These forks!?! 2014 YZ450...

Yamaha YZ450F 2014

87 replies to this topic
  • delmas

Posted February 13, 2014 - 09:57 AM

#61

That would be a ridiculously expensive approach to take when one could simply revalve the thing. 

One  difference between  the 14 and the 10-13 is the Midvale is a little bit different .It has a bleed hole.

If you can do the work yourself the parts are not that much.The rebound piston runs around 30.00 $A cartridge rod complete with piston and shims installed is around 150.00

Anyway we know the Yamaha slipped up on the 14 forks.If  anyone needs KYB parts let me know.



  • grayracer513

Posted February 13, 2014 - 10:24 AM

#62

If  anyone needs KYB parts let me know.

Why is that?



  • Greg Pennsiltucky Lykens

Posted February 13, 2014 - 03:51 PM

#63

I just talked to Coppersmith racing about new Ohlins forks and shock, since I ran the stuff on the 2012 bike.  That stuff doesn't fit the 2014, so I asked him about the new KYB  stuff on the YZ 450, 2014. He told me it is pretty damn good! Said it is really good out of the box.

 

Reason I asked, is I rode a 2014 bike with revalved suspension on it The suspension shop, who I will not name, totally engineered the new forks and shock with their own stuff.  Why?  

 

I thought the bike was horrible.  He rode my Ohlins bike and wanted the damn stuff! He said he never rode a bike so good.  I asked him if he ever rode the stock stuff and said "No".  

 

Why does everyone think the the 2014 YZ needs  needs new guts in the bikes suspension?  KYB is probably the best stock stuff out there.

 

For what it is worth, I got the Ohlins  to try, but as I said before in other posts, it didn't make me hardly any faster. I would have spent better money on lessons learning the new style of riding with your balls on the tank , like these young kids ride.  I did think the best attribute to the bike was steering with the Ohlins on it though.  Does turn nice....

 

Just my 2 cents



  • NitrousR1

Posted February 13, 2014 - 04:18 PM

#64

I don't think it needs new pistons or internals at all. Just a better shim stack. Id work with the 2014 pistons.
I'm sure the stock fork stack would be great for a fast pro A rider. But for the other 95 percent of us it is harsh. Nothing more then a simple revalve is needed.

  • Greg Pennsiltucky Lykens

Posted February 13, 2014 - 04:40 PM

#65

I don't think it needs new pistons or internals at all. Just a better shim stack. Id work with the 2014 pistons.
I'm sure the stock fork stack would be great for a fast pro A rider. But for the other 95 percent of us it is harsh. Nothing more then a simple revalve is needed.

gottcha.  

 

I am getting my TTX ohlins machined so they will accept the larger axle of the 2014.  I haven't rode the 14 yet.  Too much snow.  I would probably like the 14 stuff then.  I run .51 in the Ohlins.  I like a firmer ride. Better on jumps and stuff. Not as springy.  Goes through the whoops better stiff also.

 

Thanks



  • Mutley53

Posted April 01, 2014 - 09:47 PM

#66

I finally got around to servicing my forks yesterday on the '14 yz 450. Overall I have been really happy with the bike except for a couple little things. The "chirping" fork has always annoyed me and the harshness on acceleration / braking bumps.

Factory calls for 335 cc in the o.c., with a working range from 300 to 355. On my bike the right had 300 cc and the left had 260. There have not been any seal leakage and I didn't spill a drop while dumping them out. I went back with 335 cc and man are these forks stiff now. Good news is the chirp appears to be gone.
So maybe if your having problems dialing these things in it would be worth it to service them even though the bike is new. I wont know how I like them at this oil level till I can get to the real track but on my little practice area the seem really firm...FIRM.


I finally got around to installing softer springs (I'm vet B, 162 lbs) on my 2014. Out of curiosity, I drained the outer chamber fork oil into a graduated cylinder. Surprisingly, I got 270 cc out of one fork and 275 out of the other. I did not spill any nor have I had any leaks. The oil stuck to the springs and tube walls couldn't have been more than 10 cc per fork. That is quite a bit less than the spec in the manual of 330 cc. The forks felt good, just stiff, with no hard bottoming. I reassembled with the lighter springs and 330 cc oil. I have not spent much time dialing in the forks, so I'm still uncertain if lighter springs will be better for me.

  • savagex

Posted April 02, 2014 - 10:11 AM

#67

I am looking at getting a '14 YZ 450, but this thread has me concerned. I just dealt with a very harsh '13 RM.

 

Has anyone improved the performance with an aftermarket suspension shop? Enzo, Race Tech...



  • swaldrop

Posted April 02, 2014 - 10:41 AM

#68

I am looking at getting a '14 YZ 450, but this thread has me concerned. I just dealt with a very harsh '13 RM.

 

Has anyone improved the performance with an aftermarket suspension shop? Enzo, Race Tech...

Don't let this thread scare you away. After all of the changes I have made, I believe what I needed most was simply time. The forks now feel just as plush as my '11 did and I have even started turning in the compression a little since, depending on track conditions. They just took longer than normal (or so it seemed) to break in.

 

That being said, there is a lot of good info in here which will help you get dialed quicker. Just don't write the forks off until you have at least 7 to 10 hours on the bike.



  • 3carmark

Posted April 02, 2014 - 06:29 PM

#69

I'm confused I'm old mx guy we used to"modify"fork oil to get the action we wanted ie changed viscosity

Can't you work at it that way?

:ride:



  • grayracer513

Posted April 03, 2014 - 06:53 AM

#70

Changing viscosities does almost nothing to modern suspension.  If the damping were done only by fixed orifices in the fork, it would change things, but most of the work is done by valve stacks that are essentially pressure regulators, and simply open farther to accommodate thicker oil. 

 

In fact, the difference between most 3-5wt suspension oils hot and cold is greater than the difference between a 3wt and a 7wt.  The only things truly affected are the clicker settings, since those actually are fixed orifices. 

 

The KYB SSS fork is VERY sensitive to adjustments in oil level in the outer chamber, though, and as little as 10cc per side one way or other can make a noticeable difference in the feel of things.



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  • Cyclemedic

Posted April 09, 2014 - 09:01 PM

#71

Sounds like your forks are binding. Try re-installing the front wheel with correct sequence and torque specs.

  • NitrousR1

Posted April 10, 2014 - 02:45 AM

#72

They could be even from new. I check the bikes I PDI with my motion pro fork alignment tool and some are off. Most are less then 1 mm but I did have a ktm that was nearly 3 mm off.

It's worth checking but these forks are very harsh. A member just posted the shim stacks over on the suspension forum

  • VetRacer75

Posted May 09, 2014 - 06:27 PM

#73

They could be even from new. I check the bikes I PDI with my motion pro fork alignment tool and some are off. Most are less then 1 mm but I did have a ktm that was nearly 3 mm off.
It's worth checking but these forks are very harsh. A member just posted the shim stacks over on the suspension forum


I had to get my 14 revalved, to be happy.
For the forks Even with all the 4 clickers backed right off it was defiantly still too harsh in the mid stroke mainly.
The shock presented similar problems with the rebound as my 11 stock, to get it close to where I was happy I was right in with the rebound and nearly right out with the compression.
Although I have gone up 2 spring rates my suspension tuner said I was close with my findings, and these are the traits he is finding with the new model.

  • jnabuurs

Posted May 10, 2014 - 02:08 AM

#74

I think your rear sag is to much tuis makes the forks to harsh and your compression adjuster is setup to soft this makes the fork harsh also because the valving will not open with such a leakhole .

  • NitrousR1

Posted May 10, 2014 - 05:09 AM

#75

I'm glad you got it figured out vetracer. Every one I have rode and worked on has been extremely harsh. Even for a National racer of mine.
I believe they are setting them up this harsh to make the front end feel planted. This addresses the old complaints with the 10-13 bikes.
For anyone with a 14 I'd install a zip Ty on your fork leg and sees how much travel your really using. Ideally you want a small reserve or a "soft" bottoming on the biggest hit on your track. That way your using all 12 inches

  • Joe_Jet

Posted May 13, 2014 - 03:22 AM

#76

This is weird. I like the forks stock, but find the shock a bit too harsh. I am a 165lb vet nov. I have been racing the bike at most of the SoCal tracks. I have settings now that are pretty good and raceable, but am considering trying a slighty softer shock spring. I think we have 5.8 nm 5.9 kg stock and looking for a 5.7 kg. i believe the 14 250F has the slightly softer spring so that would be great to find one to test.

  • NitrousR1

Posted May 13, 2014 - 09:06 AM

#77

This is weird. I like the forks stock, but find the shock a bit too harsh. I am a 165lb vet nov. I have been racing the bike at most of the SoCal tracks. I have settings now that are pretty good and raceable, but am considering trying a slighty softer shock spring. I think we have 5.8 nm 5.9 kg stock and looking for a 5.7 kg. i believe the 14 250F has the slightly softer spring so that would be great to find one to test.

What's your shock clickers set at. Id imagine your rebound is very far in like all the other Yz shocks. The low speed rebound is too fast therefore you have to run the clicker in.
The further the rebound clicker is in the less flow & less free bleed you get which makes compression stiff.
The cure for that would be to revalve the shocks rebound stack. It needs more low speed rebound damping, anywhere from 2-4 36.3 mm shims. This will get your clicker farther out and allow more free bleed - softer compression.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 13, 2014 - 09:23 AM

#78

What's your shock clickers set at. Id imagine your rebound is very far in like all the other Yz shocks. The low speed rebound is too fast therefore you have to run the clicker in.
The further the rebound clicker is in the less flow & less free bleed you get which makes compression stiff.
The cure for that would be to revalve the shocks rebound stack. It needs more low speed rebound damping, anywhere from 2-4 36.3 mm shims. This will get your clicker farther out and allow more free bleed - softer compression.

 

I agree with this completely, except that it may take more stiffening than that, if it's like any of the earlier models.  The other problem with running the rebound cranked down tight is that it throws off the relationship between the high and low speed rebound damping.  By the time you've beefed up the low speed, the high speed becomes excessive and you'll start "packing down" the rear wheel in whoops and such. 

 

The front end will actually become more stable by slowing up the rebound, too, in many cases, because the back of the bike will stay where it belongs; down behind the front.



  • VetRacer75

Posted May 14, 2014 - 02:05 AM

#79

I'm glad you got it figured out vetracer. Every one I have rode and worked on has been extremely harsh. Even for a National racer of mine.
I believe they are setting them up this harsh to make the front end feel planted. This addresses the old complaints with the 10-13 bikes.
For anyone with a 14 I'd install a zip Ty on your fork leg and sees how much travel your really using. Ideally you want a small reserve or a "soft" bottoming on the biggest hit on your track. That way your using all 12 inches


Thanks, after another ride yesterday I'm close to close to the ideal. Funny you mention that travel, because the forks with standard springs and valving on the same hard pack track, I had less travel than with 2 spring rates higher and a revalve.
That has to tell you the valving stock is way to stiff.

  • crf917rider

Posted May 22, 2014 - 02:56 PM

#80

Changing viscosities does almost nothing to modern suspension. If the damping were done only by fixed orifices in the fork, it would change things, but most of the work is done by valve stacks that are essentially pressure regulators, and simply open farther to accommodate thicker oil.

In fact, the difference between most 3-5wt suspension oils hot and cold is greater than the difference between a 3wt and a 7wt. The only things truly affected are the clicker settings, since those actually are fixed orifices.

The KYB SSS fork is VERY sensitive to adjustments in oil level in the outer chamber, though, and as little as 10cc per side one way or other can make a noticeable difference in the feel of things.


Grey im changing my springs (stiffer) if u can believe that ,what would u recommend for fork oil height and brand





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