personal shot at your "man card". I say this as some of your responses are a bit defensive. People willing to spend their time to help a "newer" rider won't take too kindly to being scolded for their delivery method or tone as tone is hard to convey in writing as well.

Take it for what it's worth, off my soapbox :D

Side note, speaking of keeping yourself alive and well, you never mentioned protective gear that you wear. :thinking:

  • mebgardner

Posted March 02, 2014 - 12:55 PM

#20

Motoventures??

 

Yes, correct.







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