Starter motor woes


17 replies to this topic
  • stevethe

Posted January 06, 2014 - 07:07 PM

#1

My sons 09 wr450 appears to have gone through another starter.

 

Haven't seen a rash of starter problems posted. Could there be something weird on this one. The bike isn't anything fancy, FMF pipe, carb mods, grey wire etc, shorei battery.

 

Any opinions on what to look for ?

 

 



  • beairmo

Posted January 06, 2014 - 07:31 PM

#2

I have similar setup. My starter hasn't failed yet but is only good to actual start the f'er about 50% of the time. I crank it over for a few seconds and then go to the kick.

I upgraded the ECU and the e-starting did get better. Still not like my other bikes though.

Sorry I don't have better suggestions.

  • flyandride

Posted January 06, 2014 - 08:24 PM

#3

I have an 09 wr450 also and the starter doesn't always work.  It stops and clicks like it's got a low battery.  I recently adjusted the valves as I haven't had it long and needed to know overall condition.  When I took the exhaust cam out I noticed that the auto decomp pin would stick sometimes as I worked it by hand.  I've heard that the spring can weaken and cause starter problems.  I don't see that spring listed anywhere, the cam only comes as an assembly.  If the spring weakens it could cause the weight to remain in the running position and the pin to be retracted.  I put it back together without changing anything as there's a YZ or Hotcams cam in the bikes future.  



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 06, 2014 - 09:44 PM

#4

It's not the bike, it's how it's treated and set up.

 

If you don't keep the oil clean and fresh, the auto decomp does stick.

 

The stock battery is only going to work if you keep it on a battery tender at all times.

You need a higher rate battery.

 

Next is jetting. If you jetting is correct, it will start in 2 seconds every time.

It can't be 'close', it has to be spot on.

 

I've had a 2003, 2006,2007,2007 again and finally a 2008, which are all essentially the same starting system and they all start immediately and without issue, .....because of proper jetting and a good battery.

 

Here, lemme show you.

A quick run out to the garage.....a quick video....now I will process the video.....

 

...and here it is:

 



  • stevethe

Posted January 07, 2014 - 08:17 AM

#5

Thank you all for the replies and the video !  But it's way worse. I think he is okay with starting the bike with the electric starter. It seems to spin real good, battery voltage was 13.75 volts so it starts pretty fast. Not sure if I removed the sky blue wire for quicker starting. I will check on that.  The problem however is it fried the starters, the armatures were all burnt up. What would cause that the last one lasted two months.



  • woods-rider

Posted January 07, 2014 - 08:43 AM

#6

What Shorai battery are you running? If you got a real big one you could be putting too many amps to the starter which will spin it fast, but will also burn it up quickly.

 

The stock battery has only 130 CCA.



  • stevethe

Posted January 07, 2014 - 08:57 AM

#7

What Shorai battery are you running? If you got a real big one you could be putting too many amps to the starter which will spin it fast, but will also burn it up quickly.

 

The stock battery has only 130 CCA.

 

Ah ha, Thank you woods-rider. It is the higher powered Shorai battery. It spins real fast so maybe a combination of the blue wire removed and the battery ?



  • miweber929

Posted January 07, 2014 - 09:19 AM

#8

Its a small starter that doesn't like to be spun for a long time either, so make sure he's not pressing and holding the button for long durations and not giving it a rest for a few seconds in between tries. No reason that starter can't go the life of the bike if maintained.

Do you have any additional electrical changes in the bike, i.e. stators, regulators, etc., maybe disconnected lights or anything else not "normal"? How's your charging system? Starters will draw what they need start, and should be below what the stock battery is rated for so a higher cranking amp battery shouldn't be causing the issue if the electrical and starting system are working correctly.

My guess is you have a voltage regulator issue, but that's a guess.

Mike

Edited by miweber929, January 07, 2014 - 09:19 AM.


  • DeepPurplishBlue

Posted January 07, 2014 - 09:23 AM

#9

What Shorai battery are you running? If you got a real big one you could be putting too many amps to the starter which will spin it fast, but will also burn it up quickly.

 

The stock battery has only 130 CCA.

 

I have the big Shorai in my WR450 and it works great.   The faster the engine starts the longer these tiny starter motors will last.

 

You will find that the slower the starter turns the more current it will draw and the more stress you will put on the brushes and armature windings

 

Also, never try to start these bikes in gear.  You may be successful once in a while but you are seriously stressing the starter motor.



Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • DeepPurplishBlue

Posted January 07, 2014 - 09:36 AM

#10

Its a small starter that doesn't like to be spun for a long time either, so make sure he's not pressing and holding the button for long durations and not giving it a rest for a few seconds in between tries. No reason that starter can't go the life of the bike if maintained.

 

 

Yes I think 90% of WR450 starter failures come down to improper technique.    You cannot just grind and grind with these starters. 

If the bike is not starting right away, stop pressing the button!   Let it rest while assessing what you are doing wrong and then try

again or use the kick starter. 

 

 

 

 

Starters will draw what they need start, and should be below what the stock battery is rated for so a higher cranking amp battery shouldn't be causing the issue if the electrical and starting system are working correctly.

 

 

This is true...  you could start it from a truck battery with no adverse effects.    The situations where you could have problems caused by batteries

is if the battery is marginal or weak.   You will have a significant voltage drop when you press the button and the current demand of the starter

motor will skyrocket  (ohm's law).   This will quickly burn up brushes and windings.   Also trying to start in gear with the clutch drag... not good!

 

 



  • woods-rider

Posted January 07, 2014 - 09:38 AM

#11

I have the big Shorai in my WR450 and it works great.   The faster the engine starts the longer these tiny starter motors will last.

 

Shorai makes many batteries that have more CCA than the stock battery.

 

210 CCA - OK

500 CCA - NOT OK

 

Saying you have "the big Shorai" doesn't tell us anything.



  • DeepPurplishBlue

Posted January 07, 2014 - 10:01 AM

#12

Shorai makes many batteries that have more CCA than the stock battery.

 

210 CCA - OK

500 CCA - NOT OK

 

Saying you have "the big Shorai" doesn't tell us anything.

 

 

 

There are two Shorai batteries that fit WR450.   There is the 210 and a smaller one, the capacity of which I am not

sure of at the moment.  I think it is close to the stock capacity though.

 

The OP said he is using "the higher powered Shorai battery"      Did you feel the need to split hairs with him also?



  • woods-rider

Posted January 07, 2014 - 11:50 AM

#13

There are two Shorai batteries that fit WR450.   There is the 210 and a smaller one, the capacity of which I am not

sure of at the moment.  I think it is close to the stock capacity though.

 

The OP said he is using "the higher powered Shorai battery"      Did you feel the need to split hairs with him also?

 

You could fit virtually any of the 12v Shorai batteries to the WR450. Just because they only list two, doesn't mean those were the two you were talking about.



  • KennyMc

Posted January 07, 2014 - 12:05 PM

#14

The starter in my '07 lasted until May of '13 with no issues.  I had the jetting changed before I ever rode it and never touched it since.  At first start-up I give it 4 blips before trying the button.  I also have the higher powered Shorai battery for the WR.

 

To go through one in 2 months, something has to be going on.  I don't see how that could be unless one is just letting it crank and crank and crank and it's not starting.  I know someone that loads his bike into the back of his truck by holding down his e-start and walking his bike up the bike ramp.  I thought for sure his starter would be gone by now :smashpc:



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 07, 2014 - 12:57 PM

#15

It sounds like your decompression system is sticking. 



  • stevethe

Posted January 08, 2014 - 08:10 AM

#16

Thank you guys for all the posts. Just to clear up the battery issue. It has the higher powered Shorai that is recommended for a wr450.

 

 The 13.72 volts on the Shorai does not seem out of line I checked my crf230 pit bike and the ballistic battery had 13.92 volts. However I will have to check the voltage regulator to be sure it's not overcharging when running.

 

If the decompression was sticking wouldn't be hard starting or struggling on the starter. However once again if it is sticking it could be an issue.The problem is un Yamaha like.  I have beat up my starters on the other Wr 450's and never replaced one.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted January 08, 2014 - 09:07 AM

#17

Thank you guys for all the posts. Just to clear up the battery issue. It has the higher powered Shorai that is recommended for a wr450.

 

 The 13.72 volts on the Shorai does not seem out of line I checked my crf230 pit bike and the ballistic battery had 13.92 volts. However I will have to check the voltage regulator to be sure it's not overcharging when running.

 

If the decompression was sticking wouldn't be hard starting or struggling on the starter. However once again if it is sticking it could be an issue.The problem is un Yamaha like.  I have beat up my starters on the other Wr 450's and never replaced one.

 

It's strange for sure.

I've never seen a WR starter go out, since 2003.

By chance, do you wash your bike, and then not start it afterwards?



  • stevethe

Posted January 08, 2014 - 12:06 PM

#18

It's strange for sure.

I've never seen a WR starter go out, since 2003.

By chance, do you wash your bike, and then not start it afterwards?

I agree a starter for a wr or most jap bikes last and last.

When he washes it he starts it and even takes it up and down the street. It's something weird.






 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.