09 vs 10-13 vs 14 YZ450F differences?



65 replies to this topic
  • crb357

Posted February 14, 2014 - 12:32 PM

#1

Hello, I've been lurking for a while. Only YZ experience I've had is a 03 YZ250F which didn't work out for my large size, 6'2 230. I also had an 06 YZ250 that vibrated too much for me. I've been on enduro bikes for a while now. 2 stroke 250/300's and KTM/WR 450's. I'm looking at YZ450's to try next for a Enduro /HS race bike. I'm a fast B/slow A for ability level. Really like the motor on my WR450, so hoping that motor in a lighter and better suspended package w/Rekluse will be good for me. Few questions for you.

1. For an Enduro/Harescramble/Desert race bike, how does the 09 YZ450 with good exhaust compare to the 10-13, and now 14 YZ450?

2. I see several low hr 09's in the $3000's, can the 14 possibly be $5k better?

3. With the FI, how tame or tight woods friendly can you make the 10+ YZ450?

I'm leaning towards getting an 09 bc it's cheaper to get into, just to see if I care for the short ratio tranny on single track. I didn't like the short ratio tranny on previous bikes, but I have a EXP 3.0 in my WR and that has to change things on a YZ450. Can run stock or maybe even 1 tooth taller to take away the herky jerk. The EXP in my WR fits the 09 YZ450 too. So that is a bonus or the 09.

However, if the 14 YZ450 is worth it and will make me faster right off the bat, I can go that route, but also I have no issue riding an older model that is just as quick.

Share your thoughts please.

Thanks

  • suzuki son of a bitch

Posted February 14, 2014 - 01:47 PM

#2

The new yz450 is only mostly for track. There is no option for desert tank for it, as you said you ride enduros and hare scrambles. Older yami 450s are really good. So its up to you older carb 450's or newer efi 450's. I would look at the 2010 to 2013 yz450's efi and desert tank option.

  • suzuki son of a bitch

Posted February 14, 2014 - 01:52 PM

#3

If the deal is good for a 09 and clean you should buy it. The new bikes arent a huge power difference. So 09's are good. I did heard the 08 and 09 stock pipe suck so an aftermarket pipe and jetting and boom you got yourself a screaming bike.

  • grayracer513

Posted February 14, 2014 - 02:40 PM

#4

Actually, the '14 is a huge power difference.  Dyno readings on the bike are stratospheric.  That doesn't make them a good woods bike. 

 

The '09 is apt to be the most adaptable to the role for the reasons stated among others, but you might be ahead to consider a WR450 instead.  The '12-'14 models with the new frame and EFI in particular.  The transmissions and electrical systems are better setups on the WR's, and the suspension is more suited to the role as it comes issued. 



  • crb357

Posted February 14, 2014 - 03:52 PM

#5

The new WR is still too heavy and I do not need lights. I have the 09 WR plated with lights for DS and don't want another one. I want to try a YZ this time. The suspension will be rebuilt for me on any bike I get anyway so how they come stock isn't important to me.

I get the feeling that in the woods, a well dialed 09 w/ pipe, FWW, Rekluse,wouldn't be giving up much to the new FI models. It would actually be lighter I guess. Also would have better choices for larger tank.

  • grayracer513

Posted February 14, 2014 - 04:01 PM

#6

I run an '06 YZ450 in desert races, so I'm familiar with its strengths and shortcomings.  Along with the Rekluse and flywheel, and of course, the larger tank, the big mod was the hybrid gearbox.  I replaced 4th and 5th with the gear sets from a WR.  With the extra top end reach, I was able to add two teeth to the rear to deal with the tight stuff a little better without loosing any practical advantage up top.  The thing is great, especially when you can let it stretch its legs, but it's a lot of work in the close in stuff.  Been thinking of a new WR for a bit now.



  • crb357

Posted February 14, 2014 - 09:04 PM

#7

Full WR gear swap is probably something I want to do. I believe Charlie Mullins had a WR tranny in his 09 that he won the 2010 NEPG title with.

I could just strip down the 09 WR, as it is a fairly capable bike, but then it is a PIA to get back into DS trim. It also would still have that fork. So I just want an uncompromised race bike and leave the WR ready to do it's job when called upon.

Or get a 12+ WR to strip down into a full time racer. It is close to 260 with out fuel, compared to about 230 for 09 YZ450 w/o fuel. 30lbs is a lot to pull off. I can see getting the WR to 245, but not to 230.

I think YZ with WR gear set is the optimum platform for a racer out of the two. I'm sold on the YZ, just need to figure out what year I want. I like the way my WR front end handles, so I'm leery of the 2010+ bikes, and liking the idea of a 2009 more and more.

  • grayracer513

Posted February 14, 2014 - 09:51 PM

#8

If wheel interchangeability is a big deal, you might want an '08.  The swing arm change on the '09 requires a 25mm axle, and no practical means of adapting the '08 and earlier 22mm wheel/axle has yet been found.  The '08 can use the wheels off your WR, should that come up.  The '09 couldn't use the rear. 

 

Otherwise, the two bikes are nearly identical.



  • nsdqnav

Posted February 15, 2014 - 03:48 AM

#9

Singletrack,

 

I just picked up a 2011 450 to build as a woods racer. My background is former A level Motocrosser who just got back into riding 2 years ago. My other ride is a 2011 150 xc KTM which helped me get my riding skills up after being out of it for almost 28 years.

 

I chose the 11 450 because of the FI and the engine design.  My riding buddy has a 570 Husaberg and its a tractor in the woods.  Handles great and plugs along with a Rekluse. There are also a ton of low hour 450 motocross bikes in our area because guys get them and realize they got too much and they sit in their garages unused till they sell them.

 

The 11 YZ450 I bought looked like it had 10 hours.  I could not find any low hour woods bikes because frankly guys who buy them know what they are getting and ride them. I wanted a low hour used bike because 4 strokes can be much more expensive than 2 strokes and I wanted a motor that was not used and abused.  Also wanted the ease of FI vs carb.  I do like the high mounted air filter for woods and safely tucked in exhaust.

 

I think it handles great. Power is very strong but I have a Rekluse coming to prevent stalls. This is not a tight woods bike but can do small sections of it with the best if you are good on the clutch or have a Rekluse. It really shines in the open and fast stuff.  Mass centralization works...bike handles great and is stable at speed. All the bashing of this bike has been MX specific...for woods this thing is very capable in the right hands.

 

My build is going well so far and here is what I have done:

 

1. Acerbis 2.4 tank black. Wanted to have range and not carry gas. Very easy to swap out from stock or swap back for occasional MX.

 

2. Akropovic slip on exhaust.  Made it a little quieter and spark arrestor to be woods legal. Seems to smooth out the power over the stock and make it less abrupt.

 

3. Devol skid plate and Radiator guards.  MX bikes have thinner cases usually...wanted full protection.

 

4. KIckstand, Barkbusters, Graphics and an hour meter to track maintenance.

 

5. Keeping the 19 inch on back but running extra heavy duty tube so I can run 10 psi in the woods. Might go with 18 eventually.

 

6. Have a Rekluse 3.0 on order.  It will stall like all 4 strokes and takes 2-3 kicks to get going again sometimes 4-5. You can use the stock clutch but you have to be real good in the super tight stuff.

 

7. Stock chain is garbage like on most MX bikes.  I like the RMATV final drive gold x-rings.

 

I paid $4000 for the bike and have invested $1200 for a total off $5200 for an almost new woods racer.  A new bike wood be at least $7500-$8500 and the 11 has a lot of design features like the new YZ450.

 

Might invest in the FI tuner but going to ride with the Rekluse and see how it is.  It seems a lot of guys put a woods map and like it.  I enjoy the hit down low as it suits my riding style. I like that the FI is easy to remap and customize.

 

The MX platforms handle better and are a lot lighter plus you can run an occasional MX race. If your a competent rider the power can be managed and a 450 will run at a lot lower rpm making the engine last a lot longer.  

 

Hope that helps and good luck.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • suzuki son of a bitch

Posted February 15, 2014 - 10:26 AM

#10

attachicon.gifphoto.JPGSingletrack,

I just picked up a 2011 450 to build as a woods racer. My background is former A level Motocrosser who just got back into riding 2 years ago. My other ride is a 2011 150 xc KTM which helped me get my riding skills up after being out of it for almost 28 years.

I chose the 11 450 because of the FI and the engine design. My riding buddy has a 570 Husaberg and its a tractor in the woods. Handles great and plugs along with a Rekluse. There are also a ton of low hour 450 motocross bikes in our area because guys get them and realize they got too much and they sit in their garages unused till they sell them.

The 11 YZ450 I bought looked like it had 10 hours. I could not find any low hour woods bikes because frankly guys who buy them know what they are getting and ride them. I wanted a low hour used bike because 4 strokes can be much more expensive than 2 strokes and I wanted a motor that was not used and abused. Also wanted the ease of FI vs carb. I do like the high mounted air filter for woods and safely tucked in exhaust.

I think it handles great. Power is very strong but I have a Rekluse coming to prevent stalls. This is not a tight woods bike but can do small sections of it with the best if you are good on the clutch or have a Rekluse. It really shines in the open and fast stuff. Mass centralization works...bike handles great and is stable at speed. All the bashing of this bike has been MX specific...for woods this thing is very capable in the right hands.

My build is going well so far and here is what I have done:

1. Acerbis 2.4 tank black. Wanted to have range and not carry gas. Very easy to swap out from stock or swap back for occasional MX.

2. Akropovic slip on exhaust. Made it a little quieter and spark arrestor to be woods legal. Seems to smooth out the power over the stock and make it less abrupt.

3. Devol skid plate and Radiator guards. MX bikes have thinner cases usually...wanted full protection.

4. KIckstand, Barkbusters, Graphics and an hour meter to track maintenance.

5. Keeping the 19 inch on back but running extra heavy duty tube so I can run 10 psi in the woods. Might go with 18 eventually.

6. Have a Rekluse 3.0 on order. It will stall like all 4 strokes and takes 2-3 kicks to get going again sometimes 4-5. You can use the stock clutch but you have to be real good in the super tight stuff.

7. Stock chain is garbage like on most MX bikes. I like the RMATV final drive gold x-rings.

I paid $4000 for the bike and have invested $1200 for a total off $5200 for an almost new woods racer. A new bike wood be at least $7500-$8500 and the 11 has a lot of design features like the new YZ450.

Might invest in the FI tuner but going to ride with the Rekluse and see how it is. It seems a lot of guys put a woods map and like it. I enjoy the hit down low as it suits my riding style. I like that the FI is easy to remap and customize.

The MX platforms handle better and are a lot lighter plus you can run an occasional MX race. If your a competent rider the power can be managed and a 450 will run at a lot lower rpm making the engine last a lot longer.

Hope that helps and good luck.

wow you have a lot of info. Your making me want a newer bike

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  • nsdqnav

Posted February 15, 2014 - 10:39 AM

#11

I ride with a guy who has an 09 and its a nice running bike tried to get him to sell it to me.  I just liked the engine design on the 11 even though the magazines have been hating on it since it was released. A lot of those features make for a good woods bike.



  • crb357

Posted February 15, 2014 - 11:37 AM

#12

nsdq, So how tame can you get yours with FI?

  • nsdqnav

Posted February 15, 2014 - 02:06 PM

#13

I plan to ride it for about three months then see if I need to remap. I have heard the generic woods rider map from Yamaha makes it very linear and smooth. 

 

I have not changed the FI Map because I like it with a lot of grunt down low. I usually ride a gear higher and lug it because this thing has a lot of torque and I find that smooths it out in the woods. You can chug in second and third gear. I guess being a former MX racer I still like the occasional blast out of a corner but you can't ride like that all day on a hundred miler.

 

A novice rider will definitely be overwhelmed with the power on these things but I think beginners should start with small two strokes like a KTM 200xc.  I ride with a beginner who has a 350 KTM and it is too much for him IMO.  Most guys buy too much bike. I used to get some strange reactions when I would pull up on my 150xc but unless it was completely wide open I could run with the big dogs.  Just need to work it a little harder which I think builds riding skills.



  • Hoosier-Daddy

Posted February 15, 2014 - 04:00 PM

#14

My 09 is my first real woods worthy bike. 13/51 sprockets and a gytr heavy flywheel made a big difference, along with suspension work. Easier to keep running and more traction at lower rpm. Usually starts first kick hot or cold. R&D float bowl and dr. D pipe I assume did away with low end bog some complain about stock. I dont race so wheel interchangeability is not really important to me.
I don't feel like I am missing out not having a newer fuel injected model. I don't ride this bike to its full potential or have any complaints. Sure who wouldn't like a brand new shiny bike, but the $ on top of all the $ I would still put into a new is not in my budget.

  • crb357

Posted February 15, 2014 - 06:32 PM

#15

This is when the urge to step into the world of FI is really strong......

I just got finished pulling the carb and reinstalling after going up 1 size on the Main. 4hrs for me with kids running around everywhere arguing and neighbors talking at me while I worked. On the WR, I have to remove side panels, seat, fuel tank, exhaust, rear hydraulic brake switch wires, sub frame bolts, flip up subframe, remove shock, remove the upper engine brackets above the carb, then hot start, unplug something else, remove throttle cables, loosen boots, then I can pull the carb. It really isn't that bad after you do it a few times. Just a lot of stuff going on the WR with wires/hoses/battery etc....

It is also really fun when after I typed the above, I just realized I forgot to put those engine brackets back on. So now I have to go remove the seat and tank again to do that.....

How is the carb pulling process on the 09 YZ450? Can you get to the main and pilot jets without removing the carb? Maybe just remove tank and those engine brackets. Loosen boots and Hot Start, then rotate it to remove the drain nut and access Main jet?

Edited by Singletrack9, February 16, 2014 - 05:14 AM.


  • crb357

Posted February 16, 2014 - 05:18 AM

#16

I just found an 09 cheap. It is quite a drive, but it is exactly what I want. I'm going check it out in the next few days.

I'm waiting for the wife to wake up so I can give her the great news! Ha! She is going to be so pissed......Ha...

  • Hoosier-Daddy

Posted February 16, 2014 - 06:41 AM

#17

I just found an 09 cheap. It is quite a drive, but it is exactly what I want. I'm going check it out in the next few days.

I'm waiting for the wife to wake up so I can give her the great news! Ha! She is going to be so pissed......Ha...


Just dont tell her! Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

  • grayracer513

Posted February 16, 2014 - 08:03 AM

#18

How is the carb pulling process on the 09 YZ450? Can you get to the main and pilot jets without removing the carb? Maybe just remove tank and those engine brackets. Loosen boots and Hot Start, then rotate it to remove the drain nut and access Main jet?

 

  1. Remove the tank
  2. Remove the muffler
  3. Unbolt the air box from the sub frame
  4. Remove the sub frame
  5. Unclamp the air box from the carb and remove it
  6. Remove the shock
  7. Remove the upper engine mounts
  8. Disconnect and remove the carb

 

Assemble in reverse order.  Note steps 4-5.  Put the air box on the carb first and then put the sub frame over that.  Simpler.

 

It can be done with the carb in place.  The main jet isn't bad (unless the main nozzle nut comes out instead of the jet).  The pilot is pretty challenging.  Read: http://www.thumperta...oving-the-carb/

 

The carb won't roll over in place well at all.



  • crb357

Posted February 16, 2014 - 09:21 AM

#19

  • Remove the tank
  • Remove the muffler
  • Unbolt the air box from the sub frame
  • Remove the sub frame
  • Unclamp the air box from the carb and remove it
  • Remove the shock
  • Remove the upper engine mounts
  • Disconnect and remove the carb
 
Assemble in reverse order.  Note steps 4-5.  Put the air box on the carb first and then put the sub frame over that.  Simpler.
 
It can be done with the carb in place.  The main jet isn't bad (unless the main nozzle nut comes out instead of the jet).  The pilot is pretty challenging.  Read: http://www.thumperta...oving-the-carb/
 
The carb won't roll over in place well at all.

Grayracer, you are a very awesome fellow. Thank you so much for your time.

  • crb357

Posted February 16, 2014 - 09:31 AM

#20

Just dont tell her! Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.


Well she was not happy, but I got the ok. I have to get one of those nice propane fire pits for the patio though as part of the deal. Not bad.

Only issue is that I talked to the owner of the bike and I'm third in line. He has two other guys going look at it today. So I should know something tonight. If he still has it, I'll go get it. I hope they don't buy it bc it already has good radiator guards, skid plate, handguards, and rebuilt suspension for woods. Might only need to buy springs, 3 rear wheel bearings to convert my 18" wheel, and FWW, and a bigger fuel tank. That would be killer. I have everything else already.





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