cryogenic processing?

10 replies to this topic
  • MikeOK

Posted December 30, 2001 - 05:44 AM


There is a little local shop here that is doing this to machine parts. Have any of you heard of this or know anything about it? Instead of me trying to explain it I will include their link. My 426 is due for a re-build and I was wondering if it would be worth looking into.

  • Chris_Slade

Posted December 30, 2001 - 03:21 PM


Interesting....unless I am mistaken-

In metal machining, a cutting tool is used to remove workpiece material to precise geometry, tolerance and finish. Cutting friction generates significant heat which shortens tool life. Current processes use synthetic oil based cutting fluids for cooling. These fluids are environmentally hazardous and disposing of them is increasingly regulated and costly. Metal chips generated as a machining by-product are considered hazardous because of cutting fluid contamination and are generally landfilled. Moreover, prolonged worker contact with cutting fluids may cause severe dermatitis. (Guess thats one reason my hands are already so dry?)

Cryogenic Metal Machining is a technology which economically addresses the current processes' environmental and health concerns. This process injects liquid nitrogen through a micro-nozzle at the precise location required to cool the tool and the immediate cutting site. Chilling the cutting tool in liquid nitrogen (-320°F) enhances tool hardness and life. Cooling the chip makes it brittle and aids removal. Because nitrogen is an abundant atmospheric constituent and the quantities used are small, there is no unfavorable environmental or health impact nor coolant disposal cost, and the chips are readily recycled.

Sound good? :)

  • Dan_YZF

Posted December 30, 2001 - 08:36 PM



Af far as I know cyogenic processing can have good effect on steel, and better on hardened alloy steel. Due to the allotropic character of iron (Iron change his cristalline arrangment at high temps)

As you heat up steel alloys, a internal stuctural transfomation occur when steel turns cherry red (around 730 degree C)as equilibruim diagram of Fe-C shows, components of steel, ferrite (pure iron)+ cementite (alternate slice of ferrite + cementite) turns out as austenite + cementite at over 730 C.

Austenite is softer than ferrite. Austenite have "face-centered-cubic" "softer" cristal structure than ferrite "body-centered-cubic" structure.

When the parts cool down some austenite doesn't transform back to ferrite in industrial heat treatment allowed process time, this "residual austenite" need cryogenics temps to return to ferrite state.

Many other alloying elements need to be count on before determining how much of residual austenite remains in the part. A good heat treating shop can be of good help for being sure your parts can benefit from cryogenic treatment.

As a rule of thumb, heat treated (read hardened)steel and his alloy can benefit from cryo. Parts like steel sprockets, tranny gear, cams etc.

For other metals than steel and his alloy, in my mind, it need to be prove, as they don't have the allotropic characteristic of the steel. I don't tell it's false but I'd never read anything that prove that, aside of claims from cryo shop.

My 2 cents


[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Dan_YZF ]

  • MikeOK

Posted December 31, 2001 - 11:50 AM


A friend of mine who has talked to the shop owner told me that the cryo process doesn't work well on aluminum. This is about the same information he gave me, except your post was in much more detail. Thanks for the replies...

  • 99400

Posted December 31, 2001 - 11:52 AM


cryogenics treatments ( most common ) in lam-man terms is freezing and cooling under controlled climate..this treatment aligns and eliminate spaces in the molecular structure of best with machined alum. and steels..not used on cast clubs are getting big on this batch prices may come its about 300-400 dollars a batch..also depends on the size of the shops unit..get qoutes and use middle bids seeing as you have no way of checking this 2 cents have a good new year

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: 99400 ]

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  • Boit

Posted December 31, 2001 - 01:06 PM


If you don't mind doing a search, there was an in-depth discussion of this very topic at

There were posts from metalurgists who provided some very technical insight. From what I read, the general concensus was that there are very few parts on a motorcycle that would benefit from this process.

  • yzernie

Posted December 31, 2001 - 05:40 PM


I have some personal insight into this topic that you may find interesting. A friend of mine owns a cryogenic business. I was a disbeliever of the process and he offered to make me a believer.

He tells me to bring items, motorcycle related or not, to him and he will run the through the cryogenic process. Still skeptical, I give him one of my disposable razors (that I usually get two weeks use out of), a 9mm barrel from one of my handguns and an aluminum rear sprocket for my bike.

A week later I go and get them. Still skeptical, I really want to belive what he is telling me.

--The first thing I used was the razor. It did not seem to shave me any closer but it lasted for two months. improvement-300%

--I mounted the aluminum sprocket on my practice rim because I use it more than the race rim. I rode at least 30 times, both track practice and trail rides, on that rim over the course of a year. It showed slight wear but was far from needing to be replaced. improvement-at least 100%

--I shot the gun rapid fire for 45 rounds to get the barrel nice and hot. I then shot 15 more rounds for accuracy. At 25 yards, I placed all 15 rounds within the size of a golf ball. Before the treatment the best I could get was the size of a baseball. improvement-200%

These are three very different types of metal and all showed marked improvement. I have to be honest, although I expected some increase in longevity, I did not expect such a drastic improvement. Needless to say I am now a believer.


[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: yzernie ]

  • Guest_Guest_*

Posted December 31, 2001 - 05:56 PM


Do you think it might work with my KNEE or my FOOT?
I thought of running them thru the process and seein' if it makes my foot last longer than 60miles!!!at a time!
Man this thing still aches after 7months of healing including 7wks in a cast!
I think this may be one of those LIFE LONG injuries!
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ToddW

Posted January 02, 2002 - 06:25 AM


Hey Ernie, sounds very interesting. Is this shop local? I live in Hesperia too, regardless of what this web-site says. Also, do you know of a LEGAL place to shoot? All I've found is the Apple Valley Gun Club, is there a place in the desert?


  • Honda_Guy

Posted January 02, 2002 - 05:41 PM


I won't bore you with how cryo works, but I will tell you that it increases the life span of just about any kind of metal. I haven't heard the neg. stuff on the alum. I know of guys who use it in multi cyl. roadrace bikes that do 35 min races, most of the time right at the limits of max. eng temp. Only water can be used & boiling point is considerably lower in this application. Towards the end of the race is when the power of most bikes fade. A few guys use cryogenically treated motors & seem to reap the benefits. When asked how the bike felt at post race inspections, riders usually comment on how consistent the power delivery was throughout the race. In these instances, most of the consisntecy in power output can be attributed to the cylinders in the cryo motors staying round, reducing blow-by & the power robbing effects. If you're looking for someone to tell you that it works, I can tell you it does from what I've seen. Makes parts less real long too.

  • yzernie

Posted January 03, 2002 - 04:30 PM


Hey Todd,

KPCryo is in Sun City which I think is south of Perris about 10-15 minutes. Believe works.

I usually go shooting west of the I-15 between Dale Evans Pkwy (previously Boulder Rd.) and Wild Wash Rd.. I go back into a canyon there and have never had any problems with any other people or the BLM Rangers. I alway make sure I clean up after myself.


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