2002 wr 426 sound check advice needed.



38 replies to this topic
  • Oouthere

Posted January 05, 2004 - 04:32 AM

#21

About six months ago we lost a great training track with two six feet doubles, a 10' tabletop, two 12' doubles and a few small singles......no better place to train imo. That's besides about 20 miles of trails.

We did not lose this do to noise but due to greed. The property was posted, but only for legal concerns as the owner never cared. People had been riding there for over 30 years with the owner on and off the property. Some kid broke his arm and is sueing the owner. I along with MANY others would like to kick his a$$.

Rich

  • endurodog

Posted January 05, 2004 - 06:27 AM

#22

An interview I saw a few months ago with an AMA guy, he stated the greatest issue facing us in the future is insurance issues. About a month later one of the old races we have in Texas was lost because the landowner was advised by his attorney that the legal risks are to great. The club that ran the race is loosing thier lease to even ride there.
The Las Vegas race way is closing thier MX track for these same reasons.

  • Tom14911

Posted January 05, 2004 - 07:18 AM

#23

Man, My attention span is WAY to short to read those long posts. I don't know about anyplace else but I can assure you that in sunny CA, noise is the #1 issue. If it wasn't why would they lower it? Why are they considering lowering it again? Is it because they want more people to ride?

The bottom line,here, is that people are LOOKING for ways to keep us from riding. They don't care if its the spotted owl, the desert rat or noise. They don't want us to ride. Look up "roadless initiative."

Back to the original post - save up for the Q pipe.

Tom

  • toyota_mdt_tech

Posted January 05, 2004 - 07:37 AM

#24

Tech give me an area that is closed because of sound that I can't ride.



OK, Victor Falls. Means nothing to you, I'm sure you havent even heard of it. It was closed to all 2 strokes, reason was noise. As soon as they heard loud (and I mean obnoxiously loud) 4 strokes, I bet it will be closed indefinitly. Technically, the entire public lands are closed to all loud bikes (over 96db) so apparently, noise is an issue. I agree with you on the endangered species act. They tried to shut down an entire forest because they had planted "lynx" hairs on a scratching post in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest", its a good thing the hairs were tested for DNA and it showed up as coming from an animal in captivity. Lets do everything we can to keep riding areas open, not just looking at one area, but all apects and do your part and educate others to do their parts too. :)

  • Merfman

Posted January 05, 2004 - 07:46 AM

#25

> If it wasn't why would they lower it? Why are they considering lowering it again? Is it because they want more people to ride?

Could it be because there was no enforcement at 103 and they lowered it with relatively no fight from offroaders? I mean, as a kid, if you took a cookie and Mom didn't say anything, wouldn't you try to take 2 next time?

You're 100% right though, they don't want us to ride. Period. Noise is just the closest club in the bag that doesn't seem to get a big fight back. I'm against loud pipes, both on the street and the trail, but I'm convinced it's just another club in the green movement...

Merf

  • endurodog

Posted January 05, 2004 - 08:10 AM

#26

OK, Victor Falls. Means nothing to you, I'm sure you havent even heard of it.



Your correct it means nothing to me, thats why I asked. A search of Google and Yahoo I find numerous websites for the area. Also that it is a popular Mtn Bike area and it's private property. I also see that it is closed from time to time to all users, i.e. xmas time for tree cutting. 1 site says it's still open to dirtbikes, none say it is closed, and none, even the Mtn bike pages, say anything about noise or user conflicts. Sorry I just don't see proof that noise has closed this area.

Technically, the entire public lands are closed to all loud bikes (over 96db) so apparently, noise is an issue.



Exactly what I have been saying, noise is an issue. It just needs to be put in it's proper place. This part gets very complicated. We had a 101 DB limit on public lands, it was lowered to 96 DB. Part of the problem I have with this is that 101 was not enforced. We both know that bikes were running about at 115+. Would we have accomplished the same amount of appeasement with the antis by just enforcing the 101 DB?

This opens the question of what is a fair compromise on sound? At what level of sound can we expect to have motorcycles that perform and keep the complaints at a minimum? Some will complain no matter how low the limit is, they complain about Mtn bikes.

Lets do everything we can to keep riding areas open, not just looking at one area, but all apects and do your part and educate others to do their parts too.



Again, exactly. To say that sound is the only/main reason we loose riding areas directs the efforts away from the bigger picture and we will continue to loose ground.

  • PowerFiend

Posted January 05, 2004 - 09:44 AM

#27

Stealthy exhausts are better. If they can't hear you then they don't think about you. :)

  • tctrailrider

Posted January 05, 2004 - 01:54 PM

#28

As far as me putting a plug in it, not till I see proof of noise being such a problem or people stop making statements about noise closing areas. I don't ever bring up the debate, I respond to others comments.

Edog, my response of "putting a plug in it" is directed at our bikes, not your opinion. Fight on.

  • endurodog

Posted January 05, 2004 - 02:00 PM

#29

Edog, my response of "putting a plug in it" is directed at our bikes, not your opinion. Fight on



In that case I owe you an apology, sorry man was getting knocked around a bit, my bad :D :)

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  • RichBaker

Posted January 05, 2004 - 04:04 PM

#30

racing this season in Hare Scrambles( in CALIFORNIA) and they said they enforce the sound check. Can I stuff more sound proofing in the back. I honestly don't want to spend any more $$$$ to get a new exhaust system.


Try out these guys, haven't tried one but I intend to....
web page

  • kirkw

Posted January 05, 2004 - 05:45 PM

#31

Like you, I live in SJ. I have an older WR that had a stock pipe. Bought it used in Santa Barbara and per my conversation with the seller they definitely do not have the same sound enforcement aggresivenesss we live with in Northern CA. I ride Hollister a lot and called the ranger station and talked to the guys that test. They said that they could not remember a time when a Q did not pass. E series, PMB, GYRT inserts were 60/40 on passing. Made my decision easy and yes it passed easy. Have a friend with a YZ426 that had a WB E series. He played with the discs, but could not pass. Got a Q and passed. Just my personal expeirence. Hope it helps.

  • GIXXER_JAMES

Posted January 05, 2004 - 10:10 PM

#32

WOW, did not expect to get the great debate but one usually gets what one does not expect. Thanks for all the great responses.

I will probably try another insert. I know that a pipe would be the best but I have put easily $3,000 into my bike and after riding my friends 04 KTM 525, this is what I WANT and no more money into my bike. I have broke and replaced so many items and its only a 2002 that you would be amazed. No more $$$$$into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got a warning at Hollister and bike missed by .5. No ticket but he followed me to my truck and watched as I put it on my truck, guess I should consider it a break.

To the other viewers that questioned how I could ride without my insert. VERY EASILY. I don't honestly consider it that loud. If they want to ban anything, I think that wound out two-strokes are much louder and higher pitched than 4-strokes. I ride at Clear Creek owned by BLM 88,000 acres and no civilization for about 40 miles so never worried about sound.

I ride a 2002 GSXR 750 with lots of goodies, like to go to the track :)

  • GIXXER_JAMES

Posted January 06, 2004 - 05:06 PM

#33

Just ordered insert from quiet power in Arizona, I will post results on the board when I get it and have it sound checked.

james

  • lbxr

Posted January 11, 2004 - 08:05 AM

#34

Heres your Blue Ribbon Coalition. I have no idea what this means: :jawdrop:Don Amador, western representative for the BlueRibbon Coalition, said, "Since the American Motorcyclist Association is going to a 96dBA limit for all of their non-closed course public lands events in 2004, I think it is important for riders to get their bikes into compliance with the new sound laws." "With the availability of high performance aftermarket exhaust systems such as the new FMF Q series or 'quiet tip' inserts for stock mufflers from Pro Moto Billet, Baja Designs and original equipment manufacturers, there is no reason for OHV owners to have loud bikes," Amador stated.

"If off-road hero, Malcolm Smith, and enduro-pro, Randy Hawkins, can operate motorcycles that are below 96dBA, then the average rider can do the same. Be a hero yourself and get quiet. The future use of trails on public land depends on your action," Amador concludes.


October 2003 :)

  • lbxr

Posted January 11, 2004 - 10:47 PM

#35

More Blue Ribbon propaganda. Clearly this guy does not understand that loud bikes resulting in closures is a "myth".

Don Amador, western representative for the BlueRibbon Coalition, said, “With local counties cracking down on loud dirt bikes operating on both public and private lands, I think it is important for riders to get ahead of the curve and be proactive on the sound issue.”

“It’s a proven fact that operating quieter OHVs on private and public lands will, in fact, help preserve our riding opportunities. The vast majority of riders I meet at these events are more than happy to comply with the new sound regulations if that is what it takes to keep our trails open,” Amador stated.

“American Honda has an education program called ‘Stupid Hurts.’ It encourages OHV enthusiasts to act responsible when riding on private and public lands. I think that program includes riders being stupid by riding a loud dirt bike or ATV. It’s time to get quiet and ride smart,” Amador concludes. :)

  • Brian_in_Long_Beach

Posted January 11, 2004 - 11:53 PM

#36

I got a warning at Hollister and bike missed by .5. No ticket but he followed me to my truck and watched as I put it on my truck, guess I should consider it a break.


I would have told the guy to retest it. There is a tolerance on the result and the dB testing has so many variables that a .5 dB is in the 'noise' - yes, the horrible pun is intended. The human ear picks up 2-3dB changes so a .5dB is not even noticable to most people.

2 stroke exhaust noise doesn't travel as far - it's shorter wave lengths that get absorbed/reflected/dissapated in a much shorter distance than a 4 stroke sound wave. Marin County Motorcycle Association hasn't had too many noise complaints until the advent of the modern 4 stroke and the wonderful loud exhaust....

I did my police academy EVOC training at the Sonoma County Airport site and can't imagine how the bikes would draw the ire of the neighbors and the autocrossers wouldn't. Oh, wait a minute I can - the bikes are probably louder since they're a closed course race bike and the porsche's are street cars (at least my friends is).

Endurodog - how exactly would one go about 'proving' to your satisfaction that a county supervisor received a call from a constituent, called the airport manager and told him to never allow motorcycle events again? I'm willing to bet that there aren't any transcripts of those calls available under the freedom of information act....

Brian

  • endurodog

Posted January 12, 2004 - 07:03 AM

#37

Endurodog - how exactly would one go about 'proving' to your satisfaction that a county supervisor received a call from a constituent, called the airport manager and told him to never allow motorcycle events again? I'm willing to bet that there aren't any transcripts of those calls available under the freedom of information



Those decisions usually take place at a public meeting with minutes that are public record. KevXR was able to find info on the closure in Oregon and provided it. Again this isn't a dirtbike area, it's an airport but I'll play along if you can find it. You say they called the airport manager telling him not to allow motorcycles. Was noise the problem? Did they not have the proper permits? Are they anti motorcycle? What is the real issue if this did take place?

I have found plenty of evidence of the millions and millions of acres of closed areas that are not related to noise issues. Why is it so hard to find evidence of noise closures? I'll answer, because it is such a small issue compared to the other issues. Notice I didn't say it wasn't an issue at all, I said small issue compared to others.

The BRC is pushing it as a big issue without providing evidence of the problem. It's just what the enviromental groups do to push their cause. Say "the sky is falling, join now or we are all doomed!!!" Hey its a great tactic to get members but the evidence doesn't support the problem. You don't see this same line from other orgs supporting our sport, they put the noise issue in a more realistic light. Now I will say this the BRC has moderated thier message on noise in the last 4 or 5 months. But their website is still full of all the things they are doing on noise without any articles confirming noise as a problem.

  • Brian_in_Long_Beach

Posted January 12, 2004 - 11:33 AM

#38

endurodog,
I was not part of the group that got shut out of the airport so I don't know exactly what happened but based on the description of lnxr it sure doesn't sound like there was any public discussion over the future of m/c events at the airport.

The races you said RMEC lost due to environmental &/or financial reasons: Did you lose only the race or the entire riding area? If you lost a riding area was it private or public?

I agree with you that noise is not the 'only' issue that is used to close riding areas but it IMO it is the one that sways joe citizen to the green side. For most of us if an activity doesn't affect us directly we could care less. In this case, joe citizen doesn't see a bike causing any enivironmental issues because he's not close enough to see it. BUT sound waves carry a lot farther than any of us can see...... It's a shame that we as a community thumbed our noses at the 101dB limit and as a result have to abide by a new lower of limit of 96dB in CA (94 in Mich?). I don't know what scientific data backs the 96dB limit - probably none - but IMO 96dB is a reasonable number for balancing the needs of our community and the desires of the those that just don't want to hear us when they are using OUR public lands. Of course, some won't be happy until motorized use is banned....

RE: Loud pipes save lives: Then why do LE/EMS vehicles get hit when running code 3? Other drivers are oblivious and your pipes don't make any difference besides pissing off the driver you just passed while lane splitting or the homeowner/cafe owner who you just disrupted by trying to 'save your life'. If you have to wear ear plugs because of your own exhaust it's too loud. To use endurodog's methods - show me any verifiable proof that a collision was prevented because the rider was heard due to the 'loud pipes'.

Brian

  • endurodog

Posted January 12, 2004 - 12:11 PM

#39

The races you said RMEC lost due to environmental &/or financial reasons: Did you lose only the race or the entire riding area? If you lost a riding area was it private or public?




We have lost some areas totally and some just the race part of. Some private and most public.

I wish the 101 would have been enforced before they dropped it to 96DB. There was good equipment to get you to 101 and still get pretty good performance. No doubt that 101 is louder than 96 but does it really prevent complaints? I don't know but I doubt it. Now the difference between 115 and 96 is a large amount. People were running around with these 115DB systems before the 96 DB system were required. I would like to know if there are less complaints now with the new law. That would be a bottom line issue in this whole discussion but I'm not sure how to get those numbers.

I for one don't buy the "Loud pipes save lives" line. I think its an argument created after people decided they liked the sound of loud bikes. Kinda justification after the fact.




 
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