4-strokes the end of mx?



16 replies to this topic
  • GYT-Rider

Posted January 02, 2002 - 06:08 AM

#1

I talked to my local dealer today, and he claimed 4-strokes might be the end of mx. Why? Well he had talked to a rep. high up in the Husquarna company and according to him young kids who enter into the sport of mx buy cheap but pretty realiable 2 strokes. They are cheap to maintain, and if you have to rebuild the engine it is not all that expensive. In some years if the 2 strokes go away these same kids will have to buy a used worn out 4 stroke, and if something breaks or they have to rebuild the engine they don't have the many to do it. And they will perhaps turn to some other sport. This way we will loose a wery important group of the riders = The young and new ones. I must admit I do see his point.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this subject??? :)

YZ426 '01

  • flyinguitars

Posted January 02, 2002 - 06:42 AM

#2

Huh?

  • dirtdad

Posted January 02, 2002 - 08:46 AM

#3

2strokes cheaper to maintain?!? Most guys (and their kids) that I know still racing ring-dingers go through clutches and top-ends like changing socks. Actually they probably change their socks less. I suppose they could also abuse the clutch on a 4-stroke (I don't believe it's necessary though on most of todays offerings) but the top-end on these things will far outlive a 2-strokes!
I guess the cost of frequent oil changes on the 4-stroke can add up. I don't really think the maintenance cost difference (if there is one) is such that it will be the downfall of the sport of MX! Just my .02 cents.

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted January 02, 2002 - 09:11 AM

#4

This thought was probably brought forth by someone that remembers the original Husky thumpers that didnt have an oil pump. Yes Virgina, the old Husky's didnt have an oil pump, they used the ole' splash method, and as for the top end, they relyed on the cam chain to sling the oil into the top end. Personally, I dont think stealing ideas from Briggs and Stratton isnt the way to go. Ive got an XR 600 that has 74000 miles on it. It still wheelies in 3rd. Lets not worry about thumpers wearing out. :)

  • thumpy

Posted January 02, 2002 - 11:22 AM

#5

Let's look at a couple points here:

1. Two strokes are cheap to maintain? What the....? Ask him to define cheap. As mentioned earlier, you've got to change top ends often, very often.

2. Two strokes are cheap and reliable? Define cheap. Does that mean you can buy a 7 to 10 year old machine? If so, let's look at the depreciation ratio of the two stroke versus the 4 stroke. As far as I can see, they appear to be very close in depreciated value and as such will be near the same cost as a 2 stroke given the same time span. This being the case the 4 stroke will be a better value at such time due to the inherent durability of the engine.

3. It's cheap to rebuild the engine? Have you ever had to "rebuild" a 2 stroke? I did and it wasn't cheap. It was $1,200.00 to do my KX250 a year ago (new crank and bearings) and that didn't include the top end.

4. They'll have to buy an old worn out 4 stroke? That's a relative generalization. If you look at many posts of guys that have taken their bikes apart for "winter" service most claim little to no wear of the top end. These machines will in my opinion, be a better machine dollar for dollar given the same period of depreciation therefore, enhancing the value against a 2 stroke by negating the need to do anything to the motor.

Just some food for thought....

  • Shawbridge Husky

Posted January 02, 2002 - 12:47 PM

#6

I can see GYS's point. The same was said when water cooling took over in the early eighties. I remember the cost of bikes going up radically at the time and reading an article in Dirt Bike Magazine on the matter. People are still spending their hard earned cash though. We all need hobbies to stay sane in this screwed up world. :)

  • SoCalWR426

Posted January 02, 2002 - 01:30 PM

#7

Hmmm. Go figure. Heard somewhere that in U.S 2006 no more 2-smokes! Anybody else have info? (except for tracks?)

  • Wyatt

Posted January 02, 2002 - 02:35 PM

#8

Virgina ??

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  • SUnruh

Posted January 02, 2002 - 02:51 PM

#9

SoCal,
dude you already live in a 2stroke banned state!
you CANNOT put a 2stroke motor on ANY lake in the state of california. wake up!
you've already lost not only the fight, but the war!
2006 is the just the begining.
in 2009 it gets worse.

it won't be so much that you can't ride one as nobody (dealers) will be selling them for you to buy.

  • Howard_Huge

Posted January 02, 2002 - 03:31 PM

#10

Four strokes will be as good if not better than the 2 stk in the upcoming years they just have to get the weight down and everyone will be happy.
huge

  • sirthumpalot

Posted January 02, 2002 - 04:13 PM

#11

I personally don't think that the end of 2-strokes is a bad thing. And it's a very good reason for 4-strokes to get more R+D time and money, plus we've all proven that you can have one hell of a good time on a 4-stroke. I think that the original point was that kids could buy a cheap used 2-stroke and if it blew a top end or something relatively minor that it wouldn't be horribly expensive to fix. The other side of that coin is that 4-strokes are (IMHO) much less likely to have these types of problems so hopefully there won't be as many kids having to replace top ends and such. I could personally do without having to breathe all of that smoke at the track anyway. :)

I am very curious about the new Honda 4-stroke jet skis, especially the one with the turbo. Has anyone ridden one of these things? Is there any noticeable lag?

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: sirthumpalot ]

  • GYT-Rider

Posted January 03, 2002 - 12:47 AM

#12

I don't really think 4 strokes will be the end of mx, and I guess the bikes will become even more reliable. The factories are spending huge amounts of $$$ om 4 strokes these days. Just look at roadracing, this year they will use 4 strokes against 2 strokes in the moto GP. And I've read the 4 strokes are smoking the 2 strokes. Maybe my lokal dealer was beeing a bit pesimistic or maybe he was trying to sell me a 2002 RM250.

BTW he claimed ha had talked to Suzuki and they are putting out a RM450F or something in 2003. The engine is supposed to be new and not a DRZ400 with a bigger cylinder. Anyone heard about this?

YZ426 '01 looking forward to 2003 = YZF450??

  • Glen_T

Posted January 03, 2002 - 06:37 AM

#13

I think there is a valuable point to be made about the two strokes. When I bought my 00/426, It was the first new bike I've bought since my parents got me a 1980 XR80. I did my research, took a test ride, expected to get a super reliable and fun to ride bike. What I got was a fun bike to ride, but my YZ is a huge disapointment in the reliability side of the coin. I for one can't afford to maintain the machine. I want to ride, not repair. I for one have plans on selling my YZ and going back to a CR500. The perfectly reliable machine. No top ends, no clutches, no $12 oil filters. I may not be as fast on the track, but I'll be riding, and that is the important thing for me. By the way, I am not a fool who changes oil every 6 months. My maintainence schedule is as good as any. I just have had poor luck with this four-stroke. If it wasn't for the help I've had on this board, I'd have ridden the thing off a cliff some time ago.

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted January 03, 2002 - 05:51 PM

#14

OK This is a little off of the sub. but verrry related!
I would like you guys to check out a couple of web sites!
WEST YELLOWSTONE
AND
MORE NEWS
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST
MOST IMPORTANT SITE!!!

Now for those of you that are saying "what the hell does this have to do with ME?" , this is what it has to do with you!
I grew up only a short distance from West Yellowstone Mt and always had sleds and bikes since I can remember (first bike at 8yrs)(sled at 10)so I have seen the progression of this BULLsCHMIDT especially over the last couple of years.
SLICK WILLY had one last jackass thing to do b4 we kicked his ass out of our house! That is who caused all of that land you used to ride on LEGALLY to now be closed!
For those of you with the rose colored glasses on that are avid Bicyclist/hikers/horsebacker/boater/hunters/etc/etc, the reallity is this.......
First they kick the PWC off of the lakes(california)
Then they kick the sleds out of Yellowstone because of "TOO much traffic for the wildlife and too much emmisions"(But not worry about the same things during the summer when there are thousands of cars emmiting Co2 and Hundreds of Buses PuKINg disgusting Black smoke for MILES to pack around tax paying citizens and forign tourists)
Then they kick out or limit the motorcycles in the desert because of some friggin' WEED! (GLAMIS)not to mention UT/ NV? /MOAB/ GRAND JUNCTION/etc/etc/etc
Then they kick out the mountain bikers because they cause erosion or disturb the mating habits of the wild african purple horned teatsy fly.
Then the horsebackers get to go to court to fight for their right to ride on the taxpayers trails because some friggin'politician stepped in a ROAD APPLE or that horse crap "transports infectious weeds"!!! :D
SEE MY POINT?
here is the best/worst part.
Next is the HIKERS.
They find themselves in court fighting a lawsuit brought on and filed by themselves! :)
The lawsuit states that ALL humans should be banned from wilderness areas and BLM trails because it is UNNATURAL to have HUMAN BEINGS and wildlife intermingal. (I agree with this partially, but only when it involves a politician and beastiality)
So there you have it. That is why you should sign the petition and tell as many of your friends/neighbors/sons/daughters/family to sgn it! :D
You guys probably wonder why I am so passionate with this particular subject.(not like you can tell by my verbage!) I grew up not to far from WYS and have family /many aquaint./friends that will be directly affected by WILD WILLY's BS.
WYS is the snomobile capital of the world and thrives on this business to survive. The summertime tourist rev$ only accounts for a small % of the yearly wages and living of the locals. Not to mention the Manufacturers will be scaled down directly because of this. (On any given day in WYS there are about 3000-3500 sleds avail for rent) How do you think this would affect the manufact. if they didnt sell these 3000 sleds to WYS? So even though I live near Wys and you live in NYC or Jersey or Cali or Az or the great N.W. ...........you ARE affected! :D
Just take a few min and take a look at those sites and especially the petition.
SCHWEW!!!!
ok I am done venting!
sorry to ramble but this whole thing really pisses me off.
I think I will go out to the garage and crack a SILVER BULLET!
PS
I hope that no one confuses my rambling/bitching with promoting 2STROKES but rather promoting FREEDOM and voicing my Tax paying/law abiding VOICE!!(ok ....scratch the law abiding part!!!LOL)
well most of the time!
$.03
G4
thx guys :D :D

  • Boit

Posted January 03, 2002 - 09:34 PM

#15

Hmmm...when I fist slung a leg over a dirt bike many years ago, I was hooked like a junkie on heroin. I didn't care what it cost. Do kids really think in terms of asset-value-added, or do they just want to have a blast? In the long run, 4-strokes don't cost more than 2-strokes. Buying a used dirt bike is a crap shoot anyway so thinking that a used 2-stroke is the route to save money may or may not be the answer. This whole "4-stroke is killing M/X" doesn't wash with me.

Like Flyguitars said...."huh?"

  • Kirtwell

Posted January 04, 2002 - 06:00 AM

#16

I think I'll have to respectfully disagree GTT-Rider
You said in some years a kid will have to buy a used wore out 4 stroke when 2 smokes are gone...Hell i'm dying to find my wife an old XR100 right now.....Go out there and try to find a used Z50 right now buddy....its hard to say the least because everyone keeps them because they are so reliable.
Yeah the bigger bikes get more abuse but you can ride them so much longer on fresh rebuild. I think if you average it all out the money you spend will be the same.
I will never go back to a 2 stroke...I felt like the last YZ250 nickled and dimed me to death. My 426 had been humming great for a year now without any problems or major repair. I can't say that for my buddies that just bought new 2 strokes.
Last point,
A 4 stroke engine is reliable...and in the near future I can forsee the newer bikes coming out with fuel injection and making them even more efficient....I totally promote 4 strokes and the technology that will come with them.

  • Matt406

Posted January 06, 2002 - 07:38 PM

#17

I dont want to see the 2-Strokes go! Now there will be no-one to roost! LOL
Matt





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